[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[broadsword]

Ashley Ward had an ability to shoot.

Can't wait for keith to leave so this thread can be closed once and for all/

[den]

is it or is it not an ability? As is getting in the positions as to have the shots from.

And if it's not that bigger thing, how come no-one else seemed to be doing it that much yesterday? Den?

The fact that he had shots on, or off goal doesn't reflect a midfielders ability. Anyone can shoot, from anywhere.

Judge a midfielder by his ball control, first touch, range of passing, consistency of passing, domination of the oppositions midfield, control of the pace of the game, defensive abilities, tackling abilities, positional abilities, physical strength, heading ability etc, etc.

NOT how many shots he had.

[Stuart]

and I put the Lottery on every weekend, doesn't mean I'm going to win

Super_arran, do you think likening Andrews scoring a goal to you winning the lottery is helping your case for the defense?

No further questions m'lud.

[super_arran]

The fact that he had shots on, or off goal doesn't reflect a midfielders ability. Anyone can shoot, from anywhere.

Judge a midfielder by his ball control, first touch, range of passing, consistency of passing, domination of the oppositions midfield, control of the pace of the game, defensive abilities, tackling abilities, positional abilities, physical strength, heading ability etc, etc.

NOT how many shots he had.

Like I said previously; I was saying it's PART of his ability. Not all of it, not the majority of it, part.

So you're saying you'll never judge a midfielder on his attacking ability? So if someone asks you "how is he at goin forward?" you'd reply "don't be daft, midfielder don't have the ability of goin forward and creating chances and if they do; they shouldn't!"

for the second time, I'm not commenting on his overall ability, just the attacking side of his game yesterday....

[den]

So you're saying you'll never judge a midfielder on his attacking ability?

No, read what I'm saying. The number of shots a player gets in during a match has no reflection of his ability.

[super_arran]

Super_arran, do you think likening Andrews scoring a goal to you winning the lottery is helping your case for the defense?

No further questions m'lud.

You're mistaking me for someone who highly rates his general play.

All I'm trying to put a cross is that Andrews didn't play that badly yesterday and that his attacking play was actually quite good.

he doesn't deserve the critism that's being thrown his way for yesterdays performance.

The defence rests your honour

[super_arran]

No, read what I'm saying. The number of shots a player gets in during a match has no reflection of his ability.

No, read what I'm saying in the previous posts (slowly if you have to) and you'll see that the number of shots a midfielder has during a game does reflect his attacking ability.

[den]

No, read what I'm saying in the previous posts (slowly if you have to) and you'll see that the number of shots a midfielder has during a game does reflect his attacking ability.

How? Anyone, however offensively poor, can shoot during a game. It means nothing.

As Bryan said, Ashley Ward took shots during a game, does that mean he was a good centre forward?

[AggyBlue]

How? Anyone, however offensively poor, can shoot during a game. It means nothing.

As Bryan said, Ashley Ward took shots during a game, does that mean he was a good centre forward?

It does show he's not low on confidence despite the boo boys

[Stuart]

You're mistaking me for someone who highly rates his general play.

All I'm trying to put a cross is that Andrews didn't play that badly yesterday and that his attacking play was actually quite good.

he doesn't deserve the critism that's being thrown his way for yesterdays performance.

The defence rests your honour

I wouldn't go so far as to say he 'didn't play that badly'. I think I put it that he didn't play any worse than he has been.

The reason (IMO) that Andrews seemed to not play that badly is that the rest of the team were just as bad. Problem with Andrews is that he has history. And his own thread which is already about 90% full of negative comments.

On the charges of:

Grevious passing

Failure to tackle

Brandishing offensive weapon (index finger)

Verbal assault on colleagues without just cause

Attempted incitement of riots

We find the defendant... guilty... on all charges.

[super_arran]

F

[broadsword]

Best way to judge is with your eyeballs.

A player could have a good or bad game and not have many shots at goal. Or he could have a lot. Doesn't mean anything, it needs to be judged in context.

