[Archived] Barack Obama

[Eddie]

No, I don't think so. To vote for someone because of race will be viewed as wrong by almost anyone. Sadly, I think many were persuaded that they weren't doing so and that race "wasn't an issue", even though it clearly was. You can't tell me that such a high percentage of black america voted for Obama because they agree with his policies.

[philipl]

No, I don't think so. To vote for someone because of race will be viewed as wrong by almost anyone. Sadly, I think many were persuaded that they weren't doing so and that race "wasn't an issue", even though it clearly was. You can't tell me that such a high percentage of black america voted for Obama because they agree with his policies.

Eddie, what you are completely failing to understand is just how recent segregation and the need for the Civil Rights Movement is.

Just suppose everybody called Eddie only 40 years ago had to sit at the back of the bus, could not legally marry 80% of all women, had second rate education and couldn't get served in most bars and restaurants. Also many roads were very unsafe for Eddies to travel along because there were nasty gangs of Philips waiting to kill them.

Now, all that is history put people called Eddie know what happened to them and it took a long time before Eddies were really accepted and cut get whatever jobs they wanted and live in whatever homes they wanted and take part in politics freely. Now if an Eddie stood for election as President for the USA, don't you think you'd probably vote for him?

This is different to a simple gut reaction to skin colour.

[thenodrog]

Just suppose everybody called Eddie only 40 years ago had to sit at the back of the bus, could not legally marry 80% of all women, had second rate education and couldn't get served in most bars and restaurants. Also many roads were very unsafe for Eddies to travel along because there were nasty gangs of Philips waiting to kill them.

Now, all that is history put people called Eddie know what happened to them and it took a long time before Eddies were really accepted and cut get whatever jobs they wanted and live in whatever homes they wanted and take part in politics freely. Now if an Eddie stood for election as President for the USA, don't you think you'd probably vote for him?

This is different to a simple gut reaction to skin colour.

I'd wager there are plenty of roads that the Philips wouldn't dare walk down in the good ol US of A too!

Dare I also add Philip that by supreme irony your description above could be applied to the situation of living in a country run under Sharia law today never mind years ago! Even worse as democratic govt is usually outlawed there is no mechanisation for the downtrodden voting for change, so the Obama situation would simply never happen.

Why is there so much guff spouted perpetuating the myth that racism is a one way ticket? I may be proven wrong but according to early reports there is a strong suspicion that racism is the reason that there is a 15 year old boy fighting for his life in hospital today after suffering severe brain damage from being badly beaten up by 2 or more on King St just last week whilst walking home from a Halloween disco. Unfortunately and to the increasing embarrassment of police and authorities in Blackburn this sort of thing has been going on for years.

[tony gale's mic]

I'd wager there are plenty of roads that the Philips wouldn't dare walk down in the good ol US of A too!

Dare I also add Philip that by supreme irony your description above could be applied to the situation of living in a country run under Sharia law today never mind years ago! Even worse as democratic govt is usually outlawed there is no mechanisation for the downtrodden voting for change, so the Obama situation would simply never happen.

Why is there so much guff spouted perpetuating the myth that racism is a one way ticket? I may be proven wrong but according to early reports there is a strong suspicion that racism is the reason that there is a 15 year old boy fighting for his life in hospital today after suffering severe brain damage from being badly beaten up by 2 or more on King St just last week whilst walking home from a Halloween disco. Unfortunately and to the increasing embarrassment of police and authorities in Blackburn this sort of thing has been going on for years.

Noone says racism was a one way thing did they?! Who says that sort of thing is any better than a bunch of white people beating up an asian person? But what does this possibly have to do with Obama's victory and events in America?

That sort of thing you described is despicable but it's individuals. Slavery, segregation, these were things which were deemed acceptable by the establishment which in the space of a generation (when it comes to segregation) have been absolutely blown apart.

You seem absolutely desperate to bring Muslims into every argument when theyre not even relevant. I wonder why....

