[Archived] Pennant

[philipl]

You forgot to mention United are going bust.

From the Times 29 July 2008:

Essentially the debate as to whether the Glazers have been good or bad for United is still raging and so I though we should have it all out in the open....

As far as I am concerned it is black and white. They have been all bad. I can barely find a good thing to say. And I find that the good things people do have ot say is usually either things others at the club have acheived at the club despite them, or is just mis-informed.

Of course the club has done fantastically since they took over- 2 league titles and a European Cup is simply beyond our wildest dreams. However, did the Glazers help or hinder?

Rumour number one - the Glazers have invested millions of pounds and the signings purchased with their money helped win trophies.

Truth - Any money United have spent on players has not come from the Glazers, it is borrowed money from banks that still has to be paid back. And it is the fans who pay it back with ridiculous ticket price increases or 50 minute waits to get through to the ticket office on expensive phone lines as the staff have all been sacked to save a few bucks. The Glazers are also struggling with their debt payments, putting the whole future of the club at risk. Last year United announced record profits, but all except £3m left the club (from another company called Red Football Ltd) to pay back some of the interest. So United made £3m in the last last year despite having won the league and without hardly spending a penny on players (Nani, Anderson and Tevez are yet to be paid for and Smith, Rossi etc all brought funds in) and still barely broke even. If we spend money on players and don't win trophies the finances will look dangerous worrying, especially with banks panicking over the credit crunch and AIG in serious financial trouble.

Rumour number two - The Glazers have spent more on players than the club could have done as a plc.

Truth - By being taken off the stock exchange United have saved about around £40,000 a year by not having to print annual reports (so the fans are even more in the dark now than before) and around £10m in share dividends. But instead of share dividends our interest payments are over £64m a year. Thats £54m extra a year leaving the club than it did before - hardly good for investing money in players. The first summer of the Glazers we made a profit- taking Keano off the wage bill and selling Obi Mikel and Ruud more than paid for Carrick, and last year's players have not been fully paid for by any means yet. The sales of Smith and Rossi provided £15m of the money we did pay upfront.

Rumour number three - United's ticket prices are still reasonable.

Truth - under the Glazers a system has been introduced called the Automatic Cup Scheme. This forces all season ticket holders (most of the tickets in the ground) to sign up to a direct debit to purchase all home cup tickets. That means supporters, many of whom could barely afford 19 league games at the prices the Glazers have introduced, had to sign up to another 8-10 games a year at these new prices. Most of the seats in the main stands are now £44 (£49 for non members if you cannot afford a season ticket and want to chose to apply game by game) which works out at around £1200 a year including an average amount of cup games. More than most seats at Arsenal or Chelsea. Baring in mind we have the largest stadium and the highest revenue from performance related payments (ie winning trophies) surely we should have the cheapest tickets in the league?

Rumour number four - the Glazers care!

Truth - as soon as the Glazers came in at the club they cut the largest supporters trust in the country (over 30,000 members) and the independent supporters association out of the loop. They were not permitted to have representatives at the 'fans forum' (which discusses important issues such as content of the now very expensive matchday programme or the flavour pies on sale) and cut of all official communication. What business/ football club does not talk to its most loyal fans? As for explaining the debt, the Glazers gave one pre-recorded and scripted interview on MUTV shortly after buying the club in which their only comment was 'debt means different things to different people.' Well. in Manchester it means it needs to be paid back.

In summary- they take more money out of our club than ever has been taken out before, supporters are putting more in than ever before, they have no intention of speaking to supporters, ticket prices are getting worse every season even compared to other clubs, and when the debt needs to be paid back the team and supporters will all suffer. Should things look even bleaker, the whole club is in jeopardy with 9 times more debt than Leeds ever had and sponsors such as Audi and Vodafone already walking away. The Glazers should be thanking the lord for us loyal fans and Fergie/ the players who have masked their behavious so far by papering over the cracks, but unfortunately the future is not so bright should they keep running up the debt and not paying it back.

[Mozzer]

i thought this was a jermaine pennant thread???

[Roar of the Rover]

Those are two pretty ###### reasons.

