[Archived] Barack Obama

[thenodrog]

I think it's all part of evolution theno.....

Why do you think the Brazilians are so good at football? Why, the perfect blend of African, Portugese and Dutch footballing talent of course.

You forgot the massive influence of native South American's! Ooops.

When my Gran was younger terms like Darkie & Nigger were acceptable, does that mean we should still be allowed to use them?

Allowed? WTF?

Otherwise... certainly Manc. And particularly so as long as terms like 'whitey', 'honkey' and white nigger are deemed OK.

He won't change the US-Israeli relationship.

He won't make any major reform to the health system.

It's unlikely he makes any radical changes to the education system.

The focus of the troops will most likely change, but overall goals and casualty numbers probably won't, nor will the threat level significantly decrease.

The US will be looked at differently for a 6 month honeymoon period until the rest of the world figures out that not much has changed.

American youth will sleep soundly in their beds with the feeling that they have changed the wolrd for the better and that their futures are safe and that they can forget about politics for another four years.

Those are several predictions for the next few years that I think will still be true come 2012.

I was annoyed by being accused of being racist, ignorant or a right winger simply because I thought McCain might do a decent job. I wish him the best of luck obviously, but part of me wouldn't mind seeing some very public, if minor, cock-ups just so that some smug b***tards I know can shut up for a while.

Strange statement from a self confessed member of the communist party eddie.... but anyway I'm sure that you rem I did once say that you would change and become more sensible as you got older.

[Eddie]

Theno, I would love to see a true socialist take charge of the United States. I would love to see an improvement to the education system, higher taxation for the wealthy (more severe than what Obama will put in place, if he even does), universal health care, a more regulated economy (which would have gone a long way to preventing some aspects of the current crisis) and that is to name just a few things. Unforunately, whilst I may see a black, latino, female, green...president of the United States in my lifetime, I won't see a true socialist. As a result of that I like to see the democrats in power, but the president I see as a choice between the personality rather than the politics. There remains something about Obama that I just don't quite trust, he comes across as a bit of a slick-dick and I can't put my finger on it but I do think that he knows how to oil the cogs and he has done it well and has a lot fooled. As I said, I hope that he does a good job, but I have my doubts. I'm still as far to the left as I ever was, but I don't expect America to ever reach that point.

To be honest, part of what annoyed me about both Obama and his supporters is that they openly refer to themselves as socialists when they think it looks good.

[dave birch]

That's a fair point, Eddie.

If the Democrats were stand for election in any other country, they'd be viewed as very right wing and those on the left of centre side wouldn't even consider voting for them.

There might be a bit of tinkering on the sides in the US, but I doubt there'll be any major change along the lines that you describe. He'll start to bring the troops home, but other than that, I can't see anything major. He has to get round some very very strong lobbies.

[neekoy]

Tax the wealthy

Hi Eddie,

Can you please elaborate on how you would do this? Change from capitalism?

[ultrablue]

I was thinking this morning what major changes, other than war, has a recent US president implemented?

Perhaps the only significant one I can think of is in education when schools were opened up to all races.

Hmmm...... maybe you weren't thinking for that long.

If you want changes in domestic policy look at Texan Democrat LBJ's "Great Society" and Medicaid. George HW Bush's War on Drugs and "Reaganomics"

Then there was the abortion rights Supreme Court decisions of the 1970s, the decisons not to act in the African genocides in the 1990s.

For someone who is getting annoyed about the coverage of the race issue in this election, it seems strange that you cite the end of racial segregation in schools only 50 years ago as the only major change in America in recent times!

Anyway, the end of de jure racial segregation in schools came in a 1954 Supreme Court decision, not by then president Eisenhower.

Something that you cannot ignore and that our American posters have been talking about is the system that balances the powers of the president against two other branches of government

The Supreme Court is one example. The president appoints justices, the houses ratify and the justices make their rulings. Reagans choices of nominations as president had a direct effect on the 2000 election decision on florida's vote.

Americans realise that Obama will not change things quickly or drastically. In fact the mere idea of him doing so scares them stiff.

The democrats controlling the houses for the next two years at least will make a significant difference to Obamas first few policy decisions. However, still don't expect him to get an easy ride.

