[Archived] Fowler Out Now !

[my_name_is_Earl]

[DeadlyDirk]

I don't know why but I've always been a big Fowler fan, mainly due to my dad supporting Liverpool, for that alone I'm quite happy to see Fowler at Blackburn.

But lets put that nostalgic view to one side and look at purely football reasons.

It seems to be going on a while now, he must have been here for 5 or 6 weeks now and you'd think that Ince is trying to force something out of him that isn't there anymore. If he hasn't shown him enough in 6 weeks then will he ever, hey Castillo only got 2 days??? Work that one out.

In the friendlies I've seen he has shown the odd glimpse but just looks a little off the pace, whether or not he can ever get back to being 'on the pace' only time will tell. There is also the argument that having Fowler at the club shows a lack of ambition. I don't really buy that one.

On the positive side to him he has or at least did have an uncanny talent of being in the right place at the right time, showing tremendous movement off the ball and in my opinion is the best finisher the premiership has seen. If he can pass on even 1% of this knowledge to the likes of Derbyshire then it can only help.

Any contract we sign him on is likely to be low and heavily performance based so financialy there isn't really any negative. Also since we need 7 subs next season when you try and pick 18 players and presume that we are always going to have a few players out with knocks or suspensions we really have little to choose from.

All in all I don't really think the pros outweight the cons or vice versa so I guess after all that I'm undecided.

[OscarRaven]

How long is he going to get? Other trialists have been and gone. Get rid now, hes not good enough for a top 6 team which is what we are trying to be (or used to).

Show some ambition and signal our intent through bringing in top class proffesionals of this era not bygone days. Who next Andy Cole? Simon Garner? Hell lets give Matt Jansen another go!

[rover6]

This trial of Fowler's is not an objective one, that's obvious.

Ince wants to sign him and will, unless something dramatic happens.

Ince has recently been quoted as say something along the lines of, "all we need is for Robbie to score and I'll be happy" [after Derbs scored v. Wolves]. Previously, he has named Fowler alongside himself and Robbo as people who need to prove themselves in the forthcoming Prem season.

It'll be a short-term deal but it's gonna happen, let's face it The trial is a token gesture to the fans and pundits.

[Nelsta]

I wouldnt mind the Fowler signing to much if there was a veiw to him being a striking coach, But just signing him as a striker only is a bit of a joke.

[JAL]

This trial of Fowler's is not an objective one, that's obvious.

Ince wants to sign him and will, unless something dramatic happens.

Ince has recently been quoted as say something along the lines of, "all we need is for Robbie to score and I'll be happy" [after Derbs scored v. Wolves]. Previously, he has named Fowler alongside himself and Robbo as people who need to prove themselves in the forthcoming Prem season.

It'll be a short-term deal but it's gonna happen, let's face it The trial is a token gesture to the fans and pundits.

Thats the feeling i get which alarms me greatly, for me extreme pressure should be brought on Ince and the board/trustees from the fans IF Fowler is brought on board, this is just a no brainer .

[Hughesy]

IF one of the top goalscorers of all premier league time can find his sharpness then goals will come. Ince is right to give him time, there is no old pals act, he is simply aware of how he can score goals.

So far he has looked abit slow, but has still set others up - top players can see things quicker than the average players, IF he can get some pace/ sharpness back then he may be worth a performance based contract - fair play to Ince for checking it out.

[BPF]

OK, lads don't worry I've found this and we'll be OK

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=802536

you just know the mystery club is us!!

I'm not sure this is anything but nostaligia for the past but i'd be excited if he did sign for us!

In regards to Fowler. This pay as you play deal...is it Premiership / Cup games only or has he been picking up wages for the friendlies?

Isn't he the richest man in football? He should pay us to give him the chance to prove himself at this level.

[DingleBaiter]

I'm not sure this is anything but nostaligia for the past but i'd be excited if he did sign for us!

In regards to Fowler. This pay as you play deal...is it Premiership / Cup games only or has he been picking up wages for the friendlies?

Isn't he the richest man in football? He should pay us to give him the chance to prove himself at this level.

AFAIA, he's not even near the top of British-based players! He's still worth a few bob, but Duffer for instance is surprisingly one of the richest.

Let's hope Rovers have him on a goal scored only renumeration deal.....

