[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[American]

He played a significant part this season.

For a club that wasn't relegated. Proves that he has what it takes to be a regular Premiership player.

I think most of us want to aim higher than bottom half of the league. Him as a starter won't get us there, but him as a starter would keep us safe, although probably somewhere from 14-17.

[Fife Rover]

Sorry then Fife I must be biased then, but apart from running about a lot, I can see no points in his favour except for having the guts (or is it pig headedness) to come here when it was so obvious that none of the supporters wanted him, and that he was bound to get the reception that he inevitably got.

I am sure that his new supporters only see work rate and are not concerened about skill levels.

Don't quote stats to me they are meaningless and don't try to tell me that Sam would have picked him if there had been anybody else, much less would Sam have signed him if he was not already saddled with him when he arrived.

Al I don't think you have read what I said in my post. For a start I was against him too, but not because Ince signed him as some kind of "old pals" deal. No I based my opinion on what I saw in front of my eyes in each match, and there is no doubt that at first he was just totally out of his depth. He was trying hard but he just had not got it. But then as the season progressed and he got more games under his belt there is no doubt at all that he did improve. He scored a number of goals that gave us results we would not have got without his goals, and in doing so he showed that he was reading the game and getting into the right position at the right time. If it only happened once you could say it pure luck and nothing to do with good play, but not 4 times ..come on!

Then there were the goal line clearances (was it 3 or 4; I forget?). Again good positional play and good reading of the game. He produced the goods for his team. Not good luck but good football.

Next we come to his passing ability. A number of people have stated quite specifically that Andrews just cannot make a pass. Well again that is just plain wrong. Obviously I cannot quote each and every one of his perfectly good passes that he made over a season but I most certainly DID see him make a number of very good passes in various matches. Once more showing that he can and does read the game fairly well. The one pass that stands out in my memory was one he made in the 2nd half of the last game against WBA. He collected the ball in his RB postion way out on the Riverside touchline possibly about 20 yds up from Rovers own goal line, took a touch and looked up and spotted MGP out on the far touch line and well advanced and in a good position to break past their defence. He never hesitated but just hit a perfect ball straight to Ped's feet.... a distance of at the very least 40 yds. But people say he simply cannot pass a ball, and I say rubbish... of course he can! He does not do it all the time, but then who does?

What else? Oh yes people say he cant tackle.....Ok I agree he is not all that good in that department, but to be fair he does not go flying in and give stupid fouls away and get booked or sent off like Lucas Neil used to do for instance.

So to sum up then:- I agree that Keith Andrews is not the most gifted footballer that ever wore a Rovers shirt (a million miles off that) but he does give 100% and he never gives up or sulks or throws a hissy fit if he finds himself on the bench for the next match when he probably thinks he deserves a start. Also he is certainly lacking in the finer technical skills but again he does not let that stop him from trying hard and doing his best in every match he plays. Plus the fact that as he gets more ganes he is also improving. He will never be any more than a reliable journey man at this level, but at least he is exactly that ...RELIABLE.It is a great pity that some of our more gifted players can't do the same.

[DE.]

Al I don't think you have read what I said in my post. For a start I was against him too, but not because Ince signed him as some kind of "old pals" deal. No I based my opinion on what I saw in front of my eyes in each match, and there is no doubt that at first he was just totally out of his depth. He was trying hard but he just had not got it. But then as the season progressed and he got more games under his belt there is no doubt at all that he did improve. He scored a number of goals that gave us results we would not have got without his goals, and in doing so he showed that he was reading the game and getting into the right position at the right time. If it only happened once you could say it pure luck and nothing to do with good play, but not 4 times ..come on!

Then there were the goal line clearances (was it 3 or 4; I forget?). Again good positional play and good reading of the game. He produced the goods for his team. Not good luck but good football.

Next we come to his passing ability. A number of people have stated quite specifically that Andrews just cannot make a pass. Well again that is just plain wrong. Obviously I cannot quote each and every one of his perfectly good passes that he made over a season but I most certainly DID see him make a number of very good passes in various matches. Once more showing that he can and does read the game fairly well. The one pass that stands out in my memory was one he made in the 2nd half of the last game against WBA. He collected the ball in his RB postion way out on the Riverside touchline possibly about 20 yds up from Rovers own goal line, took a touch and looked up and spotted MGP out on the far touch line and well advanced and in a good position to break past their defence. He never hesitated but just hit a perfect ball straight to Ped's feet.... a distance of at the very least 40 yds. But people say he simply cannot pass a ball, and I say rubbish... of course he can! He does not do it all the time, but then who does?

What else? Oh yes people say he cant tackle.....Ok I agree he is not all that good in that department, but to be fair he does not go flying in and give stupid fouls away and get booked or sent off like Lucas Neil used to do for instance.

