[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[CrazyIvan]

If Paul Ince had signed Savage, what would would some be saying about him? That's a question that some would find awkward to answer...

[LDRover]

If Paul Ince had signed Savage, what would would some be saying about him? That's a question that some would find awkward to answer...

Why's that?

Savage was signed as the 'heartbeat' of the team, the 'water carrier' the one who let others play and we all knew what we were getting before he signed, mainly because we'd played against him and hated him because of the way he went about his business. One of those players that you love to have but hate when he's not in your side.

In that respect he never failed us and became a fans' favourite.

The problem with Andrews (and I think 1864 has summed up my feelings exactly elsewhere) is that we've brought in a squad player as opposed to someone who can improve the team. Given the supposed transfer budget and the money generated by sales, compensation for Hughes etc., surely we should have been in the market for someone better for such a key position? The fact that Ince had him as a target from day 1 smacks of a very low ambition threshold.

[T4E]

If Paul Ince had signed Savage, what would would some be saying about him? That's a question that some would find awkward to answer...

What's awkward about it? As with most of the "Hughes men" that Sparky brought in, Savage was proven quality and able to do a job at this level. You cannot say that about Andrews.

It's apples and oranges.

Next you'll be comparing Bellamy to Fowler.

[CrazyIvan]

I wasn't comparing Andrews to Savage, just peoples reaction to the signing of the player by the manager. If Hughes had signed Andrews I bet the reaction wouldn't be the same either. The point I'm making is that Ince signed Andrews and Andrews is turning out to be at least decent and doesn't look like a player with no clue as to how to play the game. People have jumped on Ince and Andrews because they don't like Ince and he signed Andrews.

Answer this then, Hughes signs Andrews. Your reaction to that? Honesty please.

BTW, I don't buy this 'I only sign players who improve the squad' from Hughes. That was rhetoric and people bought it.

[T4E]

Again, it's a bad comparison. If Hughes came from MK Dons in the 4th division, and immediately made signing their captain his top priority, then the reaction would have been exactly the same. If Hughes was in no way previously linked to Andrews but still wanted him as his first signing, the reaction would likely have been negative but slightly less so (Le Chuck's "jobs for the boys" explanation covers the reason for that nicely). If Hughes had stayed and signed Andrews this Summer, 4 years in to the job, I'd imagine everyone would be fine with it as Hughes had proved himself capable of finding such gems.

Hughes earnt respect and the right to be backed unreservedly in these decisions. Ince hasn't done that yet, therefore the reaction is perfectly natural.

[CrazyIvan]

Again, it's a bad comparison. If Hughes came from MK Dons in the 4th division, and immediately made signing their captain his top priority, then the reaction would have been exactly the same. If Hughes was in no way previously linked to Andrews but still wanted him as his first signing, the reaction would likely have been negative but slightly less so (Le Chuck's "jobs for the boys" explanation covers the reason for that nicely). If Hughes had stayed and signed Andrews this Summer, 4 years in to the job, I'd imagine everyone would be fine with it as Hughes had proved himself capable of finding such gems.

Hughes earnt respect and the right to be backed unreservedly in these decisions. Ince hasn't done that yet, therefore the reaction is perfectly natural.

Booing the player on his debut is a natural reaction?

[AndyC]

I actually think it boils down to something else.

The fans who are against Andrews, should actually be venting their spleen at the rovers board, not the manager.

It's pretty clear, that despite the sale of Bentley, the trust has hoovered up the money and put it back into paying off club debts.

Ince was given a budget ( the smallest in premier league history) and told to manage with that.

He signed 2 midfielders that he believed would improve the team and squad - grella and andrews.

Unfortunately for us, we were not in the market for better people, as we don't have the funds.

He clearly saw andrews as someone he could trust to do a job at next to no investment.

It's time for people to stop knocking Ince and Andrews and get behind them.

If you're going to be angry - be angry at the board for not backing the manager with funds that could have taken us onto be a top 6 club.

Why do you think Hughes wanted to go. He was tired of working with no money.

Again, it's a bad comparison. If Hughes came from MK Dons in the 4th division, and immediately made signing their captain his top priority, then the reaction would have been exactly the same. If Hughes was in no way previously linked to Andrews but still wanted him as his first signing, the reaction would likely have been negative but slightly less so (Le Chuck's "jobs for the boys" explanation covers the reason for that nicely). If Hughes had stayed and signed Andrews this Summer, 4 years in to the job, I'd imagine everyone would be fine with it as Hughes had proved himself capable of finding such gems.

Hughes earnt respect and the right to be backed unreservedly in these decisions. Ince hasn't done that yet, therefore the reaction is perfectly natural.

we never booed any of hughes signings.

even franny jeffers was given a chance until he showed he was rubbish.

too many people have not even given andrews a chance at all and it's galling.