[tcj_jones]

All signing Fowler will do is push youngsters like Derbyshire - who has shown real promise - further away from the first XI. Furthermore, if nothing else, he is a really good impact player coming off the bench. Fowler doesn't strike me as the kind of player that would make the same impact. His game is about finishing and scoring goals, but he hasn't done either well for a long time now. He doesn't have pace and he isn't good in the air, so I can't see him being any good coming off the bench as he doesn't really offer us anything different. He can't believe that he is better than the likes of McCarthy or Santa Cruz, so he is in this for the money, surely? If that is the case, then what a waste.

Also, what a slap in the face this is to Roberts who is desperate to play first team football and who has conducted himself well and not caused a fuss like McCarthy last season and Bentley this.

[Majiball]

OK, I've finally decided to take my fan head of and put my football head on.

With reference to Fowler, lets look at the bigger picture first. Last season we had four strikers RSC, Benni, Roberts and Derbs. Now, next lets look at the stat that matters goals

RSC, 19 prem 4 other 23

Benni, 8 prem 3 other 11

Roberts 3 prem 2 other 5

Derbs 3 prem 2 other 5

each of these players made over 20 appearances each. In total in the league last year we scored 50 goals out of the teams around us only Everton(55) and Villa(71) scored more. As it stands when we look at the overall picture we've not done bad at all, but lets make one change, RSC gets injured (he has a strong history of it). Straight away we just lost our main threat and 40% of our goals, we have all our eggs in one basket. We can also look at it like this RSC out scored all our other strikers combined together.

Now lets look at the ones who can step up, Benni well we all know what he can do on his day he's one of the best in the league. At the moment though he's drastically over weight, seems to be disinterested, he will not be ready for the big kick off fitness wise. Roberts, he's strong has a bit of pace, but how many chances does he need he could easily have hit double figures last year, on top he's only gonna be happy if he's playing week in week out he's proved that last year. Derb's He's our only bit of pace he's shown some real flashes, he needs more of a chance by the time he's brought on and settled into the game the final whistle has gone.

Next Fowler, ok he's 33 but that's not a complete disaster, Cole, Sheringham, Ruud, Raul where all still banging them in there early 30's. Now Fowlers never been the best of trainers he will not run himself into the ground, drift out wide etc. But the one thing he has always done is score last year 6 in 16 albeit in the championship. But he's now had the drop down experienced the lower league, the fact he's turned down a good contract with them shows he's not really up for that level. He wants a final huraah, I'd like to think he is willing to do what he's always struggled to do train hard, sometimes experiencing a lesser version of what you love gives you the desire to re-claim it.

Next point, we are aiming for 6th this year, so we will need to score more, we are 5 short on everton, 21 short on Villa, now add in Portsmouth Defoe and Crouch, they will score goals if defoe carries on as he did he will score 27 goals he hit 8 in 11. Man city will have Bonjinov and Jo, untested but both have scored at the previous clubs. Then of course we have spurs, completely new team let alone strike force but who hear seriously expects them to do badly, Ramos is a excellent coach. In short next year we're gonna need some more goals from somewhere up front.

Last point more of a question really, hands up who knows of a striker who can come in and score double figures. Bare in mind, we have not budgeted for it at all. We need to sign a couple of other positions, a holder, maybe a full back, a right winger, and IMHO one other creative midfielder with flexibility (cue punt Bresciano, he can play all the attacking roles). So once you knock their transfer fees off, then signing on fee's and finally wages I doubt we have a lot left and the problem has not gone away. Fowler maybe old, he maybe slow, he maybe past it, who knows, he's been here a month after a serious injury, his body maybe not be up to it. But as all of you have said Fowler is a natural finisher, its instinct with him it cannot be taught, Get him fit (4 weeks is not long enough to come back from a hip injury, let only get up to prem fitness levels double it minimum), and firing and then we've got a decent player who if given 1 opportunity at goal (given his track record) has a 50% chance of sticking it in the back of the net (can you honestly say that about Benni or Roberts even Derb's, no), FOR FREE. Now I don't disagree its a chance, it may not happen, but given that we need more goals, surely he's worth the punt. It shouldn't hinder Derbs, in fact if they have the right mentality it should only spur them on, make them more determined to prove they are good enough, if not then they don't have the right head for the top level, its a challenge they should rise to it.

In the immortal words of David Bentleys TV Hero "He who dares wins".

[DingleBaiter]

Last point more of a question really, hands up who knows of a striker who can come in and score double figures.

