[Archived] Barack Obama

[philipl]

Both online at the same time!

Obana's life story from the Guardian

[Wiggy]

He won't do all the things that he's said he will, and indeed he's a lot more conservative than the GOP wants him to be, yet the significance of this event of undeniable.

I'm not sure I follow you Matt, why would the Republicans want him to be less conservative? So there will be a mainstream backlash against him?

[pg]

Off topic, but where have you been pg?

I'm back in Oz now.

[colin]

Both online at the same time!

Obana's life story from the Guardian

I read that earlier today and was rather uplifted by it. He seems to have an affinity with people & at least has travelled the world a bit, rather unlike the cosseted, oil-rich, current incument.

My fingers are crossed for the future.

[thenodrog]

Forty years ago blacks were officially second class citizens in many US states, so this is a momentous election victory.

Only a dimwit would see it any other way, or make tenth rate remarks about 'dual heritage' or whatever's annoying them right now.

So as you have clearly thought this issue through....... Obama is clearly not black, so how do you think the first non-white president will affect the future of the USA and the world in general Paul?

[philipl]

I can see that Obama is as white as Gordon Brown.

Must confess I enjoyed the barb about the "Wassila hillbillies" from some snobbish GOP grandee about the Sarah Palin clan. The British do snobbism well but have a way to go compared with some of the American "old moneyed" types who of course are mere third generation arrivistes in reality.

The clips of the morning after vast Palin family entourage getting ready to depart Arizona for Alsaka were something else. There in Phoenix' grandest hotel lobby were Sarah perched on the end of a settee with her Mum and Dad. Dad at least four times larger than his petite pretty daughter wearing an ill fitting tent of an orange t-shirt and faded green bermuda shorts. ("Gone to Arizona from Alaska so its gonna be shorts and t-shirt weather- what's a presidential candidate's election night dignity got to do with it?").

Not entirely surprising that after stopping Palin from giving her own concession speech, $300K earringed Cindy and John McCain high tailed it out of the hotel to their ranch (after attempting to poison the old biddies of the Arizona Republicans with free supply of Bud Light- yuk) rather than stay the night and be around for the Palin clan's morning after.

[tony gale's mic]

So as you have clearly thought this issue through....... Obama is clearly not black, so how do you think the first non-white president will affect the future of the USA and the world in general Paul?

The man comes from a mixed race background but if you saw him on a bus or on a train you would almost certainly describe him as black. In pre civil rights America he would have been segregated on the black side. Since his final years of high school he has consistently identified himself with the black community, working on projects with the black community, going to black churches and marrying a black woman.

He is black in every way apart from his mother's background.

[colin]

So as you have clearly thought this issue through....... Obama is clearly not black, so how do you think the first non-white president will affect the future of the USA and the world in general Paul?

Catch yourself Theno, the world has just seem the USA elect its very first black President. You may be fussing over the detail of his skin colour. A lot of the rest of us are saying "Thank you USA for electing a president who seems a decent bloke."

[thenodrog]

The man comes from a mixed race background but if you saw him on a bus or on a train you would almost certainly describe him as black.

He is black in every way apart from his mother's background.

Wouldn't that assumption be deemed racist by some?

btw

"He is black in every way apart from his mother's background."

Catch yourself Theno, the world has just seem the USA elect its very first black President. You may be fussing over the detail of his skin colour. A lot of the rest of us are saying "Thank you USA for electing a president who seems a decent bloke."

Not me it's every bgugger else that is dragging it up at every opportunity.

[AussieinUk]

Haven't see this posted on here, but I certainly found it quite amusing...

Palin and her understanding of world geography

"Palin is said to have been puzzled about Africa and did not realise it was a continent not a country. She is also thought to believe South Africa was a region of that 'country'."

[philipl]

The New York Times summed up the contribution of Palin's VP candidacy to collective intelligence as "we now know the difference between a moose and a caribou".

[Rovermatt]

I'm not sure I follow you Matt, why would the Republicans want him to be less conservative? So there will be a mainstream backlash against him?

The GOP has been painting him as some sort of rabid socialist. He's not however and their hopes that his apparently evil (not to mention inevitable) tax and spend policies will bring voters back to the Republican side may well go unfulfilled. The Grand Ole Party is in a right ole mess at the moment and it'll take a lot more than Obama's record to change the electoral map.

Wouldn't that assumption be deemed racist by some?

No. It's not racist to assume someone's black when they actually are. You're the one who seems to be quibbling over the details.

[dave birch]

Come on Matt, if he were standing for election in your country, there's no way you'd vote for him, he's too far to the right.

