[Archived] Pennant

[T4E]

Yep, Rovers are on a level playing field with everyone when it comes to trying to sign Xabi Alonso.

This has gone beyond ridiculous now.

I'll indugle you.

Alonso would get in to the first team of the following (selected) CL qualified clubs -

Atletico Madrid

Juventus

Fiorentina

Arsenal

Lyon

Inter Milan

PSV Eindhoven

Roma

Porto

Werder Bremen

Sporting Lisbon

Zenit St Petersburg

Villareal

Bayern Munich

Galatasaray

Alonso would get in to the first team of the following (selected) UEFA Cup qualified clubs -

Valencia

Sevilla

Sampdoria

Udinese

AC Milan (if Kaka goes)

Benfica

Feyenoord

Ajax

No doubt you'll debate a few of these - that's fair enough. It's what we're here for. Infact, I'd imagine your response will be to give us a brief financial history of them all to demonstrate how Rovers are far better off than all of them. You'll probably manage to squeeze the Glazers in there somewhere too.

Now - this is assuming that Alonso would only consider moving to a club where he would be guaranteed a game. The likelihood is he would take a decent wage and fancy his chances of breaking in to the first team of any of the above, and countless others.

We have no chance of signing Xabi Alonso.

[philipl]

Hell of a comparison, even for you - an, at the time, thought to be failure who wasn't sticking with the first team and hadn't had the best of loan spells his one full season in the Prem compared against a Champs League and Euro winning top midfielder.

Who spent a lot of last season dropped by a misfiring Liverpool.

[T4E]

Who spent a lot of last season dropped by a misfiring Liverpool.

The same season where he broke his metatarsal, spent almost 3 months out, and still played 27 games for them?

[philipl]

Yep, Rovers are on a level playing field with everyone when it comes to trying to sign Xabi Alonso.

This has gone beyond ridiculous now.

I'll indugle you.

Alonso would get in to the first team of the following (selected) CL qualified clubs -

Atletico Madrid

Juventus

Fiorentina

Arsenal

Lyon

Inter Milan

PSV Eindhoven

Roma

Porto

Werder Bremen

Sporting Lisbon

Zenit St Petersburg

Villareal

Bayern Munich

Galatasaray

Alonso would get in to the first team of the following (selected) UEFA Cup qualified clubs -

Valencia

Sevilla

Sampdoria

Udinese

AC Milan (if Kaka goes)

Benfica

Feyenoord

Ajax

No doubt you'll debate a few of these - that's fair enough. It's what we're here for. Infact, I'd imagine your response will be to give us a brief financial history of them all to demonstrate how Rovers are far better off than all of them. You'll probably manage to squeeze the Glazers in there somewhere too.

Now - this is assuming that Alonso would only consider moving to a club where he would be guaranteed a game. The likelihood is he would take a decent wage and fancy his chances of breaking in to the first team of any of the above, and countless others.

We have no chance of signing Xabi Alonso.

And who has the cash and who is bidding?

Strike Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Udinese, Samp, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal, Sporting, Werder, Villarreal, Porto, Roma, PSV, Fiorentina, Juve and Atletico from the list because they do not have £15m available.

Which of the others is actually bidding?

[American]

Once we bid, all of them.

[T4E]

Do you think that we have £15m available? To spend on one player?

The vast majority could raise £15m on account of being in the Champions League. We could not.

[American]

He'll tell us the financial reasons, and then conveniently forget we have to pay wages, despite using that as the excuse for Hughes never having money to spend.

[S15]

Philip, this is like the time you started a month long campaing for us to sign Giles Grimandi back in the day. The drugs clearly don't work buddy.

[philipl]

Numbers are very simple.

Wages are up by about £4m to £40m, gate income down by about £1m (poor cup runs and reduced prices) media income up by nearly £20m.

Nets to a £15m improvement of which £7m gets swallowed up paying off the excess borrowings from last year when Rovers bought ahead of the Prem going mad.

Net £8m to spend- Nicko said £10m.

Net £3m contribution from the Walker Trust

Net £4m profit on the management change.

