[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The crux of the matter is that Rovers have to look for better quality than Andrews if we are to progress as a club this coming season,I saw enough last season to see this fella is championship level at best.

[sambo]

The crux of the matter is that Rovers have to look for better quality than Andrews if we are to progress as a club this coming season,I saw enough last season to see this fella is championship level at best.

Agreed, although I don't dislike him like some do.

[Majiball]

Retired.

[bellamy11]

If you had sat through as many games as I have through a season, sometimes 4 per week, to be too precise I would probably be wrong, but, on two occassions I distinctly remember him playing a simple ball, which turned out to be a hospitl ball, looked as though (on one occassion as though Tugay was tackled) when in fact the ball played Tugs into trouble, with many prem midfielders they have the pace to get back and recover, dont simply think, oh, he's passed it and someone else gets tackled its not his fault, it is, as the quality of pass was simply not good enough.

Too many fans get blinkered and dont see the whole picture. A midfielder has three duties, pressure and support to both the defence and attack and to pick out a pass, Tugay, because of his quality could do this as he has what I describe as a football brain, it gives you an extra yard, thats why Bobby Moore was good, not very quick but his thinking was quicker than others, he read the game.

Savage wasnt a great footballer but he was quick out of the traps, pressed the ball and got his tackles in, his directive from Sparky was, win it and give it to Tugay!!!

Watch the old videos of Rovers under Hughes and Savage was in midfield, watch how quickly he closed the ball down, the opposition didnt have any respite, then watch him play the ball to Tugay or Bentley and thats how we were successful under Sparky. Its no coincidence our performances dipped when Savage stopped playing for Rovers, he was pretty quick, a terrier type player.

With Tugay and Andrews in the centre, we had no pace and this will have to be addressed, once the opposition get through our slow midfield, they are straight onto our defence.

Sams first game he pulled Andrews back and let him do a defensive role, defended in two banks of four, and when we got possession of the ball went at Stoke on the break, simple and basic coaching, prior to that our midfield were too far up the park and no pace to get back!!

Remember, and this is not trying to be clever here, many have mentioned the four goals he scored, granted in the games in which he scored they were important, but four goals for the number of games he played is not something special.

Lampard, Gerrard, Ronaldo, Cahill, Ireland and even Taylor at Bolton all scored at least twice as many goals last season as Andrews did !!

I have said previously, the lad tries hard, works his socks off and maybe as a makeshift off the bench ok, but dont get deluded here, he is not a premiership player, he simply doesnt have the neccssary technicaal abilty and at 28 dont think he ever will have, but of course one can be wrong.

That's all well and good. Name these goals where him giving the ball away has directly lead to a goal conceded.

P.S. You can't criticise Andrews for not scoring as many goals as Lampard, Gerrard, Ronaldo etc. The latter is being sold for £80m FFS!

Admit it, you made a sweeping statement about him costing us goals directly with bad passes and you have absolutely no reference to back it up.

[bazza]

We must all thank Paul Ince for bringing Keith Andrews to the club.

Andrews has single-handedly provided the most discussed and hotly disputed topic on this messageboard to tide us football lovers over the close-season of 2009.

Without Andrews we would all be mooching around, kicking our heels, watching a bit of cricket here and there and generally wishing time would fly faster to next footy season.

Thank you Incey!!

[47er]

We must all thank Paul Ince for bringing Keith Andrews to the club.

Andrews has single-handedly provided the most discussed and hotly disputed topic on this messageboard to tide us football lovers over the close-season of 2009.

Without Andrews we would all be mooching around, kicking our heels, watching a bit of cricket here and there and generally wishing time would fly faster to next footy season.

Thank you Incey!!

Yea but what's Jonnolad going to do when this thread ends?

For us its just a thread but for him its his whole life!!!

[John]

The crux of the matter is that Rovers have to look for better quality than Andrews if we are to progress as a club this coming season,I saw enough last season to see this fella is championship level at best.

Summed up well, debate over. Mind you, he may get second season syndrome and improve further which is fair enough.

He has shown himself to be an average squad player, let this thread continue...

[tcj_jones]

In some matches (Liverpool was one I think) Andrews was played at right back, with Ooijer replacing Samba at centre back and he kept Khizanishvili on the bench. Therefore Sam had more faith in Andrews out of position at right back than he did playing Khizanishvili in his favoured position and playing Ooijer in the position he played for Holland and other clubs (Ooijer is seriously experienced at right back in other words).