[super_arran]

How? Anyone, however offensively poor, can shoot during a game. It means nothing.

As Bryan said, Ashley Ward took shots during a game, does that mean he was a good centre forward?

You're missing the point, Andrews is a midfielder, he has a lot more to do than a center forward. And as posted before Andrews overall stats yesterday weren't that bad.

And his attacking stats were very good.

If it was that easy to have a shot at goal, how come so few did?

I see what you're saying, players could shoot from their own half, but since Rovers aren't a primary school team, I doubt this will happen.

If ward had scored loads then yeh he'd be a good center forward, because that's his main job as a forward. He didn't, rendering him rubbish.

So you're saying that no matter how many shots a midfielder has at goal in a single game, it in no way reflects his attacking ability?

den, out of interest How would you judge a midfielders attacking ability?

[super_arran]

I wouldn't go so far as to say he 'didn't play that badly'. I think I put it that he didn't play any worse than he has been.

The reason (IMO) that Andrews seemed to not play that badly is that the rest of the team were just as bad. Problem with Andrews is that he has history. And his own thread which is already about 90% full of negative comments.

On the charges of:

Grevious passing

Failure to tackle

Brandishing offensive weapon (index finger)

Verbal assault on colleagues without just cause

Attempted incitement of riots

We find the defendant... guilty... on all charges.

I thought we were on about Andrews not diouf

I do see what you're on about but I honestly don't believe he played too badly yesterday.

[Steve Moss]

I thought we were on about Andrews not diouf

I do see what you're on about but I honestly don't believe he played too badly yesterday.

I also think Andrews is not terrible. He's not the best, and is not even average, but he's far from the worse in the league. He'd be a perfectly good substitute who has, through no fault of his own, been forced into a starter's role because of injuries.

That being said, I would jump at the chance to replace him. Andrews stats are half-way decent, so he might attract some offers. If someone came in with a decent offer, we should take it. I have faith in Sam that he'd find an improved replacement.

[den]

So you're saying that no matter how many shots a midfielder has at goal in a single game, it in no way reflects his attacking ability?

den, out of interest How would you judge a midfielders attacking ability?

You got it in 6!

I've already said how I would judge a midfielder here.

However, seeing that you ask how I would judge a midfielders "attacking ability", I would say with my eyes - not stats of how many shots he had, but in particular by the number of goals scored over a number of seasons, by his ability to open up a defence on a regular basis, by his ability to go past a player, by his ability to push the opposition onto the back foot through running at defenders, by his ability to put passes in front of players etc.

Not by how many shots he puts in.

[Stuart]

I also think Andrews is not terrible. He's not the best, and is not even average, but he's far from the worse in the league. He'd be a perfectly good substitute who has, through no fault of his own, been forced into a starter's role because of injuries.

That being said, I would jump at the chance to replace him. Andrews stats are half-way decent, so he might attract some offers. If someone came in with a decent offer, we should take it. I have faith in Sam that he'd find an improved replacement.

A well balanced and honest post smoss. (Not that you are usually dishonest, of course!)

He probably isn't the worst player in the league (I'm sure there are some even worse league 2 players) but he's just the worst player in any current Rovers line up. (Even Treacey out on loan has the excuse of being young). Well the worst except for Emerton and Grella...

[super_arran]

You got it in 6!

I've already said how I would judge a midfielder here.

However, seeing that you ask how I would judge a midfielders "attacking ability", I would say with my eyes - not stats of how many shots he had, but in particular by the number of goals scored over a number of seasons, by his ability to open up a defence on a regular basis, by his ability to go past a player, by his ability to push the opposition onto the back foot through running at defenders, by his ability to put passes in front of players etc.

Not by how many shots he puts in.

So shots on goal have nothing to do with attacking ability in a match?.....alright mate

[broadsword]

It's not a materially equivalent relationship.

If you had good attacking ability you'd expect to make a significant number of shots on goal. But having a lot of shots on goal does not necessarily mean you have good attacking ability.

