[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[den]

Its a damn shame, that people who have never played professional football can think so little of a guy playing at the top. His name might not be that of a Brazilian, but the guy gives 100 percent, and doesnt pick himself. When you have players like Dunn and Grella constantly injured, here is a guy who says coach ill do my best for the TEAM even if im back on the bench the following week. Give the guy a break, he has done notthing to deserve the unfair criticism aimed towards him.

Come on Iceman, it's simply opinions.

Some posters get really uptight when it's suggested that certain players aren't [in the opinion of some people] up to the standards required. Obviously some of them aren't, otherwise we wouldn't be struggling as we are. Which players would you say weren't up to it, or should that not be spoken about? Is that taboo as well? Of course not!

[Iceman]

Its been one of those things, when certain players are being targeted because of where they come from. Mokoena was or is still one of them, but these are players you cannot solely blame for performances. Its a team effort, and how many of the players have been up to standard this season who have more ability than Andrews?

[philipl]

Keith Andrews is very limited, sub- PL standard but the lad is giving his all and playing to the very best he can.

That is helping get us out of the doodoo whilst other players are injured, off-form or not pulling their weight. He is a hero if we stay up but I doubt he would be a regular starter next season.

[Guest Vinjay606]

He seems to have a lot of respect for the club (his comments after joining is exactly what I like to hear) and in return he gets my respect.

[riverside returns]

Keep saying it but the boy does his best and is proving to be useful. At least he is fit week in week out and gives 100%.. His distribution on Saturday was woeful at times but he keeps trying. Cannot give more than that if Sam puts him in the side.

[thenodrog]

Because I watch him every week.

If a bad black puddin' played in blue and white halves, you would say it was a good 'un.

Ditto Den. Most of the above have inexplicably never got over losing that fine example of northern delicacy as a manager.

Their devotion is really weird.

[thenodrog]

2nd division wages and be thankful? Should Grella be on 2nd division wages as well? Surely by your rationale he should be on conference wages at best.

KA would have been on 2nd div wages so a raise would hardly be necessary to accompany the chance of a move to a Prem club. In fact I'd imagine he'd have walked a mile over broken glass to sign. Alternatively Grella would already have been on big bucks when Ince signed him, when his contract is up for negotiation again it's a different matter. Why do I have to explain what should be obvious?

[Jonnolad]

Ditto Den. Most of the above have inexplicably never got over losing that fine example of northern delicacy as a manager.

Their devotion is really weird.

Devotion to who?? Paul Ince?

I personally never wanted him as a manager and said so at the time. I then got behind him as manager since it seemed fair to at least give him a go. He failed and had to go. End of.

Who are you suggesting still has a devotion to him?

It just seems to me that we are now entering a new level of delusion whereby you think people are sticking up for Keith Andrews because of some weird devotion to Paul Ince

I can only speak personally here but I'm sticking up for Keith Andrews because he's a decent player, and Sam Allardyce, Giovani Trappatoni, respected football journalists, and most importantly the opta stats seem to agree with me as well!

If anything it seems to be people's continuing dislike for Paul Ince which seems to be blinding them to the fact that Andrews is actually a decent performer. That's just a guess though because I honestly can't explain people's bias in the face of the totally exclusive evidence to the contrary.

Or are the opta stats wrong (not to mention all those people mentioned)?

Both sides can't be right you see.

[DasGelb]

Or are the opta stats wrong (not to mention all those people mentioned)?

The opta stats can´t be trusted at all when it comes to rating players. Bentley was for example rock bottom among the right wingers last season.

I have to agree with you about Andres though. I hope he will well down in the pecking order for next season, but this season he has really given 100%. Not many of our players can say the same.

[gazsimm]

he gives 100% all the time, but sadly i just don't think he is good enough to be at the top level of english football. I think he is a good squad player to have, but after this summer with sam still in charge i think his 1st team chances might be slightly limited. He's only playing now really because of all the injurys we are getting of late.

[sloth_frattelli]

His passing was woeful on Saturday against Spurs. Cannot fault him for effort though.

Be interesting to see where he's playing come August.

[Jonnolad]

His passing was woeful on Saturday against Spurs. Cannot fault him for effort though.

Be interesting to see where he's playing come August.

His pass completion rate was identical to Givet.

Does that surprise you?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

The opta stats can´t be trusted at all when it comes to rating players. Bentley was for example rock bottom among the right wingers last season.

I thought he was one of the slowest runners but the third fastest player in the league when he has possession according to the statto boys. I'm pretty sure he also came 7th in the crossing category (all for the league).

So no, he wasn't.

[Billy Castell]

If we manage to sign a couple of midfielders, I can see him being somone who'll be a squad player/bench warmer who will play should there be an injury crisis. Just like The Axe currently is.

[Jonnolad]

The opta stats can´t be trusted at all when it comes to rating players. Bentley was for example rock bottom among the right wingers last season.