Whilst he's not a prolific goal scorer, I'd sure like to see mr Glass Legs from Marseille, he's itching to come back to the Prem. Hughes kept tabs on him last season & seemingly was looking to make a push for him this close season; interesting to note that link has been expanded on again this morning in the Daily Mirror, seems Hughes is after him on loan.

20 goals a season strikers becoming available/attainable, consistent ones, are rare - kinda like unicorns - and unlikely to occur - such as Benedict joining Weight Watchers.

Interestingly, given strikers tend to be judged on goals scored, I wonder which strikers there are out there who's ratio of chances against goals scored is the highest? For instance, Andy Cole scored loads, but as a certain nugget pointed out once, he may miss five to score on the sixth.

Fowler, albeit in his pomp, didn't miss many - he often only needed a sniff. I mean, we didn't do altogether badly with Mr Garner, he CERTAINLY was never judged on his match fitness!

I think Derbs is actually our second most important striker for his all-round game, balancing the fact that he's got natural pace, he trains/plays hard, is more consistent game-on-game and I would back him to score most times. Benni has talent but lacks application, whilst the converse is true for Roberts. The downside to Derbs is when he starts a game, I think centre halves tend to 'suss' him, which is why he's more of an impact player to come on & stretch them in the last 20 mins of games. Cisse has pace to burn & will worry defences purely on that factor alone, however it's also prudent to note the formation Ince will probably play won't include two out & out strikers 'up top'. Therefore I think it will be Roque/Roberts up top, with another striker behind 'in da hole' i.e. Benedict, Fowler or Derbs. Given this hole position requires some mobility, I'd plump (no pun intended, Benedict or Robbie) for Derbs every time. Q.E.D.

The only other option is to create loadsa and loadsa chances and hope we have lucky bumps.

[JAL]

Pace, we need pace upfront thats why Villa scored over twenty goals more than Rovers they had it in abundance.

Fowlers legs are spent they've gone a bit like Dunny's only Cruz, Roberts and Derbyshire have the legs to play todays games Macarthy seems like he doesnt want to use them so i see him as a saleable asset that Ince should be using to bring a fresh attacker to the club.

Whatever happened to defending from the front thats when teams have the edge over their opponents.

[Jan]

Pace, we need pace upfront thats why Villa scored over twenty goals more than Rovers they had it in abundance.

Fowlers legs are spent they've gone a bit like Dunny's only Cruz, Roberts and Derbyshire have the legs to play todays games Macarthy seems like he doesnt want to use them so i see him as a saleable asset that Ince should be using to bring a fresh attacker to the club.

Whatever happened to defending from the front thats when teams have the edge over their opponents.

You SO weren't there on Saturday. I was more than a little shocked to see Dunn beat a speedy midfielder for pace on a number of occasions. At other times he used speed and body strength. Both are useful attributes.

[DP]

Let's not get Jal back on the Dunny bashing. He's actually made a good post here.

I'm trying to pull together an argument for Fowler, but it's no good I can't.

If, and I'm preying this doesn't happen, RSC does have a lengthy spell on the sidelines then I would turn to McCarthy &Roberts/Derbs before Fowler.

With Fowler I'm always reminded of that Soccer AM sketch with him and Steve McManaman talking over the garden fence about how much money they'd picked up at City that week for doing ***all.

[Majiball]

Pace, we need pace upfront thats why Villa scored over twenty goals more than Rovers they had it in abundance.

Fowlers legs are spent they've gone a bit like Dunny's only Cruz, Roberts and Derbyshire have the legs to play todays games Macarthy seems like he doesnt want to use them so i see him as a saleable asset that Ince should be using to bring a fresh attacker to the club.

Whatever happened to defending from the front thats when teams have the edge over their opponents.

Pace costs though as I said do we have spare dollar for a suggested Cisse, whats he gonna be 6M plus and then his contract. I think derb's will be the pace option this year, I take it he's had SAQ training with abit more perhaps we could improve his initial acceleration a bit more?

Maybe a loan if we're lucky, I think its a money issue, this year its better spent elsewhere, we can't blow it all this window. Cisse would be a good signing but what was his ratio at pool 1 in 4, he spent quite a bit out on the right wing however but as to how many games I have no idea??

[LeChuck]

we can't blow it all this window.

Why not? I'm fed up of us not spending money...we can't constantly keeping holding back money thinking that the market will calm down, because it might not happen...and by the time we realise that we could have slipped too far behind our competitors to catch up.