Or was Sam saving Khizanishvili for the end of season once round the pitch, as he didn't seem to have much input for us from then on.

Not sure what the bold thing is all about btw.

By putting it in bold, I was hoping that I might actually get through to you. It seems not.

Andrews never started ahead of Ooijer at right back and the last time we played Zurab at right back he got annihilated. The only thing Andrews playing there proved was that Simpson was every bit as poor as we all thought he was.

Please read.

Which I provided an answer for...

Read it again.

Jonno, I think I'd be correct in saying (as I have already) that Andrews was most likely played out of position at right back because Sam was sacrificing one of his weaker players in another position and because he was match fit. Also, he is clearly more suited than the likes of Dunn and Tugay who are creative players or Grella because of his lack of place. Mokoena I'll give you.

And now please read this.

This is becoming somewhat tedius, so I'll make this the last post I make on this matter:

Andrews was played at right back when Ooijer was injured / suspended, but ahead of Simpson and Zurab. Simpson, by now, was deemed by Sam simply not good enough for the first team squad and eventually sent back to United. You can have that one though, he did start Andrews ahead of Simpson. As for Zurab - well, as LeChuck says, the last time he started at right back, he was absolutely destroyed. In any case, he was not match fit. When was the last time he'd played 90 minutes for us? How many minutes had he played all season?

If you play a player out of position at right back then you weigh up the requirements of that position and try to make the smallest sacrifice possible to other areas of the side. Andrews was the smallest sacrifice to make from midfield, or elsewhere, and far more suited than the likes of Dunn and Tugay, who are slow and creative, Diouf, who we needed on the wing, or Grella who is simply too slow and not versatile enough.

Hopefully that explains things and we won't keep being told how playing a player out of position at right back makes them hugely valuable in the eyes of the manager. If anything, it suggests the complete opposite to me. In Sunday League, if we have a ###### player but feel obliged to play him, we stuff him at full back.

[thenodrog]

Retired.

Very wise majiball. I've already come to the conclusion that everything has been said that there is to say about Andrews and most people are simply repeating themselves. In fact just as everything was said over and over about Stead, Grabbi etc. Their sales, their future careers and our subsequent fortunes since replacing proved my opinions right. It will be the same with KA.

Big heart or not he will be the easiest member of the first team squad to replace when he moves on and I would be very very suprised if he went to a Prem club and certainly not one that finishes higher than bottom 6 of the Prem. Any club that wishes to finish top half must look to sign better players simple as that. As long as he is on cheap wages he is in his best position here and sat on the bench......... and preferably in a club suit.

[Jonnolad]

Andrews was played at right back when Ooijer was injured / suspended, but ahead of Simpson and Zurab. Simpson, by now, was deemed by Sam simply not good enough for the first team squad and eventually sent back to United. You can have that one though, he did start Andrews ahead of Simpson. As for Zurab - well, as LeChuck says, the last time he started at right back, he was absolutely destroyed. In any case, he was not match fit. When was the last time he'd played 90 minutes for us? How many minutes had he played all season?

But you are just plain wrong - Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended when Andrews played at right back - Ooijer started at centre back! He played there instead of Samba when Samba was used as a forward.

So to just repeat again since it's the basis of your argument Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended.

Once more just to stop the tedium of you not grasping it - Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended.

Which means Sam preferred Andrews out of position than he did Zurab in position.

The crux of the matter is that Rovers have to look for better quality than Andrews if we are to progress as a club this coming season,I saw enough last season to see this fella is championship level at best.

It's a shame you're not our manager than as you clearly seem to know more than Big Sam!

[tcj_jones]

But you are just plain wrong - Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended when Andrews played at right back - Ooijer started at centre back! He played there instead of Samba when Samba was used as a forward.

So to just repeat again since it's the basis of your argument Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended.

Once more just to stop the tedium of you not grasping it - Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended.

Which means Sam preferred Andrews out of position than he did Zurab in position.

It's a shame you're not our manager than as you clearly seem to know more than Big Sam!

Well then it has to come down to match fitness, another point I raised.

