[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[tony gale's mic]

We don't shop in the same shops as Manchester City Den.

KA might not be as good as Gareth Barry, but for sure Barry isn't 12 times better either (as the relative prices might suggest).

I can't see our manager being able to afford / scout for free or cheap / loan in anything better than Keith Andrews in centre mid, so you may have to get used to the fact that he's a mainstay of the side next season.

I wonder if our deluge of new ST holders can be taught to drown out the resident Ewood Park moaners, and actually make KA feel like he's welcome on his home turf? We live in hope.

So what did your blinkered and continued slaggings off of Big Sam towards the end of last season as he was pulling us safe count as?

[Jonnolad]

Why do keep posting this rubbish ?

Your defence of Andrews is becoming more and more ludicrous.

Just saying that without any justification doesn't make it so though, no matter how much you want it to.

I'm quite willing to listen to the basis of your viewpoint - why not respond to my reply to you in the Ince thread?

I'll duplicate the crux of it here for you if that helps:

Opta stats, world class managers picking him to start in crucial International games, our own manager consistently picking him to start, our own manager having enough faith in him to play him well out of position, favourable reports written about him in the press, neutral fans picking him as our best player in on-line stats, one newspaper short listing him as our player of the season.

You tell me though - what do you have to say he's as bad as you make out? I've just supplied the above objective evidence to back up my viewpoint of him being a competent performer for us, so what do you have that backs up your viewpoint of him being dire? Please don't tell me all you have is something along the lines of "he's crap because I say he is"? Personally that would be a bit embarrassing and would make me suspect that you're just being stubborn for stubborn's sake. It isn't all you have though is it surely?

[jim mk2]

I've just supplied the above objective evidence to back up my viewpoint of him being a competent performer for us, so what do you have that backs up your viewpoint of him being dire? Please don't tell me all you have is something along the lines of "he's crap because I say he is"?

Opta stats won't show you that Andrews has a basic fault in his technique in that he cannot kick a ball properly (!), one reason why many of his passes go astray. Opts stats won't also tell you that he does not read the game well and disappears in matches for long periods.

Read this thread from the beginning and you might learn something.

[Jonnolad]

I don't do stats as a rule I just sit in the JW stand middle section and see what I see. I can tell you that I have no problem with KA as a squad player. He's prob cheap in comparison to others, he does try his level best and I cannot knock that BUT if we are to improve as a team then he needs to see most of next season out doing what I do... watching the action from the JW stand..... but a lot lower down.

Mokoena is by rights a CH filling in in deep midfield and is poor I grant you. Injuries aside Grella and Dunn are both much better footballers than KA and thats that. If you disagree with that last bit then you are idiotic.

Dunn has been far far better - in fact I probably hold with the opinion that Dunn on form is probably our best attacking central midfielder. He looked far from that last season though - the game against Arsenal was embarrassing for him at times. As for Grella, again he's looked very competent in the past with other teams, but he's rarely, if ever, reproduced that form for us in the Premier League last season. And surely that's what counts - how they are now playing for us in a Rovers shirt, not their potential - we can't keep waiting indefinitely for potential - this isn't top trumps!

I agree though that if we to regain our form under Hughes we have to look at someone better than Andrews starting - although if financial constraits are worse than we'd like and other lesser performers (Grella, Dunn etc) are given a chance, then I certainly don't see why Andrews can't be afforded the same privilege.

[gumboots]

I don't do stats as a rule I just sit in the JW stand middle section and see what I see. I can tell you that I have no problem with KA as a squad player. He's prob cheap in comparison to others, he does try his level best and I cannot knock that

My view exactly. Every team needs someone who can stay fit, come on when required and do a decent if totally unspectacular job. We will not find anyone else who fits a number of roles as adequately as andrews for the money we would get if we sold him. I don't want to see him play week in, week out in CM or at RB or anywhere else, but I can't see people's problem with his being in an 18 man squad. We are not rich. we need new first team players in several positions and then we need versatile, adequate players who can do whatever job the manager asks if required. That to me is Keith andrews.

[Jonnolad]

Opta stats won't show you that Andrews has a basic fault in his technique in that he cannot kick a ball properly (!), one reason why many of his passes go astray. Opts stats won't also tell you that he does not read the game well and disappears in matches for long periods.