[Majiball]

Why not? I'm fed up of us not spending money...we can't constantly keeping holding back money thinking that the market will calm down, because it might not happen...and by the time we realise that we could have slipped too far behind our competitors to catch up.

I'd keep some back TBH just in case we really need it, call it worst case senario money.

[LeChuck]

Prevention is always better than cure.

[JAL]

Pace costs though as I said do we have spare dollar for a suggested Cisse, whats he gonna be 6M plus and then his contract. I think derb's will be the pace option this year, I take it he's had SAQ training with abit more perhaps we could improve his initial acceleration a bit more?

Maybe a loan if we're lucky, I think its a money issue, this year its better spent elsewhere, we can't blow it all this window. Cisse would be a good signing but what was his ratio at pool 1 in 4, he spent quite a bit out on the right wing however but as to how many games I have no idea??

I'm not bothered what it costs though as little as possible is the way to go for Rovers, but in Fowler, Inces credibility is spent to me, hes a clown if he continues with Robbie Fowlers services, the only way Ince can redeem himself is to offload Fowler open up his eyes realise were heading into the 2008-09 season and find the next generation Robbie Fowler.

You made some good stats at the top of page 4 majiball, i'd like to have seen what Robbie Fowlers stats were in regards playing time goals scored etc, over the past four seasons rather than just the previous one to balance out your viewpoint on Robbie Fowler, i think it would give us a better indication of were Robbie Fowler is in regards to his career at this moment in time.

[Flopsy]

Can we not sign old crystal legs please, what with his and Ewood Park's record, I dont think we'd get much use out of him.

Although I would love to see him at Ewood, I wouldnt want him on crutches

[Majiball]

Prevention is always better than cure.

As I said worse case senario, Christmas comes and things look bad! We've blown all the money in this window, and need some to drag us out. Keeping some back, just covers our arses, as I said just incase. Untried and untested at this level as they are (I do believe this won't happen), wouldn't you rather we were able to inject some fresh impetus in Jan should the need arise.

Its not as simple as, he may get the flu so give him a jab. In this case we cannot predict the disease that could transpire.

I'm not bothered what it costs though as little as possible is the way to go for Rovers, but in Fowler, Inces credibility is spent to me, hes a clown if he continues with Robbie Fowlers services, the only way Ince can redeem himself is to offload Fowler open up his eyes realise were heading into the 2008-09 season and find the next generation Robbie Fowler.

You made some good stats at the top of page 4 majiball, i'd like to have seen what Robbie Fowlers stats were in regards playing time goals scored etc, over the past four seasons rather than just the previous one to balance out your viewpoint on Robbie Fowler, i think it would give us a better indication of were Robbie Fowler is in regards to his career at this moment in time.

Apps againast goals, thats what I've got:

Cruz App 96 GL 30 Ratio 1 in 3.2

Benni App 137 GL 53 Ratio 1 in 2.5

Matt App 75 GL 24 Ratio 1 in 3.1

Roberts App 143 GL 45 Ratio 1 in 3.1

Fowler App 56 GL 22 Ratio 1 in 2.5

Apperances againast Goals for the last 4 years for all our strikers, I have not taken playing time into consideration. Given that Fowler and Derb's have mainly been subs over the last 4 years, I can probaly lower that ratio but I won't. At the end of the day, it does not matter what they did in the past if it did we would probably have never signed RSC his record at Bayern was shocking, but he came to us found a new lease of life and look what happened. Getting Fowler fit after a hip injury (one he's carried for a while now) will take longer than a month, 2 possibly a little bit more. I remember Hughes trying to sign him a couple of years ago, did you kick and scream then, did you call for his head, but most important of all did you call him a clown, based on one desicion? I'd like to think not! Hughes also tried to sign an even older has been in sheringham, what was your reaction then? I could go on Nelsen an MLS nobody, Samba a mid table german reserve at best. I take it at the time you went down the fancy dress shop hired a clown suit and paraded youself round Ewood screaming I'm Mark Hughes, come on. You gave him the benefit of the doubt and judged them on what you saw I'll wager do the same with Robbie and Ince.

Look at this way, as you said it costs us nothing except a couple of mates have given you grief and laughed. Imagine what you can do if it works out! Fowler is a natural finisher, its a talent that coaches would love to be able to teach, its instinct.