[tony gale's mic]

And additionally, the black people didnt just vote Obama because he was black, although I'm sure this did play a role in some peoples' minds. Had it been Colin Powell standing against a white democrat (maybe a John Edwards, Hilary being a woman may confound certain voting patterns) then I have little doubt Edwards would have won.

There would have been some black people voting for Powell because he was black, but the vote for Obama was a vote against the Bush administration too which much of the black community felt had let them down so badly during Katrina. I don't know my American history inside out but I'd wager that the black population has probably never felt as let down by an administration since the days of the civil rights movement. Additionally if one looks at black voting patterns over the years they always go for the democrats:

Edwards would have got more of the white vote than Powell in this situation too, so to say Obama's race played a massive role in his victory is inaccurate IMO.

[thenodrog]

You seem absolutely desperate to bring Muslims into every argument when theyre not even relevant. I wonder why....

1. Just pointing out the irony of overdone and frequently misplaced sentiment.

2. Relevance? Although Barrack Obama has joined some Christian church of late he is a muslim isn't he? Albeit according to unclear and mixed reports his early life was spent in a wahhibist madrassa in Jakarta (although the BBC suggest a christian education ). Maybe we should find out whether he swore his oath of allegiance on the Q'uran rather than the Bible or would that carry no relevance to you either?

3. I see racism / bigotry / colour prejudice nearly every single day in Blackburn from one source or another but I've haven't seen an American here in over a decade.

From now on may I respectfully suggest that you put me on ignore tgm.

No. It's not racist to assume someone's black when they actually are. You're the one who seems to be quibbling over the details.

50:50 is a significant detail imo.

[American]

I'll take Eddie's predictions with a grain of salt after the one before the election when he said it would be close!

[Rovermatt]

2. Relevance? Although Barrack Obama has joined some Christian church of late he is a muslim isn't he? Albeit according to unclear and mixed reports his early life was spent in a wahhibist madrassa in Jakarta (although the BBC suggest a christian education ). Maybe we should find out whether he swore his oath of allegiance on the Q'uran rather than the Bible or would that carry no relevance to you either?

Are you serious? This myth has been perpetuated by the GOP and its myriad surrogates for about two years and has been disproved time and again. Obama is not a Muslim, he's never been one, and he was not sworn in on the Koran (Dick Cheney swore him in on C-Span, I think we'd have heard about it if he used anything other than the Bible). Every reputable news source has stated that Obama's school in Jakarta is not a madrassa. While I generally disagree with everything you write, I've always believed it to be at least lucid. However, this is really out there.

50:50 is a significant detail imo.

But he's black. Look at him! At what reduced level does your white DNA have to be before you can be described as anything other than black? As I said before, countless black Americans have white blood in them.

No, I don't think so. To vote for someone because of race will be viewed as wrong by almost anyone. Sadly, I think many were persuaded that they weren't doing so and that race "wasn't an issue", even though it clearly was. You can't tell me that such a high percentage of black america voted for Obama because they agree with his policies.

Black Americans always vote Democrat. The high turnout may well be attributed to Obama's race, however the general state of the country and the deeply unpopular Bush cannot be played down as equally compelling factors.

[tony gale's mic]

1. Just pointing out the irony of overdone and frequently misplaced sentiment.

2. Relevance? Although Barrack Obama has joined some Christian church of late he is a muslim isn't he? Albeit according to unclear and mixed reports his early life was spent in a wahhibist madrassa in Jakarta (although the BBC suggest a christian education ). Maybe we should find out whether he swore his oath of allegiance on the Q'uran rather than the Bible or would that carry no relevance to you either?

3. I see racism / bigotry / colour prejudice nearly every single day in Blackburn from one source or another but I've haven't seen an American here in over a decade.

From now on may I respectfully suggest that you put me on ignore tgm.

50:50 is a significant detail imo.