Read this thread from the beginning and you might learn something.

That's it? That's your evidence to back up your viewpoint that Andrews is dire? Some subjective drivel about the opta stats not showing everything? Sorry to be frank but that's poor, really poor.

In other words you have absolutely zero objective evidence to say that Andrews is dire - all you basically have is you saying "he's crap because I say he is". Don't forget that this viewpoint flies in the face of the evidence I've just produced - in fact your viewpoint flies in the face of all the available objective evidence since you can't actually produce any.

Therefore don't you possibly think your viewpoint on Andrews is perhaps unduly baised? Just a bit? Maybe just a teeny weeny bit?

[jim mk2]

That's it? That's your evidence to back up your viewpoint that Andrews is dire? Some subjective drivel about the opta stats not showing everything? Sorry to be frank but that's poor, really poor.

In other words you have absolutely zero objective evidence to say that Andrews is dire - all you basically have is you saying "he's crap because I say he is". Don't forget that this viewpoint flies in the face of the evidence I've just produced - in fact your viewpoint flies in the face of all the available objective evidence since you can't actually produce any.

Therefore don't you possibly think your viewpoint on Andrews is perhaps unduly baised? Just a bit? Maybe just a teeny weeny bit?

This is getting tedious.

Are you thick or bone-headed or both ?

Opta stats prove nothing ! Any blithering idiot can twists statistics to prove anything they want.

Someone with only a modicum of football knowledge can see with their own eyes that Andrews is a poor player and not, in your own immortal words, "good enough enough for the Prem".

[den]

I don't want to see him play week in, week out in CM or at RB or anywhere else, but I can't see people's problem with his being in an 18 man squad.

You see GB, this is where I have a problem. I think it's fair to say that most people don't want to see him in the first team regularly? That must mean that most people don't really think he's good enough for this league, otherwise they would be happy to see him play more regularly?

So, the main argument is that he's OK for cover? But how does that pan out? He's either good enough for this level - or he's not. I don't want a squad where your first stand in isn't up to it.

[CrazyIvan]

This is getting tedious.

Are you thick or bone-headed or both ?

Opta stats prove nothing ! Any blithering idiot can twists statistics to prove anything they want.

Someone with only a modicum of football knowledge can see with their own eyes that Andrews is a poor player and not, in your own immortal words, "good enough enough for the Prem".

This is tedious. You say statistics can be twisted any way you want. I would say in this case that is a very weak argument. Andrews is better than you say he is. Just agree to disagree and shut up about it.

[joey_big_nose]

This is getting tedious.

Are you thick or bone-headed or both ?

Opta stats prove nothing ! Any blithering idiot can twists statistics to prove anything they want.

Someone with only a modicum of football knowledge can see with their own eyes that Andrews is a poor player and not, in your own immortal words, "good enough enough for the Prem".

The fact that Andrews is as effective as anyone who is available to play central midfield at four or five clubs in the Prem - including ourselves - undermines this argument.

Technically he is weaker than most, but he is fit and a worker. He does a job. He chips in with a goal. He will be here next season and play at least 20 games. Get used to it. Its pointless having a lot of technically excellent players who are consistently either injured or not bothered a la Newcastle. Last season Andrews gave the team more than Grella, Dunn, Reid, Vogel and Mokoena.

That should be respected.

[Mozzer]

keith andrews is simply not good enough to be starting for rovers-right back or central midfield-im sure if we didnt have so many injuries he wouldnt of got so many games...

however-he could be a decent squad man-coming off the bench-trying to get a goal etc etc...

[Hughesy]

And which of them do you actually anticipate being fit and more importantly staying fit for any number of games? Emerton possibly although who knows how and when he will come back but as for the others, even with allardyce generally being better on keeping players fit than our previous manager, I don't hold out much hope.

I honestly think Reid & Emerton will stay fairly fit - im not sure about Dunn though.

[Al]

The fact that Andrews is as effective as anyone who is available to play central midfield at four or five clubs in the Prem - including ourselves - undermines this argument.