I don't think the election of Obama is being over-hyped. In fact everything Ive seen and read so far has been talking about how this will be the shortest honeymoon period for a president in recent times. It is, however, a momentous victory for change in that voters looked past race. He has been given a huge mandate for change, something that has not been given to a president in his first term for years. He has motivated swathes of the demographic that have not been included in politics before.

As for Eddie saying Obama called himself a socialist when it suits him, I don't think an candidate would use that word at any time about themselves. The only time I heard it in this election was when Colin Powell defended Obama against the McCain campaigns use of it.

[philipl]

Ultrablue, agreed with your post and particularly your points on the use of the word socialist.

Interesting, I would be fascinated by how many Mccain supporters deriding Sweden and France have been to either and what they'd give to enjoy the healthcare systems of either of those countries.

The rescue package which Brown and Darling put together which stopped the daily runuaway implosion of the banking system and the Americans eventually implemented at the third time of trying to do something is in fact a Swedish invention.

This Times article on the four major changes in America that conditioned it to make the Obama victory possible seems to be getting a wide degree of agreement from other commentators.

The closing line that the Republicans had to chose a maverick because mainstrem Republican politics are no longer a winner explains why Palin has enormous problems of electability. To the extent there is a mainstream of Republicanism (and the huge popularity of her rallies compared with McCain increasingly addressing two-thirds empty stadiums attest) she is now mainstream for all her self-projected maverick-ness.

[dave birch]

Hmmm...... maybe you weren't thinking for that long.

If you want changes in domestic policy look at Texan Democrat LBJ's "Great Society" and Medicaid. George HW Bush's War on Drugs and "Reaganomics"

Then there was the abortion rights Supreme Court decisions of the 1970s, the decisons not to act in the African genocides in the 1990s.

For someone who is getting annoyed about the coverage of the race issue in this election, it seems strange that you cite the end of racial segregation in schools only 50 years ago as the only major change in America in recent times!

Anyway, the end of de jure racial segregation in schools came in a 1954 Supreme Court decision, not by then president Eisenhower.

Something that you cannot ignore and that our American posters have been talking about is the system that balances the powers of the president against two other branches of government

The Supreme Court is one example. The president appoints justices, the houses ratify and the justices make their rulings. Reagans choices of nominations as president had a direct effect on the 2000 election decision on florida's vote.

Americans realise that Obama will not change things quickly or drastically. In fact the mere idea of him doing so scares them stiff.

The democrats controlling the houses for the next two years at least will make a significant difference to Obamas first few policy decisions. However, still don't expect him to get an easy ride.

I don't think the election of Obama is being over-hyped. In fact everything Ive seen and read so far has been talking about how this will be the shortest honeymoon period for a president in recent times. It is, however, a momentous victory for change in that voters looked past race. He has been given a huge mandate for change, something that has not been given to a president in his first term for years. He has motivated swathes of the demographic that have not been included in politics before.

As for Eddie saying Obama called himself a socialist when it suits him, I don't think an candidate would use that word at any time about themselves. The only time I heard it in this election was when Colin Powell defended Obama against the McCain campaigns use of it.

Ultra, thanks for taking the time to reply, it is appreciated.

We're talking about a 40year timespan, so I think that that's long enough to generate some kind of significant change

Tell me, what happened to LBJ's great society, it was hardly a policy that had enduring benefits for the poor of America. Medicaid, when Clinton (was it?) tried to push this further got stymied. (one of the points Hilary wanted to push with I believe)

I do note that there are difference between the president and the senate and congress, even though they may be of the same political persuasion, and that, to some extent is good, but not entirely foolproof.

I think that an American version of Socialist, is somewhat diifferent from a European and even an Australian version. As I said somewhere, Obama would be regarded as very right wing in places like the UK and Australia and would not be voted for by those that are proclaiming him to be the new messiah.

[ultrablue]

Tell me, what happened to LBJ's great society, it was hardly a policy that had enduring benefits for the poor of America. Medicaid, when Clinton (was it?) tried to push this further got stymied. (one of the points Hilary wanted to push with I believe)

Here's some more of my time then dave,

A president implementing legislation and it having any lasting effect are two seperate things. Few would argue with the political skill of LBJ's domestic policy making. That it didn't have "enduring benefits" is a differnt arguement.