It doesn't really matter anyway. Regardless, it shouldn't be taken as evidence that Andrews is held in such high esteem. It means next to nothing. For all we know Zurab might have had a niggle and not felt quite right. In fact, if Andrews were held in such high esteem, he'd have kept his spot in central midfield and somebody else would have been shifted to right back. Unless you're suggesting that Andrews is actually a quality RB?

It really baffles me why you are making so much of Keith Andrews starting at RB instead of Ooijer and over Zurab playing at CB. Now Gerrard will get played out of position due to being held in high esteem, but that's because he is a world class player and will carry Liverpool even if he were playing in goal. Andrews is barely good enough for the bench.

[John]

Such a passionate debate taking place!

[Jonnolad]

Very wise majiball. I've already come to the conclusion that everything has been said that there is to say about Andrews and most people are simply repeating themselves. In fact just as everything was said over and over about Stead, Grabbi etc. Their sales, their future careers and our subsequent fortunes since replacing proved my opinions right. It will be the same with KA.

You are not wrong about people repeating themselves.

You yourself have now brought up the Grabbi / Stead analogy three times now! And each time I've pointed out that the huge difference with Andrews is all the objective evdence backs up the fact that Andrews is decent, and pretty much all the objective evidence backed up the fact that Grabbi / Stead were crap (they didn't score any goals being the biggest one). It doesn't matter though, you'll probably repeat it again 10 pages from now.

For instance even though I've pointed out the huge flaw in tcj_jones's argument because Ooijer wasn't injured or suspended when Andrews played at right back, someone else will more than likely just repeat the same sh1te a few pages from now - probably tcj_jones himself!

It's like groudhog day round here.

[Jonnolad]

Well then it has to come down to match fitness, another point I raised.

Ah so Ooijer was fully fit after all. Why say he wasn't then? It just makes it look like you are making it up as you go along. Sam must place an awful lot on match fitness though if he's willing to play a dire player out of position rather than play someone in their favoured position, and it's a pacy position is centre back!

It doesn't really matter anyway. Regardless, it shouldn't be taken as evidence that Andrews is held in such high esteem. It means next to nothing. For all we know Zurab might have had a niggle and not felt quite right. In fact, if Andrews were held in such high esteem, he'd have kept his spot in central midfield and somebody else would have been shifted to right back. Unless you're suggesting that Andrews is actually a quality RB?

I'm saying Sam rates Andrews out of position at right back more than he rates Zurab in position (I would have thought you would have grasped that by now).

Ever heard of Occam's razor? It states: that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

Put simply - the most obvious explanation is almost always the correct one. It's pretty much been the basis of human knowledge since the dark ages.

You however ignore the most obvious explanation, and just fire out one's that you make up as you go along. Who cares if they are wrong, just go on to the next one.

Perhaps Sam tried kissing Zurab on the training ground but when he spurned his advances he left him on the bench. Perhaps Zurab's mum is a gypsy and she'd had a vision that "great evil will befall his first born if he started the match", so he wouldn't play.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, Sam rates Andrews out of position at right back more than he rates Zurab in position.

It really baffles me why you are making so much of Keith Andrews starting at RB instead of Ooijer and over Zurab playing at CB. Now Gerrard will get played out of position due to being held in high esteem, but that's because he is a world class player and will carry Liverpool even if he were playing in goal. Andrews is barely good enough for the bench.

If Andrews is barely good enough for the bench, then why does Sam continually start with him?

It's a mystery wrapped inside an enigma!

Or do you know more than Sam Allardyce when it comes to football?

[47er]

Ah so Ooijer was fully fit after all. Why say he wasn't then? It just makes it look like you are making it up as you go along. Sam must place an awful lot on match fitness though if he's willing to play a dire player out of position rather than play someone in their favoured position, and it's a pacy position is centre back!

I'm saying Sam rates Andrews out of position at right back more than he rates Zurab in position (I would have thought you would have grasped that by now).

Ever heard of Occam's razor? It states: that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

Put simply - the most obvious explanation is almost always the correct one. It's pretty much been the basis of human knowledge since the dark ages.

You however ignore the most obvious explanation, and just fire out one's that you make up as you go along. Who cares if they are wrong, just go on to the next one.

Perhaps Sam tried kissing Zurab on the training ground but when he spurned his advances he left him on the bench. Perhaps Zurab's mum is a gypsy and she'd had a vision that "great evil will befall his first born if he started the match", so he wouldn't play.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, Sam rates Andrews out of position at right back more than he rates Zurab in position.