So to sum up then:- I agree that Keith Andrews is not the most gifted footballer that ever wore a Rovers shirt (a million miles off that) but he does give 100% and he never gives up or sulks or throws a hissy fit if he finds himself on the bench for the next match when he probably thinks he deserves a start. Also he is certainly lacking in the finer technical skills but again he does not let that stop him from trying hard and doing his best in every match he plays. Plus the fact that as he gets more ganes he is also improving. He will never be any more than a reliable journey man at this level, but at least he is exactly that ...RELIABLE.It is a great pity that some of our more gifted players can't do the same.

Agree, this is a good post.

Andrews isn't the kind of player that would start week in, week out in a top ten team... but he's a good squad player for any team outside the top 6. Versatile, level-headed, hard-working and likely on pretty cheap wages. Technically he's poor, but there are far more talented players in our own squad and in other teams that have made less of an impact over the season because they don't have the same work rate as Andrews. A shame to see people vehemently slagging off a genuinely hard working lad, and then blaming him for moving here unbelievable.

[den]

For a club that wasn't relegated. Proves that he has what it takes to be a regular Premiership player.

I think most of us want to aim higher than bottom half of the league. Him as a starter won't get us there, but him as a starter would keep us safe, although probably somewhere from 14-17.

I bet you wish that you had read plastic heads post above yours first

[blue phil]

You wont however convince me that he's got the ability to be a regular Prem player.

Illogical . He has already proved himself to be a regular prem player ; therefore he does have the ability .

Furthermore - next season , particularly if we have the dodgy triumvirate of Dunn , Grella and Reid , in Sam's plans for a midfield , he will be again a regular starter - and therefore a regular prem player .

The Andrews detractors had better get used to the idea that it's a squad game nowadays .....there's no such thing as a permanent starting eleven who are "prem" players with the others being "crap"* non prem players .

* Not your word , I know - that descriptive wonder comes from one of our more cerebrally challenged members .

[American]

I bet you wish that you had read plastic heads post above yours first

If my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle.

It's fun to speculate. I could say that if we had signed Robinho we would have been relegated. No way to prove me wrong.

Still is a FACT that he was a regular Premiership player last season (which you said he will never be), and was picked by another manager besides the one who brought him in.

[den]

Still is a FACT that he was a regular Premiership player last season (which you said he will never be), and was picked by another manager besides the one who brought him in.

As was Aaron Mokoena.

[rebelmswar]

He played a part in the team and he played with his heart, he tried his best and a blindman could see it.

Andrews may not be Gods gift to the pitch but he is a Rover and more importantly he worked as one.

Thats my two pennith.

[American]

As was Aaron Mokoena.

Who might I add has signed with another Premiership club....

[Exiled in Toronto]

Who might I add has signed with another Premiership club....

...having appeared in 101 premier league games so far, hence proving he is not a premier league player!

I don't like the Axe much either, but anyone who appears 101 times under 3 managers is probably meeting the definition of being a premier league player.

20 clubs with 30+ players each season appearing at some stage means that there will be quite a wide spread of ability across 600+ players for what constitutes 'premier league quality'. Personally, I think Andrews by the end of the season scraped into that definition, more for his engine that enabled him to both score and make goal-line clearances.

[bazza]

WOW!! Just rattled through the last three pages of this thread. Phew!!!................

I think the subject of Keith Andrews should be shovelled into the House of Commons a.s.a.p. THEN we'd see the skin and hair flying!!

I've never seen so much Ya.Boo argument in all my life.

Can we have a Poll please on whether or not we want (and will appreciate) KA to stay with the Rovers?

Sorry Al, Den, Jim Mk2 and others but I'm with Jonnolad, Tris and others on this. I would be very disappointed to see him leave the club this summer as I think he has a lot to offer. I'd be almost as gutted as seeing Matt Derbyshire leave.

Also you lot don't forget Football is a wonderful subject for differences of opinion to be aired. So keep on being friends, hey?

[MeanGreenMachine]

Andrews worked hard and did a job while we had a torrid time with injurys. He has a good engine and is full of commitment.

Sadly he has the footballing ability of a wet flannel.

Good squad player? Maybe

Is he the sort of player to push us up the league and be gunning for europe again. Not at all.

[Kelbo]

The lad gives 100%, works hard and did a reasonable job!!

Unfortunately, technically he is poor and in a premiership full of good technical players, he is not up to standard!

Kevin Gallacher said very similar in yeasterdays Telegraph, that he needs to work on the technical side of his game,but he's 28, its too late!!

[Majiball]

Gotta say Kelbo's hit the nail on the head. If an offer comes in, thats good for us and Keith I'm sure he'll go, if not he'll be a squadie, either ways fine.

Curiously on the "stats debate" why don't you compare keiths against lower level central midfielders???? Pick a poor team say hull and compare like with like.