[T4E]

Not at all - I didn't say that as you well know. Forget about the booing, we all know that was moronic, I don't think a single person on here has defended that.

My own opinion is very similar to LD's. Thankfully there is some middle ground between booing the lad and thinking he's mustard. Whilst I'm pleased we didn't waste too much money on him, and I'm more than willing to give him the chance, I am concerned at the level of esteem Ince holds him at. By all accounts thus far he hasn't been vindicated by his performances.

[AndyC]

Not at all - I didn't say that as you well know. Forget about the booing, we all know that was moronic, I don't think a single person on here has defended that.

My own opinion is very similar to LD's. Thankfully there is some middle ground between booing the lad and thinking he's mustard. Whilst I'm pleased we didn't waste too much money on him, and I'm more than willing to give him the chance, I am concerned at the level of esteem Ince holds him at. By all accounts thus far he hasn't been vindicated by his performances.

but ince hasnt come out and said he's a world beater has he!!!

he just thinks he can do a job for us.

and as he's both played with and managed, I guess he's in a better position than you to judge!!

[T4E]

It's been well documented that Ince wanted Andrews in from the start - he was one of, if not the top target. JW confirmed as much. That is enough for fans to be concerned about the level of ambition from the incoming manager.

With the amount of money we brought in this Summer it isn't unrealistic to have expected a bigger/better attacking CM signing than Andrews.

[Billy Castell]

Like who T4E? I forget who was knocking about this summer.

As for those who booed Keith, they are scum who should not call themselves Rovers fans.

[T4E]

It's way too easy to give the "Like who?" response. If Keith Andrews was genuinely the only attacking CM available within our price range that we could identify then the whole scouting team needs sacking.

Just to indugle you - Michael Kightly, for one.

[Billy Castell]

Nice side step, you should play rugby if you don't already. Isn't Kightley a right winger?

[BuckyRover]

A promising young England U-21 player in our price range???

HAHAHAHA

I'll have some of what you are on!

[CrazyIvan]

It's been well documented that Ince wanted Andrews in from the start - he was one of, if not the top target. JW confirmed as much. That is enough for fans to be concerned about the level of ambition from the incoming manager.

With the amount of money we brought in this Summer it isn't unrealistic to have expected a bigger/better attacking CM signing than Andrews.

The fact is Ince thinks he is good enough for the Premier League and he hasn't been proved wrong yet. The statistics from the weekends match highlight that at least. He is now, in fact, a Premier League player so was Ince wrong? Some fans didn't give him a chance and those are, in general, the same fans that wrote Ince off before the season started. If anybody else had signed Andrews, Souness or Hughes a lot of people wouldn't have batted an eyelid but because Ince did there are a number of vocal people who have written both off. It isn't fair on either man to do that and doing it just highlights some peoples intransigence and bias.

[den]

Like who T4E? I forget who was knocking about this summer.

Without getting too involved Billy, - to suggest there was no-one in world football available better than Keith Andrews, is ridiculous.

[gumboots]

Without getting too involved Billy, - to suggest there was no-one in world football available better than Keith Andrews, is ridiculous.

Every manager, rightly or wrongly wants someone who is his man. If you're lucky that man turns out to be a gem, like Friedel or tugay were for Souness, or at least exactly what the team needs at the time, as with Hughes and Savage. In our case the manager has come from lower league football. He wants his man and he chooses someone who he thinks can possibly step up from his former team. whether he really can or not remains to be seen, and whether he keeps his place in our first team when other players are fit also remains to be seen but he didn't cost a fortune and he hasn't done anything desperately wrong yet so can't we just give him his chance. Ince is not, contrary to the apparent opinions of certain people, not necessarily on this board but people I meet, a fool and if Andrews really can't do a job that Ince wants doing he will not, when others are fit, play.

[Billy Castell]

That is not what I am saying Den. I just don't know who else was readily available for that role. Inler? what would his wages be? what sort of player is he?

The fact is that those who boo Andrews before he's even had a chance to prove himself are dribbling morons who have no place at Ewood.

I'm asking those who condemned Andrews before he has proved himself to use their supposed expertise to name who they would have tried to sign instead. Which players who were at a higher level would have signed for us on reasonable wages?

[T4E]

Nice side step, you should play rugby if you don't already. Isn't Kightley a right winger?

Rugby's for fat people.

A promising young England U-21 player in our price range???

How much money did we have to spend? Would he have cost much more than Pennant, who we were willing to pay for? Where is Philip when I need him?!