If Andrews is barely good enough for the bench, then why does Sam continually start with him?

It's a mystery wrapped inside an enigma!

Or do you know more than Sam Allardyce when it comes to football?

You're not Vinjay are you?

[Doaksie]

Wigan get their very own Keith Andrews -

Wigan sign Gomez

Martinez had him on loan at Swansea last year, and has made him his first signing since joining Wigan - granted he has a higher pedigree than our Keith, but similar parallels to Ince bringing a League 1 midfielder to his new, Premiership club.

[Balwer]

Wigan get their very own Keith Andrews -

Wigan sign Gomez

Martinez had him on loan at Swansea last year, and has made him his first signing since joining Wigan - granted he has a higher pedigree than our Keith, but similar parallels to Ince bringing a League 1 midfielder to his new, Premiership club.

Very interesting, probably validates the rumours they were potentially interested in Andrews?

[Doaksie]

Very interesting, probably validates the rumours they were potentially interested in Andrews?

Would be interesting also, to see how he is accepted by the Wigan fans (or not accepted, as the case may be).

[joey_big_nose]

Would be interesting also, to see how he is accepted by the Wigan fans (or not accepted, as the case may be).

Probably, because Martinez is respected by the fans as knowing his onions and a nice bloke. Image is everything in these sorts of things.

[Jonnolad]

Would be interesting also, to see how he is accepted by the Wigan fans (or not accepted, as the case may be).

Would you say Andrews has been treated fairly by our fans?

You're not Vinjay are you?

Lol, I take it you've run out of anything of merit to add to the debate then

[Doaksie]

At the very high risk of lengthening this protracted debate, and in as little words as possible, so as to minimise this risk - NO, he probably hasn't.

[Jonnolad]

Very interesting, probably validates the rumours they were potentially interested in Andrews?

Thank goodness for that eh - we can all sleep easy now.

The only thing to explain now is the glaringly inconsistant situation that Allardyce obviously rates Andrews.

Aww well - we'll just have to go back to those sleepness nights!

At the very high risk of lengthening this protracted debate, and in as little words as possible, so as to minimise this risk - NO, he probably hasn't.

It's never too late to change though eh!

[Balwer]

Just to add my own two cents to the debate. I'm a fan of Keith in the sense that he's hard working, rarely injured and always gives it his all with a good attitude and I love that in a player. That being said, I'd be disappointed if he's appearing regularly next year. Due to injuries he played far more often than any of us probably wanted him to this year, he's limited in ability and at his age there's not much potential upside. He did have a couple of shockers, and a couple of quite good games, but overall his performance was just that of another player.

Based on our current squad he's probably third in line as far as the more attacking central midfielders go, behind Dunny and Reid. That's assuming Brett is not playing central midfield either, but rather at right back or right wing.

I think Grella and would be our only real defensive midfielder at this point. Keith's strong points lie in linking up with the strikers and pushing through for a shot on goal, but defensively he's limited (decent tackler though) and his passing is probably his weakest part of his game.

For me I'd still love to see Keith at the club next year, unless we got an offer of 2m+. I think he's good to have for depth, probably as a regular bench player. His wages would be small, he's younger than many of our squad, and I think he enjoys playing here and knows this is as high as he can go.

It saddens me that he cops a lot of grief from some of the fans, but it's pleasing to see there's far fewer of those than there were at the start of last season. I'm always happy when he does well, mostly because of his underdog status, and I am sure I am not alone in that sentiment.

And just finally, as things stand with our midfield, I'd take Keith over Reid at this point, and possibly Dunn too. He may not have their ability, but I know I can rely on him to be healthy for more than 50% of the season. If those two ever get fully fit again, or if we bring in some class to the midfield, then it might be a different story.

[AggyBlue]

If Andrews is barely good enough for the bench, then why does Sam continually start with him?

You were doing so well until the line above.

If you had followed your own advice and used Occam's Razor you would have thought of the treatment room and answered your own question.

[den]

You were doing so well until the line above.

If you had followed your own advice and used Occam's Razor you would have thought of the treatment room and answered your own question.

Impressive Aggy.

I didn't have you down as an Occam's razor man when we met!