Did segregation in schools stop in 1954? Of course not. When Johnson created Medicaid, was it perfect? As we see now, it wasn't. Yet they had profound effects at the time and did change lives.

[dave birch]

Ultra, I take your point, but from an overseas viewpoint, these were things that were not improved on, in fact one could say that subsequent administrations pared them back.

Whilst I think that Obama is an improvement, the proof will be evident in four years or so, and whether any following presidents/administrations is willing to continue with that policy.

I'm not arguing with you, it's just my point of view, given what I know of what happens there, apropos what happens here.

[ultrablue]

Agreed. But to say that Obama is over hyped is ignoring most messages coming from the pundits both in America and world wide, and ignoring that we are talking about an American election- no oppourtunity for nationwide hype is overlooked or toned down.

[philipl]

There are two aspects in which Obama might have a dramatic impact:

- After chucking $750bn at the banking system and letting a banker (Paulson) allow the banks pretty well to do as they pleased with the gift, the American Treasury is hardly going to flip when Obama sticks a New Deal type of Keynesian stimulus onto the books. The impact of what was created by the 1930s New Deal is still being felt in America to this day from the infrastructural projects created (just ask any visitor to Las Vegas!) to countless millions of American families who have a capital inheritance today because their grandparents were not financially annihilated as a result of the New Deal creating work they could do and gave them a base from which they could build in better times.

Obama and the Democrat-controlled Houses of Congress have made the environmental and investment legislation so central to their election cause that I cannot see them failing to get that stuff through and the money being spent within the next two years before the mid-term elections.

- After a vacuum of four years' without any American leadership worthy of the name, there is now an American leader the world is instinctively turning to for leadership. For all the ills of the world, it is a long time since an American leader had so much political capital to spend (whilst having so little relative economic and military capital admittedly).

The Republicans tried to run a lot of fear campaigns that Obama was more radical and not what he seemed to be. McCain simplistically tilted at the Ayers windmill which was the biggest non-story of all time but there is enough in Obama's past to suggest his smooth non-controversial Presidential campaign hid a capability to take a radical change in direction when he has carefully considered all the evidence and potential outcomes.

If Obama is the supreme politician on the world stage that he has proven on the American stage, he could make a lot of changes and redefine and reposition many global debates relatively free from domestic checks and balances.

[dave birch]

Agreed. But to say that Obama is over hyped is ignoring most messages coming from the pundits both in America and world wide, and ignoring that we are talking about an American election- no oppourtunity for nationwide hype is overlooked or toned down.

The expectation has been put in place, just as when our new prime minister was elected. There's a feeling of euphoria, an expectation of change, immediate change, and when it doesn't happen disappointment, disillusionment sets in. Look at the UK, Blair gave so much hope, and ask any person on here how they feel now, ten years on. This is what Obama is going to have to overcome, to avoid.

[dave birch]

If Obama is the supreme politician on the world stage that he has proven on the American stage, he could make a lot of changes and redefine and reposition many global debates relatively free from domestic checks and balances.

I know it's obvious, but philpl, did you really say that?

Words like "supreme politician on the World stage", "proven", "relatively free from domestic checks and balances".

For one, his "checks and balances" will be decided in the boardrooms of the American multinationals. Their bottom lines will dictate much of what he says and does.

I would have thought that you would have been able to work that one out, philip.

[broadsword]

Is he really a "supreme politician"?

Apparently he's pretty inexperienced.

Let's see what happens after the sound bites ...

[Rovermatt]

To be honest, part of what annoyed me about both Obama and his supporters is that they openly refer to themselves as socialists when they think it looks good.

I don't think they've ever referred to themselves as socialists, what with it being a big vote-loser and all.

Anyway, whatever one's reservations about Obama ('I just don't trust him'), I think he is in fact best described as 'African-American'. He matches that term perfectly - his father was African, his mother was American. In addition to this, he looks black, has an exotic name, is married to a black woman, has black kids, used to be a black community organiser (I bet Sarah Palin isn't sneering about that today while licking her wounds) and...well, again, looks black. Any talk about his white DNA is, to a certain extent, moot. Countless black Americans have some white overseer or owner's blood in their veins (Malcolm X was highly vocal about his own racial heritage) yet they remain 'authentic' members of their community. There's no escaping it and anyone pretending that the election of such a person to the most powerful office in a country only a couple of generations removed from slavery (and even less removed from Jim Crow) isn't remarkable is kidding themselves.