Come on, who's bidding for him?

It doesn't matter whose bidding for him the fact is he won't come to Rovers. It's like Rovers going in for Deco when he wanted to leave. He wouldn't come to us simple as that. He wants Champions league football. We can't give him UEFA cup football let alone anything else.

Xabi Alonso will never join us and even Ince and any sane Rovers fan would know that!

Can't believe im even arguing this with you.

Pathetic!

[thenodrog]

Not particularly wanting to side with Mr Lar de Dar Gunner Graham in Malta but if Xabi Alonso was so good why are Benitez / Lpool so willing to get rid? Whenever I have watched him he's been OK but nothing special to rave about.

I must say though that he and his agent no doubt thinks he is far too good or too Billy Big-Time for BRFC.

[leftfooter]

Numbers are very simple.

Wages are up by about £4m to £40m, gate income down by about £1m (poor cup runs and reduced prices) media income up by nearly £20m.

Nets to a £15m improvement of which £7m gets swallowed up paying off the excess borrowings from last year when Rovers bought ahead of the Prem going mad.

Net £8m to spend- Nicko said £10m.

Net £3m contribution from the Walker Trust

Net £4m profit on the management change.

Net £500K on the Garner sell-on fee.

Net £750K on budget saving by not paying Hughes et al in June and not paying Bentley his new contract.

Net £9m on Bentley if Arsenal get 50%

Minus £1m on Robinson/Friedal

Minus £4m set to one side for Villanueva

Adds up to £20m in the Rovers' kitty. Hughes would have been at £16m right now as we wouldn't have made cash on his departure.

On wages, we are not paying the £55k a week the club had budgeted on paying Bentley.

There is enough space there if Roverswant to go for a £15m single signing.

My view is they should seriously be looking at that level as those sorts of players on their own make the difference between top and bottom half finishes.

With regards to c0ompetition for Alonso's signature, by and large it is only the English clubs that have not yet done their summer shopping. The Continentals have got on with it and are largely sorted.

Very simple folk are laughing- I am pointing out that Rovers could put in a serious effort to buy a £15m player if they want to.

Shouldn't we also add on 1.5M for the Savage fee?

[T4E]

We'd never spend that much, even if we had it (which you can't prove we do), and he'd never come to us.

Stick to your sums phil, you clearly know the square root of (Please don't use that word again) all about football.

[Guest Kamy100]

Liverpool fans consistently tell me that they cannot understand why Alonso is not played more by Rafa as he is quality and gives them different dimensions when he is in the team. In terms of him coming to Blackburn NO CHANCE. Even if he we had that much money to spend on one player (which we don't) he'd still think that he was to big time to come to us.

[alexanders]

Liverpool fans consistently tell me that they cannot understand why Alonso is not played more by Rafa as he is quality and gives them different dimensions when he is in the team.

A lot of the same things I hear from Liverpool supporters about Pennant. That he actually is very good, but Rafa's rotation system means that no-one gets the consistency which is much needed for all most every player. Seriously, who in here thinks that Kuyt is a superior player to Pennant?

Liverpool is such a team we should be raiding for their number 2's, hence Warnock and Pennant.

[Bobby G]

Kuyt is a far more superior player than Pennant. In fact Benitez has misused Kuyt so much that the former top scorer of Dutch football has become a workaholic right sided midfielder who just runs up and down the wing.

[alexanders]

BobbyG, I agree a little bit.

Kuyt may be a better player, but not at the RW position.

[Majiball]

BobbyG, I agree a little bit.

Kuyt maybe is a better player, but know at the RW position.

Kuyt plays a right side forwards role, having his ariel ability running in at the back post, with the ball being whipped in from the left worked to good effect last year.

[alexanders]

About the Penannt issue and Liverpools number 2's.

What happened to Bellamy when he came to Liverpool, he wasn't in the first XI and was only a squad player. WE know he is a class act!

Warnock wasn't able to get time on the pitch - we know he is class act

Alonso have been struggling to get time on the field - he is class act

Luis Garca struggled to get playing time - he is class act

Benayoun is struggling to get in to the first XI - he is class act

I believe we can put Pennant in the same category as these above players.