Ince maybe his mate, but at the same time as opposed to saying he's doing him a favour, perhaps given that Ince knows him so well he can coax the best out of him, using that knowledge.

You suggest we find the next Fowler, I'm pretty sure that 19 other clubs in our league are doing the same. Even if we did find him, could we afford him? Leave the desicions to Ince, he will live or die by his choices, its the nature of the beast. Calling him a Clown and saying he's lost all credibilty based on one trial player, is not fair at all.

[JAL]

As I said worse case senario, Christmas comes and things look bad! We've blown all the money in this window, and need some to drag us out. Keeping some back, just covers our arses, as I said just incase. Untried and untested at this level as they are (I do believe this won't happen), wouldn't you rather we were able to inject some fresh impetus in Jan should the need arise.

Its not as simple as, he may get the flu so give him a jab. In this case we cannot predict the disease that could transpire.

Apps againast goals, thats what I've got:

Cruz App 96 GL 30 Ratio 1 in 3.2

Benni App 137 GL 53 Ratio 1 in 2.5

Matt App 75 GL 24 Ratio 1 in 3.1

Roberts App 143 GL 45 Ratio 1 in 3.1

Fowler App 56 GL 22 Ratio 1 in 2.5

Apperances againast Goals for the last 4 years for all our strikers, I have not taken playing time into consideration. Given that Fowler and Derb's have mainly been subs over the last 4 years, I can probaly lower that ratio but I won't. At the end of the day, it does not matter what they did in the past if it did we would probably have never signed RSC his record at Bayern was shocking, but he came to us found a new lease of life and look what happened. Getting Fowler fit after a hip injury (one he's carried for a while now) will take longer than a month, 2 possibly a little bit more. I remember Hughes trying to sign him a couple of years ago, did you kick and scream then, did you call for his head, but most important of all did you call him a clown, based on one desicion? I'd like to think not! Hughes also tried to sign an even older has been in sheringham, what was your reaction then? I could go on Nelsen an MLS nobody, Samba a mid table german reserve at best. I take it at the time you went down the fancy dress shop hired a clown suit and paraded youself round Ewood screaming I'm Mark Hughes, come on. You gave him the benefit of the doubt and judged them on what you saw I'll wager do the same with Robbie and Ince.

Look at this way, as you said it costs us nothing except a couple of mates have given you grief and laughed. Imagine what you can do if it works out! Fowler is a natural finisher, its a talent that coaches would love to be able to teach, its instinct.

Ince maybe his mate, but at the same time as opposed to saying he's doing him a favour, perhaps given that Ince knows him so well he can coax the best out of him, using that knowledge.

You suggest we find the next Fowler, I'm pretty sure that 19 other clubs in our league are doing the same. Even if we did find him, could we afford him? Leave the desicions to Ince, he will live or die by his choices, its the nature of the beast. Calling him a Clown and saying he's lost all credibilty based on one trial player, is not fair at all.

Sheringham was always a very fit lad, always playing - big difference to Fowler, 56 appearances over four years says it all thanks for the info majiball.

Its a no brainer majiball, the hiring of Fowler free or not is simply not good enough maybe four years ago i'd be saying completly the opposite as there would have been an excellent case for hiring Robbie Fowler but not now.

If Ince carries on down this path then the immediate future of Blackburn Rovers looks very bleak.

Couple this with the garbage coming out of Inces mouth about Tugay still having a major role to play, Dunny as vice captain, the future looks very very bleak for Blackburn Rovers.The standard if we are to maintain our premiership status HAS TO BE HIGHER THAN WHAT THESE INDIVIDUALS CAN DELIVER IN FUTURE.

If you or anyone else cant see this then i see it as my repsonsibility to point these things out.

Thank you JAL.

[BRFC95]

Thank you JAL.

Your constant Ince bashing is wearing a bit thin now, you've made your point, everyone knows where you stand, why not wait and see how things pan out.

[JAL]

Your constant Ince bashing is wearing a bit thin now, you've made your point, everyone knows where you stand, why not wait and see how things pan out.

I cant just turn up to watch Rovers knowing full well nothings going to happen on the pitch can I, because we've got a modern day Frank Stapleton or a John Aston up front.

Theres are a whole host of improvement needed in other departments of the team, the team as it stands just isnt strong enough to carry Robbie Fowler if it was I wouldnt be shouting so loud about Fowler.