According to Republican smear reports he went to a madrassa..according to others he didn't...but Obama is most definitely not a muslim. Not that it would matter one jot if he was, but considering he smoked marijuana and did cocaine at high school I very much doubt he was praying five times a day. He joined a Christian church in the early 90s..hardly of late is it? And it's still irrelevant...the racism and segregation people speak of was against African-Americans, not muslims. You can bleat all you want about how he's half white, yes he is, but that wouldnt have mattered in some areas of the US right up until the onset of the Civil Rights movement.

Swearing in on the Qu'ran? That really takes the cake

I see no reason to put you on ignore, ignoring ignorance is not the way forward.

May I recommend you actually try leaving Blackburn every once in a while, it's little wonder you have such a narrow minded view of the world when irrelevant anecdotes (however tragic they may be) are all you can bring to the discussion.

btw..This made me chuckle

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

US President-elect Barack Obama would never have become the British Prime Minister because of "institutional racism" in the Labour Party, the head of Britain's equality watchdog has claimed.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, told The Times: "If Barack Obama had lived here I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power within the Labour Party."

Lets all have a Black Prime Minister eh...its all the rage now you know!

How utterly boring and sadly predictable.

[Billy Castell]

It is typical that when something like this happens someone has to say 'It won't happen here because we're all oppressed by the white man.' This whinging and blaming someone else for your problems gets on my tits. There are racists with a variety of skin colours, but to say that a black, Asian or whatever non-white minority you care to mention automatically has a multitude of extra hurdles put in place by a racist system is just wrong. I'm sorry but their is a Muslim Lawyers Association, but no Middle Class White Lawyers Association. If you want to be the best work hard at it and don't demand special treatment because you are not white.

This message probably makes no sense, but I hope the general tone is intelligable. I can't be bothered to rejig it.

[thenodrog]

According to Republican smear reports he went to a madrassa..according to others he didn't...but Obama is most definitely not a muslim. Not that it would matter one jot if he was, but considering he smoked marijuana and did cocaine at high school I very much doubt he was praying five times a day. He joined a Christian church in the early 90s..hardly of late is it? And it's still irrelevant...the racism and segregation people speak of was against African-Americans, not muslims. You can bleat all you want about how he's half white, yes he is, but that wouldnt have mattered in some areas of the US right up until the onset of the Civil Rights movement.

You and matt are jumping down my throat because a quick google search came up with differing reports. So why did your myopic viewpoint not allow you to see that I gave equal credence to the BBC report tgm?

btw dont get steamed up cos rem I did request that you to put me on ignore.

But he's black. Look at him! At what reduced level does your white DNA have to be before you can be described as anything other than black? As I said before, countless black Americans have white blood in them.

You can bleat all you want about how he's half white, yes he is,

You two need to confer....... Make your minds up!

Admin / Mods.... Maybe we should have a mboard poll to help em!

[tony gale's mic]

You and Billy are jumping down my throat because a quick google search came up with differing reports. So why did your myopic viewpoint not allow you to see that I gave equal credence to the BBC report tgm?

btw dont get steamed up cos rem I did request that you to put me on ignore.

You two need to confer....... Make your minds up!

Not getting steamed up, I could have put you on ignore if I wanted to, but I find people of your ilk fascinating in a strange way, especially when you have the gall to call others myopic.

You called Obama a Muslim when, madrassa or no madrassa, he quite clearly isn't. The reports I've seen indicate its unlikely he went to one anyway, but either way hes never practiced Islam in his life and became a Christian almost two decades ago. So for you to come out with him swearing on the Qu'ran is absurd to say the least. You say these things and then wonder why people call you bigoted.

Okay, I'm going to spell this out for you.

1. Obama has a white mother and a black father.

2. Obama has spent much of his life embracing his black heritage, working with black communities, going to an African-American church and marrying a lady who descended from slaves.

3. Whether his mother was white or not, Barack Obama in the early 60s would have been treated as a second class citizen in many US states. This is why this election is so significant, that little over a generation later, people are seeing him being elected to the most important job in America and the world.