[thenodrog]

Benayoun is struggling to get in to the first XI - he is class act

He's a 'Rovers' type player imo. No little skill, good vision and a sound work ethic. Pennants character is suspect and imo we are going for the wrong one.

[leftfooter]

He's a 'Rovers' type player imo. No little skill, good vision and a sound work ethic. Pennants character is suspect and imo we are going for the wrong one.

His best position is behind the front two, in the hole. Only Benitez considers him a right winger. He wouldn't be a like for like replacement for Bentley, Pennant might.

We could consider going for the pair of them.

[alexanders]

IMO - Benayoun might be similar to Villanueva. It is the Bentley issue which needs to be solved and in that case we need a classical pacey right winger. Pennant is that type of player.

[almuncle]

IMO - Benayoun might be similar to Villanueva. It is the Bentley issue which needs to be solved and in that case we need a classical pacey right whinger. Pennant is that type of player.

Was that what you meant? Or did you really mean winger?

[thenodrog]

IMO - Benayoun might be similar to Villanueva. It is the Bentley issue which needs to be solved and in that case we need a classical pacey right winger. Pennant is that type of player.

Eh? He usually put a good cross in but Bentley could never be described as 'pacey'. Also he could play in the hole as easily as on the right wing (in fact Wenger suggests that he prefers to play the 'Bergkamp role, see the last sentence here http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,110...900528,00.html). Benayoun is a much much closer replacement to the player that we need to replace.

btw Could you see Pennant playing anywhere other than right wing should the need arise?

[bellamy11]

It doesn't matter whose bidding for him the fact is he won't come to Rovers. It's like Rovers going in for Deco when he wanted to leave. He wouldn't come to us simple as that. He wants Champions league football. We can't give him UEFA cup football let alone anything else.

Xabi Alonso will never join us and even Ince and any sane Rovers fan would know that!

Can't believe im even arguing this with you.

Pathetic!

Are you serious?!?

Jesus Christ even philipl could probably see I was taking the ###### there. And he's lost all concept of reality.

[vintageadidas]

Michael Kightly should be Bentleys replacement.

MGP - Dunn - Villavenuea - Kightly

[DeadlyDirk]

Michael Kightly should be Bentleys replacement.

MGP - Dunn - Villavenuea - Kightly

That would certainly add a much more attacking threat but where is the steel? You could only really play those 4 if you had an anchor man in behind them which is apparantley what we are looking for.

Defensively though I feel those 4 on their own would get found out.

[vintageadidas]

That would certainly add a much more attacking threat but where is the steel? You could only really play those 4 if you had an anchor man in behind them which is apparantley what we are looking for.

Defensively though I feel those 4 on their own would get found out.

True, a very decent anchor man would make that a very good midfield. Kightly looked very good yesterday, he could make the step up.

[BRFC1995]

if we do as expected sign pennant + a.n.other holding mid. then surely dunns out of the first team picture!

------------------------------------------------ SUBS: VOGEL, KHIZINISHVILLI,McCARTHY,ROBERTS/EMERTON

-------------------A.N.OTHER-----------------

PENNANT------------------------------GAMST

-----------------VILLENUEVA-----------------

--------DERBYSHIRE-------------------------

--------------------ROQUE--------------------

Which depending on the identity of A.N.OTHER(personally i thought bret looked decent in the center if we don't sign anyone good) looks a certain top half midfield and attack, Just get the GK situation sorted we'll be fine

[LeChuck]

That's far too attacking, we'll never be playing that.

Remove Derbyshire and put in Emerton/Reid/Vogel alongside A.N.Other in the centre and you'll probably be about right.

[John]

Looking at the other options for right midfield, I would probably go for Pennant. He does have talent but seems to have lost his way.

Generally, if possible, it is best to sign players with experience of playing in the Premiership as well.

Liverpool desperate for cash though, so we will do well to keep the fee low.

[brfcshabba]

SUBS: VOGEL, KHIZINISHVILLI,McCARTHY,ROBERTS/EMERTON

7 subs this season