The fact is Ince thinks he is good enough for the Premier League and he hasn't been proved wrong yet. The statistics from the weekends match highlight that at least. He is now, in fact, a Premier League player so was Ince wrong? Some fans didn't give him a chance and those are, in general, the same fans that wrote Ince off before the season started. If anybody else had signed Andrews, Souness or Hughes a lot of people wouldn't have batted an eyelid but because Ince did there are a number of vocal people who have written both off. It isn't fair on either man to do that and doing it just highlights some peoples intransigence and bias.

I don't disagree with you on most of that. I've already covered the Ince/Hughes comparison - there isn't one. Ince is unproven in the transfer market, it's normal to have extra scrutiny on him.

Bottom line is, I'm concerned about the ambition of the manager if signing Andrews was his number one priority, or even close to the top of his list. You'd have to be either mad, or Stevie Wonder like in your faith for it not to bother you. I'll give him a fair crack of the whip, as it would seem will most others on this thread.

If your argument is that we should give him a chance, then I'm right with you. If your argument is that we're wrong to be concerned, then it's not one you're going to win.

[riverside returns]

Given that Andrews has been playing in a league three below ours, he needed time to adjust to the pace of the game. It was, I guess, just purely unfortunate that he had to be thrown in against probably the worlds best midfielder and the leagues best midfield. He has shown a willingness to get involved and shows a box to box mentality. I am sure he was never intended to be our first choice midfielder but if he shows sufficiently then it is a win win situation. Plays well and stays and scores some goals, or like Shefki Kuqi, shows us a nice tidy profit when sold to soem championship team!

Give the boy and Ince a bit of time...

[Amo]

The Arsenal game was more Ince's tactical naivety than anything else. You can't throw a League Two player against somebody like Fabregas for his Premiership debut. I guess Ince had some bizarre notion that if Andrews (SOMEHOW) kept Fabregas in his back-pocket he'd be hailed a genius.

I really don't agree with people that Andrews will be a squad player. He's going to be a first-team regular. Sure, Grella, Dunn, and Vogel were all injured, but Andrews was still chosen ahead of Villanueva, Mokoena, and Tugay who all have Premiership experience (besides Villanueva, but then why ease him into the league and not Andrews?).

[CrazyIvan]

I don't disagree with you on most of that. I've already covered the Ince/Hughes comparison - there isn't one. Ince is unproven in the transfer market, it's normal to have extra scrutiny on him.

Bottom line is, I'm concerned about the ambition of the manager if signing Andrews was his number one priority, or even close to the top of his list. You'd have to be either mad, or Stevie Wonder like in your faith for it not to bother you. I'll give him a fair crack of the whip, as it would seem will most others on this thread.

If your argument is that we should give him a chance, then I'm right with you. If your argument is that we're wrong to be concerned, then it's not one you're going to win.

So we agree? If Ince were only signing lower league players then I would be much more concerned but we've signed a midfielder who is doing a decent job and an up and coming goal keeper that, from all accounts, is going to be top drawer both from those lower leagues. As for the rest, Ince is doing exactly what Hughes did in picking up players from other leagues because Premier League players are too costly both in wages and in transfer fees. I expect Ince will pick up Premier League players in the future but those that Ince looked at signing, but failed, were due to wage demands. That's not Ince's fault. Ince wanted Andrews because he obviously sees something in him. I doubt we've seen the best of Andrews, we all know it takes a while for players to settle in the Premier League and, if it weren't for injury, I doubt we'd be seeing Andrews on for 90 mins every game. The fact he is there and has done a good job means he's no mug so Ince's vision can't be far wrong. He is Ince's man but then so is Carlos.

What is good to see is the younger players getting a chance, Hughes didn't do much of that. If Ince can make us more self-sufficient in utilising the Academy players and letting them prove themselves at Premier League level it can only make us much stronger in the long run and the Academy becomes stronger because kids know they'll get the chance and will want to go there. That, to me, is ambition.

[LDRover]

Like T4E has already said, it's easy to ask who we should have bought, but having asked it what about Tom Huddlestone, Sean Davis, Gary O'Neill?

I'd assume any of these wouldn't have cost a similar amount as we were prepared to pay for Pennant and all would have been a better bet for the midfield berth.

[CrazyIvan]

Like T4E has already said, it's easy to ask who we should have bought, but having asked it what about Tom Huddlestone, Sean Davis, Gary O'Neill?

I'd assume any of these wouldn't have cost a similar amount as we were prepared to pay for Pennant and all would have been a better bet for the midfield berth.

I strongly suspect they would have cost the equal, or more, of Pennant. It's a bit of a moot point anyway as Pennant was coming as a right winger rather than a midfielder.

[RevidgeBlue]

I strongly suspect they would have cost the equal, or more, of Pennant. It's a bit of a moot point anyway as Pennant was coming as a right winger rather than a midfielder.

I was going to say much the same. Don't know anything about the values of the other two but Huddlestone would probably cost a lot more than Pennant.