[joey_big_nose]

Has there ever been a rover who has sparked as much debate as Keith Andrews? Its an Irish question Gladstone would have wrestled with....

[den]

Also you lot don't forget Football is a wonderful subject for differences of opinion to be aired. So keep on being friends, hey?

Oh absolutely Bazza. We're all just a load of pussy cat's really. Wouldn't dare talk to each other face to face, like we do on here sometimes.

[tcj_jones]

I've produced what I feel is a pretty good analysis of the opta stats available, but don't know how to enter them into the thread. When I copy and paste, it is far too confusing.

How do I insert a chart / table?

[Amo]

It's a simple situation with Andrews. He works hard to compensate for his lack of class, and makes a decent squad player. But if someone offers £2m+ I'd bite their hand off.

[thenodrog]

Absolutely never too late. Tugay, like a fine wine, got better with age IMO.

1. We don't know how good he was in his 20's.

2. From what I can gather he didn't work on much except keep ups.

[alexanders]

I hope Andrews is being named as our captain next year.

[AggyBlue]

I hope Andrews is being named as our captain next year.

Stop antagonising the grumpies.

[alexanders]

Stop antagonising the grumpies.

Haha.

[tcj_jones]

Personally, I tend not to pay too much attention to the opta stats. While they serve as a useful aid in analysing player performance, I do not feel they tell the whole story. However, if people are going to throw these stats around to support their argument, then I believe that they deserve a more in depth analysis.

Below is a table with the more important statistics included (those I feel are most important for a central midfielder are highlighted in yellow). I have selected the players whose stats are available from the web site provided and who played predominantly in CM last season. I have added a few success rate % rows and, in the column next to each player, is the frequency of each event in minutes (for eg, Andrews attempted 90 tackles in 2384 minutes at a rate of 1 tackle to every 26.49 minutes).

(CLICK FOR FULL SIZE)

(post to follow).

[tcj_jones]

Defence = Best

What would appear to be the strongest side of Andrews' game is defending. His tackle success rate (76.67%) is higher than Warnock (73.12%), Emerton (67.74%), Grella (72.73%) and Mokoena (54.54%). He also attempts the more tackles (1 every 26.49 mins) than Warnock (35.2), Emerton (54.16), Grella (27.84) and Mokoena (38). Meanwhile, his blocked shots ratio is far superior, he has made more goal line clearances and we tend to concede less goals when either he or Warnock is on the pitch.

Interestingly, however, his interception rate (1 every 95.36 mins) is far inferior to all of Warnock (41.97), Emerton (83.95), Grella (51.04) and Mokoena (34.83), he commits more fouls than everybody bar Grella, though doesn't tend to get booked all too often, and his total clearances made are less than Warnock and Mokoena but more than Emerton and Grella.

Take from that what you will.

Passing / Possession

Andrews pass completion rate is sound (74.48%) and inferior only to Emerton (80.69%), however, he does tend to play significantly less passes over 25 yards (1 every 21.67 mins) than Warnock (14.62) and Grella (14.24). Furthermore, Andrews tended to play far less key passes or assists (1 every 158.93 mins) than Warnock (112.9) and Emerton (64.58), whose passes would appear to have been more important. Andrews tended to lose possession (once every 91.7 mins) more so than Warnock (121.26) and Grella (94.23). He was better in this respect though than Emerton (somewhat surprisingly) and Mokoena (69.67). What we can also see is that Andrews attempted far less passes (1 every 2.48 mins) than Grella (1.89) and less than Warnock (2.35) also.

Involvement / Importance

The stats would appear to suggest that Andrews was less involved than all bar Mokoena with 1 touch of the ball in every 1.58 minutes compared with Warnock (1.35), Emerton (1.47), Grella (1.31). The stats would suggest that it was Warnock and Grella who were most willing to get on the ball.

Of course, it's never this simple. What we tend to overlook is the fact that different players have played in different positions, been injured during purple patches, played under different managers and with different players etc etc. Oh and add to that the fact that Tugay isn't included.

[CrazyIvan]

Personally, I tend not to pay too much attention to the opta stats. While they serve as a useful aid in analysing player performance, I do not feel they tell the whole story. However, if people are going to throw these stats around to support their argument, then I believe that they deserve a more in depth analysis.

Below is a table with the more important statistics included (those I feel are most important for a central midfielder are highlighted in yellow). I have selected the players whose stats are available from the web site provided and who played predominantly in CM last season. I have added a few success rate % rows and, in the column next to each player, is the frequency of each event in minutes (for eg, Andrews attempted 90 tackles in 2384 minutes at a rate of 1 tackle to every 26.49 minutes).

(CLICK FOR FULL SIZE)

(post to follow).

One thing that is missing, and is in my mind pretty important for any midfielder, is goals scored which was something Andrews did very well. Add that into the equation and I think you'll find him better than all of the other players.