[Archived] Rotherham And Bournemouth Teetering

[CAPT KAYOS]

Which puts even more mockery on the game.

Fair enough that its probably the clubs own fault that they have ended up in their position - but its back to them trying to compete in an extremely and obvious unbalanced league structure with incompetent no brains running it.

Add that to the battle to the modern day fans of 'instant success' requirement and glamourised Premier teams and this is what happens - and will continue to if the game follows the same vein as it is.

[Majiball]

With you on this one Kapt. I've been proud that my country is able to support 92 fully professional clubs (actually more as most of the Conference are fully pro too). It's a sport first and foremost. An area's pride in its club should come before a club's balance sheet.

On the subject of L Utd - it might be a more viable business but I'd not support seeing my club's history tossed aside to chase a few extra bucks. Doubtless there'd be an FC Rovers of Blackburn or whatever and I'd support them!

I remember being told at uni, that if you where to take every other sport and add all the teams together in Brtian, you would still not be near the number of football teams that we have in this country.

Bournemouth docked 17 points

I still don't really get this, club gets into trouble goes into administration, previous regime leaves, administrators find a new owner they put the boat on track, then the FA dock them silly points, ensuring there relegation 9 times out of 10. Harsh, too Harsh, the FA should punish those that created the situation not the people who tried to stop it ie the fans and the new owners.

My sympathies to Luton, Bournemouth and Rothertham.

[Billy Castell]

It's not like they tried to cheat the system like Leeds. I suppose the FA/football league wanted to be consistent after knocking off Leeds' 15 points.

[roversmum]

Yes, it's just daft. Except in the case of Leeds, of course.....

[The Prof.]

Most of football is not really solvent - someone will end up winning the league with -3 points soon

[only2garners]

My sympathies to Luton, Bournemouth and Rothertham.

My understanding was that the points deductions are to compensate for the more favourable financial position that clubs who go into administration find themselves in i.e. they get rid of a lot of debt that other more sensible clubs work within. The aim is to stop clubs taking the admin route so that they will all start to operate within their means - a much fairer position all round if it works. Once you've started this process you can't stop it half way through. I feel sorry for the fans of the 3 clubs affected because it's not their fault but I can't really have any sympathy for their incompetent managements. (I know it may well be a new management team left to sort out the profligacies of a previous team, but you can't just change the people and forget the past).

[CAPT KAYOS]

Most of football is not really solvent - someone will end up winning the league with -3 points soon

Exactly Prof

[thenodrog]

MODS - Why when I type Blackburn Rovers am I getting Blackburn Rovers?

I think its a silly attempt at humour by SteB Capt. Can't imagine why.

Anyawy I thnik you need to put a dot in soemwhere or an intentionul mis-spell to circunmavigate the filter.

[b12_simon]

I think its a silly attempt at humour by SteB Capt. Can't imagine why.

Anyawy I thnik you need to put a dot in soemwhere or an intentionul mis-spell to circunmavigate the filter.

'Drog advising fellow posters to cheat the swear filter - I'm apalled!

[ThatRabbitsDynamite]

I still don't really get this, club gets into trouble goes into administration, previous regime leaves, administrators find a new owner they put the boat on track, then the FA dock them silly points, ensuring there relegation 9 times out of 10. Harsh, too Harsh, the FA should punish those that created the situation not the people who tried to stop it ie the fans and the new owners.

My sympathies to Luton, Bournemouth and Rothertham.

This scenario does boggle the mind. It certain seems and is counter productive to the team.

My understanding was that the points deductions are to compensate for the more favourable financial position that clubs who go into administration find themselves in i.e. they get rid of a lot of debt that other more sensible clubs work within. The aim is to stop clubs taking the admin route so that they will all start to operate within their means - a much fairer position all round if it works. Once you've started this process you can't stop it half way through. I feel sorry for the fans of the 3 clubs affected because it's not their fault but I can't really have any sympathy for their incompetent managements. (I know it may well be a new management team left to sort out the profligacies of a previous team, but you can't just change the people and forget the past).

But, this appears to be the other side of the story. It turns out to be more hurtful to the real fans then anything or anyone else. Trully sad.

Think of the generations of people who follow(ed) any team in this picture. The history behind each and every club in England. All the way back to Sheffield FC being the first club in 1857. Our Civil War hadn't begun yet. It is incredible when i read about the history of football in England. I have to wonder if individuals who are born in certain areas don't actually have some kind of stamp on their DNA making them a Rovers, Preston, or Villa fan before they've even been conceived. (Manu fans would probably not have this gene as they've not been around long enough) Think of how much heart and soul has gone into football from the players, fans, and managers since the league was started in 1888/89. How many fans for how many years have planned their week around a home(and sometimes a road) match? Millions!!