[Rovermatt]

Come on Matt, if he were standing for election in your country, there's no way you'd vote for him, he's too far to the right.

I don't follow. I probably would vote for him.

[dave birch]

So you'd vote for a party that has its politics to the right of the tories?

[philipl]

Traditional right/left is meaningless these days.

Political positioning is on two axes:

Economic- Regulation/De-regulation

Social- Authoritarian/Liberalisation

Obama is just about in the Regulation/Liberalisation quadrant

The GOP is in the De-regulation half but socially range from authoritarian (religious right) to libertarian verging on anarchy (hillbillies). That is a bit of a problem for them when it comes to re-building a winning coalition.

[dave birch]

philipl, you may be right in the US, where Democrat is right, and Republican is even further right; but in the anglo world, there is still a distinction.

There are still parties that say they are left/centre/right, and people still vote along those lines. The right in the UK is far to the left of the right in the US.

Yes, to those who might think it strange, that's the way it is. If you ask, I might even explain cricket.

[broadsword]

I'm not so sure about the UK.

Labour is most certainly not traditional left of centre, that is absolutely for sure.

The Tories? I really don't know, but I'd say they're to the left of where they once were. Definitely in teh centre ground probably right leaning.

You couldn't really get a tissue-paper between the two parties.

[dave birch]

bryan, I'm comparing Obama to the politics in the UK (and Australia).

They have no NHS, nor would they introduce such a scheme. Clinton (I think) tried to introduce something, but got wiped on it.

If Obama tried to introduce a tory manifesto in the US he'd be gone in a flash. Far to far to the left.

[Eddie]

Matt, the significance of the event isn't really the point. If people voted for Obama simply because he was black, which I'm sure many did, then they voted for the wrong reasons. It's not that I don't appreciate the significance of the moment and I am sure for older black people in America it must be something quite amazing, but to vote for him because he is black is nearly as bad as to not vote for him for the same reason.

Many of Obama's supporters see themselves as socialists, mainly on the back of his planned reforms to the tax system, but that is really the only thing he plans on doing that looks even vaguely like it could fit into a socialists agenda. If he had called himself a socialist it would have been a major vote loser with middle America and the older generation, but I can certainly tell you, as I have many friends who were heavily involved in his college projects, that it was a term that was well used and encouraged with American youth. He realised that he had a generation, like the young always are, eager to carve out their own identity and show that they aren't simply a clone of previous generations.

I think less needs to be made of his public speaking as the credit there really goes to the writers. Sure, he delivers it well, but why don't we just find the next candidate in Hollywood then? It's not like he's Lincoln scribbling on a paper on his way to Gettysburg.

I don't think he'll really deliver on many of his policies and there won't be much change apart from what the face of the man looking into the camera looks like and I think that could disillusion young America quite a bit; that is, if they even bother to pay attention to what their messiah does.

bryan, I'm comparing Obama to the politics in the UK (and Australia).

They have no NHS, nor would they introduce such a scheme. Clinton (I think) tried to introduce something, but got wiped on it.

If Obama tried to introduce a tory manifesto in the US he'd be gone in a flash. Far to far to the left.

You're quite right, he'd never be elected over here and we wouldn't like him very much if he stood. Just compare him to Sarkozy, who was really elected as an "American" politician, even he would never dream of touching the health or education system and his reforms to the labour market have hardly turned it into the American system. Of course, there is the fact that you have to pick your plan for your market and maybe his beliefs would be quite different if he were running in the UK or France.

[Amo]

The Italian Prime Minister has been blasted for his blundering welcome of the US president-elect after he praised Barack Obama's "suntan".

Silvio Berlusconi made the comment at a joint press conference with Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev.

"I will try to help relations between Russia and the United States where a new generation has come to power, and I don't see problems for Medvedev to establish good relations with Obama who is handsome, young and suntanned," he said.

*facepalm*

[Flopsy]

[Rovermatt]

So you'd vote for a party that has its politics to the right of the tories?

I'm not sure they do. However, the left/right axis in America is different from the left/right axis here.

[thenodrog]

You couldn't really get a tissue-paper between the two parties.

That psychological word association game comes to mind.

Toilet paper .... bum cheeks ........ politicians all in the centre ...... arseholes.

[thenodrog]

Matt, the significance of the event isn't really the point. If people voted for Obama simply because he was black, which I'm sure many did, then they voted for the wrong reasons. It's not that I don't appreciate the significance of the moment and I am sure for older black people in America it must be something quite amazing, but to vote for him because he is black is nearly as bad as to not vote for him for the same reason.

Exactly eddie.

btw ....If I'd said that there'd be another page of insults already.