Technically he is weaker than most, but he is fit and a worker. He does a job. He chips in with a goal. He will be here next season and play at least 20 games. Get used to it. Its pointless having a lot of technically excellent players who are consistently either injured or not bothered a la Newcastle. Last season Andrews gave the team more than Grella, Dunn, Reid, Vogel and Mokoena.

That should be respected.

Your argument is fatally flawed because the first sentence is not true.

I would argue that both Grella and Dunn even though they did not play as often are different class than Andrews. The other three are also not good enough for the Premiership and did not play very much.

I'm with Den. If they are only good enough to be squad players they are not Premiership players. Andrews is only fit to wear a shirt when you are scraping the barrel.

If we are offered more than £1mil I will drive him in my car to get his wage off the books. (And drive off as soon as his feet are on the ground)

[gumboots]

You see GB, this is where I have a problem. I think it's fair to say that most people don't want to see him in the first team regularly? That must mean that most people don't really think he's good enough for this league, otherwise they would be happy to see him play more regularly?

So, the main argument is that he's OK for cover? But how does that pan out? He's either good enough for this level - or he's not. I don't want a squad where your first stand in isn't up to it.

I think a lot of people think he's not good enough to be a regular starter in this league. Nor are a lot of players. However, most people know that we simply cannot afford to carry a big enough squad so that every player is as good if not better on that particular day as the player he would replace. that's the difference between us and most bigger clubs - they can afford to have players on their bench who would make the starting line up of many teams in the prem and those players are happy to sit there because they are at Arsenal, or Man U or whoever. We can't do that and that's why a player like andrews who is usually fit, willing, doesn't ask for a lot and gives everything whenever and wherever he is on the pitch is important to us.

[tcj_jones]

Opta stats won't show you that Andrews has a basic fault in his technique in that he cannot kick a ball properly (!), one reason why many of his passes go astray. Opts stats won't also tell you that he does not read the game well and disappears in matches for long periods.

Read this thread from the beginning and you might learn something.

Opta stats might also tell you that he has a good pass completion rate, but they don't reveal the fact that the completed passes were all made over three yard distances to players either in line with himself or going backwards.

I'll hold my hands up, his tackling stats aren't bad, certainly not worthy of the criticism I gave him in that respect. However, everything else I said holds true.

Also, as a defensive-minded midfielder, you'd probably expect him to have the highest number of tackles. It's also important to note that he has probably made the highest number of appearances for the club this season and, when played out of position, was played in defence and not up front (Samba).

[CrazyIvan]

Opta stats might also tell you that he has a good pass completion rate, but they don't reveal the fact that the completed passes were all made over three yard distances to players either in line with himself or going backwards.

I'll hold my hands up, his tackling stats aren't bad, certainly not worthy of the criticism I gave him in that respect. However, everything else I said holds true.

Also, as a defensive-minded midfielder, you'd probably expect him to have the highest number of tackles. It's also important to note that he has probably made the highest number of appearances for the club this season and, when played out of position, was played in defence and not up front (Samba).

Check the appearance stats, they are there.

[roverthemoon]

This is getting tedious.

Are you thick or bone-headed or both ?

Opta stats prove nothing ! Any blithering idiot can twists statistics to prove anything they want.

Someone with only a modicum of football knowledge can see with their own eyes that Andrews is a poor player and not, in your own immortal words, "good enough enough for the Prem".

Andrews has been one of the better players internationaly for the ROI and has been an adequate performer for rovers over the past season as I am sure any blithering idiot with a modicum of football knowledge can see.

[Jonnolad]

This is getting tedious.

Are you thick or bone-headed or both ?

Opta stats prove nothing ! Any blithering idiot can twists statistics to prove anything they want.

Someone with only a modicum of football knowledge can see with their own eyes that Andrews is a poor player and not, in your own immortal words, "good enough enough for the Prem".

You seem to be completely missing the point.

We both obviously see a different player when we watch Andrews; you think he's not good enough for the Prem, I think he is (albeit as a squad player). That happens to a greater or lesser degree with all people when viewing all players. Some people rate some players as an 8 for instance; others will only rate them as a 6. Read any match review on here and you'll see that. It's called being subjective. We can argue till we're blue in the face about the differing views we've observed about a player, but at the end of the day it's still subjective (skewed, slanted, biased, prejudiced, whatever).