You could shoot every time you got a chance as a midfielder, don't mean jack. You could be thundering it right over instead of putting in another player who's better placed.

Simples.

[Kelbo]

You're missing the point, Andrews is a midfielder, he has a lot more to do than a center forward. And as posted before Andrews overall stats yesterday weren't that bad.

And his attacking stats were very good.

If it was that easy to have a shot at goal, how come so few did?

I see what you're saying, players could shoot from their own half, but since Rovers aren't a primary school team, I doubt this will happen.

If ward had scored loads then yeh he'd be a good center forward, because that's his main job as a forward. He didn't, rendering him rubbish.

So you're saying that no matter how many shots a midfielder has at goal in a single game, it in no way reflects his attacking ability?

den, out of interest How would you judge a midfielders attacking ability?

When he gets forward his distinct lack of pace means he cant get back into position, not quick enough, even when NZonzi gets forward, Andrews job is then to sit, but no he carrys on leaving the back four exposed, thats not attacking ability, thats not being able to hold your position!! If he could pass, tackle, Head or had pace, then yes he would be decent, the fact is he has none of those attributes and despite his efforts on goal, not one forced a save from the keeper!!!

[den]

So shots on goal have nothing to do with attacking ability in a match?.....alright mate

Well you ask me how I judge a midfielder, so I try to explain - and that's all you have to say?

I thought you might come back with a few comments as to how KA matches up to that criteria.

[Kelbo]

I would like to elaborate a little here in the hope that I express myself correctly,

Central Midfielders come in three forms for me, attacking, defensive and box to box.

Savage was a great example of a defensive midfielder, pressing the ball, lots of energy, tackling and then giving it to someone who can play, ie wide man or creative such as Bentley/Tugay!!

Dunny is a great example of an attacking midfielder, creative, good link up play, ability on the ball and scores goals!!

Box to box? Flitcroft, collected the ball from defence, passed it accurately and got on the end of things in the oppositions box!!

If you have three of those in your team (and I illustrate only Rovers players for us to understand more) we would be a top 6 side, no question about it, unfortunately we havent, illustrating those three players and their respective abilities, shows just how poor Andrews is as he possesses none of those attributes and as such, attacking, defensive or box to box is no way to describe him or his game, the only honest attribute I would give the lad is, he works hard!! Yesterday he just about managed averagely against a reserve midfield with two young debutantes, no Richardson, no Cattermole etc

I hope I have expressed myself well!

[super_arran]

Well you ask me how I judge a midfielder, so I try to explain - and that's all you have to say?

I thought you might come back with a few comments as to how KA matches up to that criteria.

I'd just be repeating myself to be fair.

You're saying that you judge a midfielders attacking play in one match on everything but shots.....ignorance is bliss eh?

[Baz]

I'd just be repeating myself to be fair.

You're saying that you judge a midfielders attacking play in one match on everything but shots.....ignorance is bliss eh?

Nope I think he said that he judges on all-round ability over a period of games and not just number of shots in one game.

But that obviously doesn't fit your argument.

Any comment on the stats regarding % passing and no. of tackles raised by Hughsey - or is that not important?

I think the fact is Super Keith just isn't up to it is blindingly obvious to everyone who has watched him in the past 18 months, no matter if some games he raises his game to the level of being equally as bad as some of our other midfielders on that day.

[super_arran]

Nope I think he said that he judges on all-round ability over a period of games and not just number of shots in one game.

But that obviously doesn't fit your argument.

Any comment on the stats regarding % passing and no. of tackles raised by Hughsey - or is that not important?

I think the fact is Super Keith just isn't up to it is blindingly obvious to everyone who has watched him in the past 18 months, no matter if some games he raises his game to the level of being equally as bad as some of our other midfielders on that day.

I totally understand your last paragraph and agree.

All I was after from den is an explaination as to how he judges a midfield players attack ability in an individual game.