He won't do all the things that he's said he will, and indeed he's a lot more conservative than the GOP wants him to be, yet the significance of this event of undeniable.

[philipl]

On the basis that a politician's competence is judged by whether they get elected or not, we have got a guy of unusual background who held no elected office ten years ago who is President of America elect today.

If that is not a supreme politician, I don't know what is.

[AussieinUk]

Is he really a "supreme politician"?

Apparently he's pretty inexperienced.

Let's see what happens after the sound bites ...

Thank you Bryan.

The act of someone getting to the white house after four years in senatorial service maybe a supreme effort, but his performance as a politician, is yet to be judged.

[broadsword]

Maybe there was just no competition? I mean, look who he was up against.

I suppose by definition he is a supreme politician, because he is top of the pile. I haven't looked into his background too much, but apparently it's quite modest.

I remember thinking things would all change for the better when Blair got in, I soon became disenchanted when I realised he was all hype. I remember being chuffed to bits when Clinton got in, he proved to be an azzhole as well.

Until Obama starts actually doing something, then I will not even be cautiously optimistic, I will just regard him as all hype.

I just have a complete mistrust of politicians.

[philipl]

Sorry twelve years between first elected post and being elected President. A description of his background in the Times.

We have to see how he does but unlike his predecessor, Obama is much better equipped tempramentally and intellectually. A huge challenge is going to be his selections of people around him- something W repeatedly got monumentally wrong.

[broadsword]

A baby rhino would've been better equipped than GW Bush. And the man just surrounded himself with neo-cons, I'm sure from his point of view, he didn't get that wrong.

Quite worrying in a way that Colin Powell endorsed Obama.

I'll reserve judgement for now, although I must admit to being very cynical. I don't care if he was born on Mars and raised by tigers, if I don't like his policies, I'll say so, with no prejudice.

although surely, he's got to be better than Bush. The world will breathe a sigh of relief when he goes.

[pg]

Obama is a supreme orator, with fantastic speech writers and brilliant campaign managers.

However, he's very young and inexperienced.

As opposed to McCain, who is a good speaker, who has competent speech writers, awful campaign management but who has a proven track record in both leadership and politics.

As much as I'd love to keep my head in the clouds w.r.t Obama... there is something about him that screams Tony Blair.

I agree with Bryan... there was much hollering from the rooftops when Clinton got in as well. However, he still bombed and invaded countries at the drop of a hat.

Even despite the recent financial hicccups...all politicians from all sides of the spectrum march to the beat of the free-market drum. This inherently limits the amount of change they can actually implement.

[AussieinUk]

Obama is a supreme orator, with fantastic speech writers and brilliant campaign managers.

However, he's very young and inexperienced.

As opposed to McCain, who is a good speaker, who has competent speech writers, awful campaign management but who has a proven track record in both leadership and politics.

As much as I'd love to keep my head in the clouds w.r.t Obama... there is something about him that screams Tony Blair.

I agree with Bryan... there was much hollering from the rooftops when Clinton got in as well. However, he still bombed and invaded countries at the drop of a hat.

Even despite the recent financial hicccups...all politicians from all sides of the spectrum march to the beat of the free-market drum. This inherently limits the amount of change they can actually implement.

Off topic, but where have you been pg?

[Rovermatt]

Edit.

[philipl]

Twelve years ago- I corrected it at post 347.

Just scroll down to the video clip and run it. This is hilarious- the urgent school boy style reporter at the Arizona Hotel where McCain conceded being quizzed by O'Reilly who doesn't know how to handle what he is hearing as his political heroine is being trashed by his own news channel. Just imagine how O'Reilly would have exploded in indignation if Joe Biden was exposed at not knowing which countries are in North America and whether South Africa was a region of a country called Africa!!!

[Rovermatt]

Twelve years ago- I corrected it at post 347.

Thus my edit.