If you aren't clear on that point, then please re-read it.

Now, when people have such differing views, i.e. some people think Andrews is "the worst central mid player in the prem", others think he is an "effective squad player", then it's obviously worthwhile looking at any evidence which isn't subjective (or at least is less subjective). Evidence like this is called objective (impartial, unbiased, neutral). Some would say objective evidence, by its very nature, is the only way to judge things like this incidentally, especially when there are such differing subjective views involved.

Are you still with me? If not please re-read again.

Now, as it happens, the all-important objective evidence on Andrews last season all points to the fact that Andrews was a competent premier league performer, not necessarily outstanding, but certainly not the "the worst central mid player in the prem".

Objective evidence which backs this up is:

Opta stats

World class managers picking him to start in crucial International games

Our own manager consistently picking him to start

Our own manager having enough faith in him to play him well out of position

Favourable reports written about him in the press

Neutral fans picking him as our best player in on-line stats

One newspaper short listing him as our player of the season

Now you can argue about not agreeing with Opta stats etc, but when you are having to ignore all the objective evidence which points to him being a competent performer in the prem, and you have absolutely no objective evidence to back up your own viewpoint (which in fairness you haven't), then your viewpoint starts to look extremely weak. Some would even say you being unduly biased in your negative viewpoint, which would be fair since all the evidence you have used to form this opinion is, by its nature, biased.

Do you understand that, if not please re-read it.

Now, I can understand if we were both arguing about our subjective views on Andrews here but we're not. My viewpoint is backed up by objective evidence and yours isn't - that seems fairly simple to me. As such I think I would be quite justified in saying that you are stubbornly being biased against the player for no other reason than you say you are right. That might do for the playground but, personally, that isn't really good enough for adult discussion. I mean what's the point of discussion if all we both say is "I'm right", with little objective justification of our viewpoint?

Do you agree / disagree (or was that completely lost on you)?

[dazmaz]

at first i couldnt stand aandrews and would of gladly done what all the anti andrews fans are doing.. but over the season iv seen him grow and he has become a hell of alot better..

think back to the start of the season... where he could jump further than he could kick. but towards the end of the season he has been a key player to us. okay so hes not a world class, but he does have his heart in the right place. andrews and warnock are the only 2 players to actually give everything they have week in week out. over the season his confidence has grown (like robbos) and he has also gotten better. jumping up 3 leagues to the most diffcult league in the world is alot to ask of anyone.

i think the people who are slating him have their heads us their arses and still think we have jacks millions and we are able to buy world class players. guess what.. we dont have big bucks anymore and players like andrews who give their all are the players we want.. or the people slating his belive they can play better football than him, in that case, if your soooo good at football why arnt you a pro player??

at the end of the day the play for Blackburn Rovers. so stop b!tch!ng about 90% of the players we have on our books AND SUPPORT THE TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHOS PLAYING FOR US!!!!

[unluckymorton]

at first i couldnt stand aandrews and would of gladly done what all the anti andrews fans are doing.. but over the season iv seen him grow and he has become a hell of alot better..

think back to the start of the season... where he could jump further than he could kick. but towards the end of the season he has been a key player to us. okay so hes not a world class, but he does have his heart in the right place. andrews and warnock are the only 2 players to actually give everything they have week in week out. over the season his confidence has grown (like robbos) and he has also gotten better. jumping up 3 leagues to the most diffcult league in the world is alot to ask of anyone.

i think the people who are slating him have their heads us their arses and still think we have jacks millions and we are able to buy world class players. guess what.. we dont have big bucks anymore and players like andrews who give their all are the players we want.. or the people slating his belive they can play better football than him, in that case, if your soooo good at football why arnt you a pro player??

at the end of the day the play for Blackburn Rovers. so stop b!tch!ng about 90% of the players we have on our books AND SUPPORT THE TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHOS PLAYING FOR US!!!!

I'm with you pal.

Andrews has come on leaps and bounds. If he continues to improve, and I think he will under Sam's guidance, he will turn into a key player for us.

Please add Samba to your list of players who gave it their all. Samba could easily have tried to manufacture a move away from the club when the going was tough be he fought for the cause.