Are you sure? He was the highest rated player for most crosses put in I know that much (I remember because it was the only stat we were top with - the year before the only top stat we had was most offsides for our pie loving Benedict McCarthy):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/ma...p;feed=football

Besides which how can you say they were wrong based on your own perception of Bentley - did you watch every single other game last year and counted the stats yourself on every other right winger?

I'm intrigued.

[Jonnolad]

Just looking at those stats I see that Bentley was also 6th highest player in the league for shots attempted (higher than Berbatov, Tevez and Santa Cruz), hit the woodwork the most times of any player, 6th highest for assists, and 4th for chances created per game.

I'm not entirely sure which stats you were looking at DasGelb but I don't think it was the opta ones.

[den]

Instead of quoting meaningless stats Jonno, watch and work things out for yourself.

[imy9]

Instead of quoting meaningless stats Jonno, watch and work things out for yourself.

Stats are certainly not meaningless as they substantiate what someone is saying.

A clear point is that Andrews pass percentage was the same as Givet's on Saturday, did this happen in the game? Did you notice it? The stats are giving a balance to the constant cra* directed at Andrews who has done more in a Rovers shirt than Vogel, yet that bloke is getting praise after bleeding us dry for a year, not playing on the back of ONE good performance against the Mancs!

[Jonnolad]

Instead of quoting meaningless stats Jonno, watch and work things out for yourself.

Why are they meaningless stats?

Surely they are ideal if people's opinions differ wildly (as they do here when it comes to Andrews), as they are the one thing that are categorically objective not subjective.

I'd bet good money if the stats were backing up your opinion Den then you'd be quite happy with them!

[den]

Surely they are ideal if people's opinions differ wildly (as they do here when it comes to Andrews), as they are the one thing that are categorically objective not subjective.

Err - no. I doubt anyone who's watched a player is going to change their opinion on him because of the Opta stats.

Would you? - clearly you would.

[Majiball]

His pass completion rate was identical to Givet.

Does that surprise you?

No, I too can give players instructions "you Andrews your passing is crap, limit it to 10-15 yd passes so we keep the ball"

Job done pass completion ratio will now go up.

Are you sure? He was the highest rated player for most crosses put in I know that much (I remember because it was the only stat we were top with - the year before the only top stat we had was most offsides for our pie loving Benedict McCarthy):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/ma...p;feed=football

Besides which how can you say they were wrong based on your own perception of Bentley - did you watch every single other game last year and counted the stats yourself on every other right winger?

I'm intrigued.

Again consider the tactics we play. Crosses put in is no good without completion ratings.

Was it not Sam himself who said Andrews was limited, so any manager with some nonce would instruct that player to limit his actions. Andrews himself said he did not expect to play this much this season. Now whilst he has improved his mental and visual attributes will never make the grade, its also rather late in his career and the chances of him stepping up are slim.

Instead of quoting meaningless stats Jonno, watch and work things out for yourself.

As with all science aspects they are a guide and no more.

Science should never and will never be the influencing factor in football, its a crutch no more.

[DE.]

There are far more players who have to stand up and take blame for anything before Andrews does (and managers, INCE, for that matter). It's clear he isn't Premiership quality, but I do think that he can be utilised as a substitute utility player. He's versatile, and works doggedly, which is what you need from a utility player. He hasn't got the skills of his team-mates, but most of his team-mates have been injured/lazy/ineffective over the course of the season and that is not his fault.

I'd have no problems with Andrews being a backup/bench player. A fit and dogged Andrews could put tired players under pressure during games where we're looking for another goal or just want to disrupt the other team's play. Fact is, due to our own failure to sign any other decent central midfielders and the injury list we've picked up, he starts, plays the entire match, and his weaknesses shine through far more than if he would come on for the final twenty/fifteen minutes of a game.

[den]

There are far more players who have to stand up and take blame for anything before Andrews does.

No-one is blaming Andrews for anything. That's a big misconception.

[DE.]

Some comments I've read and people I've spoken to certainly do blame him for poor performances/lack of skill/whatever else. It's less than it was, but still happens.

[Jonnolad]

Err - no. I doubt anyone who's watched a player is going to change their opinion on him because of the Opta stats.

Would you? - clearly you would.

Why clearly would I? I've never changed my opinion - my opinion has always been he's a decent player.

But for agruments sake let's say I thought Andrews was crap and the bloke next to me thought he was decent, then I'd certainly think it was strange that contrary to my own opinion Andrews was being rated as decent in all the match reports in every paper, even stranger if that was happening every week. I'd think it was even stranger again if an experienced manager took over and he rated him enough to start him every week over more established players. If Andrews then strarted to get international call ups from a supremely experienced manager I'd perhaps start to think that the bloke next to me maybe is on to something. If the stats for the game then showed that I was completely wrong with my perception of pass completion / tackling success etc then I'd probably either think that there was a conspiracy against me or I was just plain wrong!