[Billy Castell]

How have I jumped down your throat Gordon? I was complaining about those who want special treatment because they are not white.

[Rovermatt]

You two need to confer....... Make your minds up!

We're not the same person. What's your point?

US President-elect Barack Obama would never have become the British Prime Minister because of "institutional racism" in the Labour Party, the head of Britain's equality watchdog has claimed.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, told The Times: "If Barack Obama had lived here I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power within the Labour Party."

Lets all have a Black Prime Minister eh...its all the rage now you know!

How utterly boring and sadly predictable.

Well if the UK did have a black PM, no doubt it would be as a result of a the proper democratic process. Just like in the US.

[thenodrog]

How have I jumped down your throat Gordon? I was complaining about those who want special treatment because they are not white.

Sorry Billy... Check my original post I meant matt and edited it soon after posting. Too late though to prevent tgm quoting it.

[thenodrog]

You called Obama a Muslim when, madrassa or no madrassa, he quite clearly isn't. The reports I've seen indicate its unlikely he went to one anyway, but either way hes never practiced Islam in his life and became a Christian almost two decades ago. So for you to come out with him swearing on the Qu'ran is absurd to say the least. You say these things and then wonder why people call you bigoted.

With an islamic father and an islamic stepfather and an atheist mother I find that an incredible statement from you tgm. I'd have said that it's almost certain that he was educated into Islam to some degree. So how could you possibly know for certain? Most on here would have only just heard of the fella 12 months ago, so what are you his Godfather? Close family friend perhaps? Or are you one of those strange people that believe everything politicians say?

This was my original point gleaned from a quick google search. I quoted 2 opposing views so I'm hardly peddling falsities in order to score cheap points am I?

2. Relevance? Although Barrack Obama has joined some Christian church of late he is a muslim isn't he? Albeit according to unclear and mixed reports his early life was spent in a wahhibist madrassa in Jakarta (although the BBC suggest a christian education ). Maybe we should find out whether he swore his oath of allegiance on the Q'uran rather than the Bible or would that carry no relevance to you either?

The swearing in bit was rather tongue in cheek I guess. I'd picked that up on one of the internet sites that I'd googled and couldn't resist. But what the hell, it's obviously false.............. cos he's still alive.

[tony gale's mic]

With an islamic father and an islamic stepfather and an atheist mother I find that an incredible statement from you tgm. I'd have said that it's almost certain that he was educated into Islam to some degree. So how could you possibly know for certain? Most on here would have only just heard of the fella 12 months ago, so what are you his Godfather? Close family friend perhaps? Or are you one of those strange people that believe everything politicians say?

This was my original point gleaned from a quick google search. I quoted 2 opposing views so I'm hardly peddling falsities in order to score cheap points am I?

No but all accounts of his high school years in Hawaii hardly point to an Islamic lifestyle. In his books he's stated that his father and stepfather were not religious, and this seems to tally with the fact that they married a white woman who didn't need to convert to Islam, as is often the case in these situations So yes, I think it is unlikely he was a practising Muslim. Even on the off chance he was educated into Islam (which would be very strange in a largely Atheist household), he left for Hawaii at the age of 10, and most people would only really class someone as consciously practising a religion as someone who was in their teens.

[Rovermatt]

With an islamic father and an islamic stepfather and an atheist mother I find that an incredible statement from you tgm. I'd have said that it's almost certain that he was educated into Islam to some degree.

Obama has stated that his father and grandfather were confirmed atheists. The description in his first book of his grandfather is very interesting. He never knew him but all reports he gleaned from his family characterise him as a man with a superior intellect who had no time for the dogma of any religion, let alone Islam. There is absolutely no proof that Obama was ever educated in the Islamic religion. Everything else is pure conjecture. He spent a mere four years in Indonesia (attending a Catholic school for some of it) and met his father once. He was raised by his Protestant, mid-western grandparents in Hawaii.