Net £500K on the Garner sell-on fee.

Net £750K on budget saving by not paying Hughes et al in June and not paying Bentley his new contract.

Net £9m on Bentley if Arsenal get 50%

Minus £1m on Robinson/Friedal

Minus £4m set to one side for Villanueva

Adds up to £20m in the Rovers' kitty. Hughes would have been at £16m right now as we wouldn't have made cash on his departure.

On wages, we are not paying the £55k a week the club had budgeted on paying Bentley.

There is enough space there if Roverswant to go for a £15m single signing.

My view is they should seriously be looking at that level as those sorts of players on their own make the difference between top and bottom half finishes.

With regards to c0ompetition for Alonso's signature, by and large it is only the English clubs that have not yet done their summer shopping. The Continentals have got on with it and are largely sorted.

Very simple folk are laughing- I am pointing out that Rovers could put in a serious effort to buy a £15m player if they want to.

[American]

So we need 4 areas strengthened, but should spend it all on one player? And Alonso's wages above what was budgeted for Bentley would be much more than 1 million. Plus signing on fees for him and Robinson, plus filling the other 3 areas.

PLUS THE FACT HE WOULD NEVER WANT TO PLAY HERE!!!

F-me, I can't believe I've wasted this much time even discussing this.

Off to go see Dark Knight.

[S15]

You forgot to mention United are going bust.

[T4E]

Simple as that. He's ours!

Philip, you really aren't getting this are you?

Xabi Alonso is a top level player. He's 26 years old. He's won the Champions League. He'll be wanted by clubs all over Europe, once a fee gets agreed that will be the catalyst. We do not have £15m to spend on one player no matter how you break it down - your sums are based around an £8m/£10m budget that there is no evidence exists. Alonso would want much more than £55k to drop down to Rovers level. He's likely on atleast that now given his contract extension last Summer.

You're making yourself look ridiculous - particularly as you're the only one that can't see it.

[philipl]

Tata.

Again. Nobody arguing on the numbers I am putting forwards.

Nor has anyone got the slightest hint of an argument that 17 out of the 23 clubs T4E listed are completely out of the running.

[S15]

Tata.

Again. Nobody arguing on the numbers I am putting forwards.

Nor has anyone got the slightest hint of an argument that 17 out of the 23 clubs T4E listed are completely out of the running.

Nor have you got the hint of the argument in which Rovers are not, and will never be one of those 23 clubs.

[T4E]

Again. Nobody arguing on the numbers I am putting forwards.

Nor has anyone got the slightest hint of an argument that 17 out of the 23 clubs T4E listed are completely out of the running.

The vast majority could raise £15m on account of being in the Champions League. We could not.

We do not have £15m to spend on one player no matter how you break it down - your sums are based around an £8m/£10m budget that there is no evidence exists. Alonso would want much more than £55k to drop down to Rovers level. He's likely on atleast that now given his contract extension last Summer.

Hmmmm......

[S15]

And your numbers, as always, are complete guesstimates.

They aren't worth arguing against, as they aren't evidence. You might as well write nursery rhymes, as they are just as relevant.

[Roar of the Rover]

Tata.

Again. Nobody arguing on the numbers I am putting forwards.

Nor has anyone got the slightest hint of an argument that 17 out of the 23 clubs T4E listed are completely out of the running.

Like your asking us to prove which club have bid for Alonso. You prove to us how we have £8/10million to spend?

You don't know. Alonso wouldn't even p*ss in the same toilet as Rovers let alone play for us!

[philipl]

Hmmmm......

Now you can see how the Rovers' war chest does exist.

I am not arguing Rovers are one of the 23 big clubs- again you are imputing things I have not said.

I am arguing 17 of them are not players in the market right now which creates an opportunity for Rovers to exploit.

This is the point at which we see if John Williams and the Trust have the courage to follow through with their strategy. They weathered the storm not spending when they had some cash but there was no value in the market. They had the courage to borrow in 2006 to buy when they could foresee the Sky money and the explosion in wages and fees.

Now we have the cash and the market is thinly populated with active clubs with the muscle to push Rovers around.