We have to make the most of what we've got and strengthen in the best way possible with the limited funds that we have got. I really don't understand so called fans being prepared to let the likes of Andrews and MGP go.

These will be the same people who were calling Emerton, Emerton had improved immensely until his injury knocked him back. I really hope he comes back and hit's the same form as he was at when he was struck by the injury.

[Jonnolad]

at first i couldnt stand aandrews and would of gladly done what all the anti andrews fans are doing.. but over the season iv seen him grow and he has become a hell of alot better..

think back to the start of the season... where he could jump further than he could kick. but towards the end of the season he has been a key player to us. okay so hes not a world class, but he does have his heart in the right place. andrews and warnock are the only 2 players to actually give everything they have week in week out. over the season his confidence has grown (like robbos) and he has also gotten better. jumping up 3 leagues to the most diffcult league in the world is alot to ask of anyone.

i think the people who are slating him have their heads us their arses and still think we have jacks millions and we are able to buy world class players. guess what.. we dont have big bucks anymore and players like andrews who give their all are the players we want.. or the people slating his belive they can play better football than him, in that case, if your soooo good at football why arnt you a pro player??

at the end of the day the play for Blackburn Rovers. so stop b!tch!ng about 90% of the players we have on our books AND SUPPORT THE TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHOS PLAYING FOR US!!!!

Hopefully next season I might have a few more takers when I start a "super Keith" chant in the Blackburn end No-one joined in with me after he bagged us the equaliser against WHam!

Can't believe some of our fans booed him as well half way through the year - bit poor that to be honest.

[Fife Rover]

I don't do stats as a rule I just sit in the JW stand middle section and see what I see. I can tell you that I have no problem with KA as a squad player. He's prob cheap in comparison to others, he does try his level best and I cannot knock that BUT if we are to improve as a team then he needs to see most of next season out doing what I do... watching the action from the JW stand..... but a lot lower down.

Mokoena is by rights a CH filling in in deep midfield and is poor I grant you. Injuries aside Grella and Dunn are both much better footballers than KA and thats that. If you disagree with that last bit then you are idiotic.

There is no doubt about it....there are a number of people on here who for whatever reason seem to have a real down on Andrews. I actually agree with your summation of the situation Theno. KA is not the best midfielder we have by any means in the technical sense, but he is a wholehearted tryer and never gives less than his best. Now I do realise that his best is nowhere near as good as Dunn or Grella when both of them are at their best, but in the season just gone how often did it happen that either of them were at their best? I can only remember one or two games at the most. So for me the contribution made by Andrews over the whole of last season was far more valuable to Rovers cause than the contributions of either Dunn or Grella over the whole season.

Andrews is a useful squad player and he undoubtedly is well worth his place in the squad either on the bench or as a starter when other more technically competent players are not available. Anyone who can't see that is just being biased against the lad.

[Al]

Andrews is a useful squad player and he undoubtedly is well worth his place in the squad either on the bench or as a starter when other more technically competent players are not available. Anyone who can't see that is just being biased against the lad.

Sorry then Fife I must be biased then, but apart from running about a lot, I can see no points in his favour except for having the guts (or is it pig headedness) to come here when it was so obvious that none of the supporters wanted him, and that he was bound to get the reception that he inevitably got.

I am sure that his new supporters only see work rate and are not concerened about skill levels.

Don't quote stats to me they are meaningless and don't try to tell me that Sam would have picked him if there had been anybody else, much less would Sam have signed him if he was not already saddled with him when he arrived.

[unluckymorton]

Hopefully next season I might have a few more takers when I start a "super Keith" chant in the Blackburn end No-one joined in with me after he bagged us the equaliser against WHam!

Can't believe some of our fans booed him as well half way through the year - bit poor that to be honest.

I'm well up for the Super Keith chant, I was only thinking of that on my way into work the other morning.

[jim mk2]

Sorry then Fife I must be biased then, but apart from running about a lot, I can see no points in his favour except for having the guts (or is it pig headedness)

Don't quote stats to me they are meaningless

Sorry Al, opinions and sentiment count for nothing.

Opta stats prove Andrews is a top Premier League player and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.