It is a shame to see its become so, commercialized.

I've attached a link that in the first paragraph states that there may be 7000 clubs in England. If you scroll down it shows an outline of 22+ levels of football.

There must be a university course in a history department somewhere on English Football.

http://www.answers.com/topic/english-football-league-system

[stuwilky]

At a time where people claim this country cannot support the number of teams it has..... it becomes strange to find that rapidly through the last 7 years or so the conference national has become entirely full time. Giving us around 116 professional full time clubs. I believe there are also a scattering in the Conf North and Conf South.

The football pyramid is developing also.

In addition to the clubs at National Level there are

Step 2 - 44 clubs

Step 3 - 66 clubs - Unibond Premier

4 - 129 clubs - Unibond Div 1 North

5 - 291 clubs - North West Counties (Vodkat Premier)

6 - 309 clubs - NWC Div 1

of course there are casualties along the way, sometimes due to mismanagement, sometimes due to 3rd party factors, like fires and whatnot.

its a very interesting time for football, i guess.

[Billy Castell]

I think there will come a time when 'real' football fans give up on the top tiers and go to the likes of Accy Stanley, Barnet etc. whilst all the showbiz fans who read Heat or 'big club big mouths' and have a bit of money will fill places like Old Trafford. The game will develop ing two toally different directions and there will almost be two different games.

Think of H. G. Wells' Time Machine with the Eloi and Morlocks, and you're sort of there.

[philipl]

The bottom of the Fourth Division looks daft:

19 Macclesfield 5 -13 3

20 Grimsby 5 -8 2

21 Barnet 5 -11 0

22 Rotherham 5 4 -7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

23 Bournemouth 5 -3 -14

24 Luton 5 -1 -23

[thenodrog]

Just proves my well worn point that 4 Divs with 92 football league clubs are two divs and 50 or so clubs too many.

If football was invented today under todays business conditions there would never ever be room for 92 professional clubs. Sad for some die hards but the tip of the iceberg imo, they are only making up numbers anyway.

The fact that zillionaires are queuing up to chuck money at Eastlands and St James Park whilst completely ignoring lil old BRFC highlights the fact that the size of the potential of a club appears to be the main attraction.

Not entirely sure whether this is good or bad though considering the stupidity of the current examples. Only time will reveal that.

[Head Rover Heels]

But, this appears to be the other side of the story. It turns out to be more hurtful to the real fans then anything or anyone else. Trully sad.

Can't be doing with trawling through to pick out all the quotes i wanted, but this is the last point on the discussion - Re the point deductions and how it is too harsh etc on those clubs that are taken over..

I don't know if we still have any Grimsby fans knocking around after the cup game, but i'm sure if there are they can help fill in the gaps.

A few years ago, Grimsby were flying high in the Championship (think it was division one then), when they hit real financial difficulties and needed to start a pretty comprehensive yard sale. At the same time, Leicester were spending big, and i mean BIG for a club in the tier they were in. Over one summer break, Leicester went into administration and cleared 90% of their debts with no comeback (It was before the point deduction rule came into force. Grimsby battled hard and sold half of their first team squad, managing to just scrape by thanks to John Fenty and a large fund put together by the supporters.

The next season, Leicester were taken over, and started spending big again whereas Grimsby were left struggling, suffering two successive relegations. If Leicester had been hit with the points deduction of the likes we have seen in recent times, the story would have been a very different one, but without it, Grimsby are languishing at the bottom of Div 2 but are finally solvent again, Leicester, well they're still a big rich club in the second tier.

The deduction is there not to punish people unnecessarily, but to prevent the cheating of the system - If you ask me, Grimsby's story, and that of many other clubs which have battled with debt in the right way, is one that isn't told enough - Instead, we are left feeling sorry for teams who's owners have pushed the clubs through financial irregularities.

The deductions are harsh, but in all honesty they could be much harsher and i'd still see them as fair.

[Fife Rover]

I think its a silly attempt at humour by SteB Capt. Can't imagine why.

Anyawy I thnik you need to put a dot in soemwhere or an intentionul mis-spell to circunmavigate the filter.

Ay Theno! I think you need to hop off that clubhouse bar stool a bit sooner after your round.

[Billy Castell]

After 5 games, it seems that the points deduction may help Barnet stay in the league. I don't understand how they can go to a fairly respectable position to absolute crap. Arsenal should loan them some youngsters, because they're doing so badly. Come on Barnet get a grip.