You should read Dreams From My Father. It's actually very interesting and significant since it was written before Obama had ever run for elected office.

[blue phil]

On the basis that a politician's competence is judged by whether they get elected or not, we have got a guy of unusual background who held no elected office ten years ago who is President of America elect today.

If that is not a supreme politician, I don't know what is.

That applies to Hitler even more so - if you swap the USA for Germany

He was a decent orator as well .......

Also many roads were very unsafe for Eddies to travel along because there were nasty gangs of Philips waiting to kill them.

I'd like to totally disassociate myself from this comment ....

[American]

I think Mark Cuban summed up the importance of Obama's victory as this:

"In a single day of voting, our amazing country once again reinvigorated the dream that any child in this country, no matter what circumstances they are born into, can grow up to be anything they want, including President of the United States."

[rover6]

Why does it matter if Obama is a Muslim? (Talking hypothetical here because all the reports I have read make it almost certain to my mind that he is not).

If he keeps his religion private, not enforcing it on others, then does it matter which tolerant deity he seeks for spiritual solace? I know the prejudiced and idiotic will disagree but if it is not affecting anyone else, then why worry? Surely, a private-Muslim running America is better than a Christian fundamentalist who admits that God told him to invade Iraq?

Unless, you believe that Obama is actually a fundamentalist Muslim with grand proselytising plans, in which case, I can understand your concern over about Obama.

On a different note, I certainly think that Obama's achievement is a huge milestone for social equality in America but he was such an outstanding candidate, surely comfortable conclusions about a new epoch can't be made. Obama came across as humble but decisive, extremely intelligent but plain-spoken, patriotic but open-minded and so on. He was such a good candidate - in fact, me thinks a once in a generation type, maybe even more rare.

Black people in America will know that they've finally found equality when a black version of George W Bush secures two terms as President. When a narrow-minded, unsophisticated and privileged black man stutters his way to the top, the real epoch has started.

[thenodrog]

Why does it matter if Obama is a Muslim? (Talking hypothetical here because all the reports I have read make it almost certain to my mind that he is not).

If he keeps his religion private, not enforcing it on others, then does it matter which tolerant deity he seeks for spiritual solace? I know the prejudiced and idiotic will disagree but if it is not affecting anyone else, then why worry? Surely, a private-Muslim running America is better than a Christian fundamentalist who admits that God told him to invade Iraq?

Unless, you believe that Obama is actually a fundamentalist Muslim with grand proselytising plans, in which case, I can understand your concern over about Obama.

On a different note, I certainly think that Obama's achievement is a huge milestone for social equality in America but he was such an outstanding candidate, surely comfortable conclusions about a new epoch can't be made. Obama came across as humble but decisive, extremely intelligent but plain-spoken, patriotic but open-minded and so on. He was such a good candidate - in fact, me thinks a once in a generation type, maybe even more rare.

Black people in America will know that they've finally found equality when a black version of George W Bush secures two terms as President. When a narrow-minded, unsophisticated and privileged black man stutters his way to the top, the real epoch has started.

Hmmmm I wonder if from now on the first necessary requirement for every future president be that he is a half caste atheist? Might make good sense.

Sorry edit.... I've already upset 560% of the population by not saying 'he / she'.

[Guest Kamy100]

Why is there so much guff spouted perpetuating the myth that racism is a one way ticket? I may be proven wrong but according to early reports there is a strong suspicion that racism is the reason that there is a 15 year old boy fighting for his life in hospital today after suffering severe brain damage from being badly beaten up by 2 or more on King St just last week whilst walking home from a Halloween disco. Unfortunately and to the increasing embarrassment of police and authorities in Blackburn this sort of thing has been going on for years.

Looks like racism is not the reason the 15 year was attacked:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/...ino_Hargreaves/

[tony gale's mic]

Looks like racism is not the reason the 15 year was attacked:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/...ino_Hargreaves/

Don't let the truth get in the way....