Let's see what happens.

Which numbers are you disputing?

Pick them out and challenge them.

[T4E]

The last three posts have disputed the £8m/£10m claim and asked you for evidence.

Just for once, try reading everything before you reply. Several times in this joke of a debate you've asked things that have already been addressed.

My patience is wearing thin now. Get with the (Please don't use that word again)ing programme.

[philipl]

What an absolute wally!

Have you never heard of the Sky/Setanta deal?

[T4E]

What an absolute wally!

I think we'd all agree with you on that one.

I'm off to bed. When I wake up tomorrow, I sincerely hope we've signed Xabi Alonso. More likely, however, we'll still be in a position where the best we can do is trade in 33 year old past it Scousers and trialists from Congo.

You're a grade A pillock.

[Roar of the Rover]

What an absolute wally!

Have you never heard of the Sky/Setanta deal?

Yeah, but how do you know that is going to be part of our Transfer kitty. It may be used for lowering season tickets, existing debts. You have no evidence. Your argument is based on assumptions not facts!

[philipl]

As you are well aware, I do a detailed analysis of Rovers' accounts each year.

In 2006/7, Rovers' total revenue was c£43m of which £24m came from media rights.

I analysed the movements in wages and gate numbers in my previous post but the amount the Rovers received from media rights in 2007/8 was about £41m.

A full table was published and is on this message board somewhere but I cannot find it anywhere. If you want an outside reference- look at this. To the £29m minimum paid for coming 20th in the EPL, add £750K per place. So for 7th, add 13 x £750K for Rovers and a bit more for extra live coverage.

So both Roar and T4E have clean forgotten the huge increase in revenue which arises from the Sky/Setanta broadcast deal that started at the beginning of 07/8.

The 06/7 numbers are a matter of historical fact as is the £7m excess bank borrowings when Rovers spent early which the club said they would clear, the wages budget and gate revenues already commented on by Rovers, the compensation received for Hughes et al reported as was the compensation paid to MK dons for Ince et al, fees on Robinson/Friedel a matter of public record, the wages offered and actually paid to Bentley have been reported, I've assumed Arsenal take 50% of the Bentley profit....

Nothing else is assumed.

[Roar of the Rover]

As you are well aware, I do a detailed analysis of Rovers' accounts each year.

In 2006/7, Rovers' total revenue was c£43m of which £24m came from media rights.

I analysed the movements in wages and gate numbers in my previous post but the amount the Rovers received from media rights in 2007/8 was about £41m.

A full table was published and is on this message board somewhere but I cannot find it anywhere. If you want an outside reference- look at this. To the £29m minimum paid for coming 20th in the EPL, add £750K per place. So for 7th, add 13 x £750K for Rovers and a bit more for extra live coverage.

So both Roar and T4E have clean forgotten the huge increase in revenue which arises from the Sky/Setanta broadcast deal that started at the beginning of 07/8.

The 06/7 numbers are a matter of historical fact as is the £7m excess bank borrowings when Rovers spent early which the club said they would clear, the wages budget and gate revenues already commented on by Rovers, the compensation received for Hughes et al reported as was the compensation paid to MK dons for Ince et al, fees on Robinson/Friedel a matter of public record, the wages offered and actually paid to Bentley have been reported, I've assumed Arsenal take 50% of the Bentley profit....

Nothing else is assumed.

Yes but no-one besides Ince and the board know how much money we will have to spend this Summer. You can do as much detailed analysis of the Rovers Accounts as you want Phil, but you, me T4E or any other fan DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WE HAVE TO SPEND!

It's the fact, you show me on black and white that Rovers have this much to spend and i'll believe you until then its a load of crap.

Rovers are not going to buy Alonso for 2 main reasons.

1) We don't have the money

2) Alonso wouldn't come to us

As much as it hurts reading for you Phil but it's the truth. Get over it!

[bellamy11]

Rovers are not going to buy Alonso for 2 main reasons.

1) We don't have the money

2) Alonso wouldn't come to us

Those are two pretty ###### reasons.

Come on, who's bidding for him?