[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[Jonnolad]

You were doing so well until the line above.

If you had followed your own advice and used Occam's Razor you would have thought of the treatment room and answered your own question.

Nice of you to join in the debate AggyBlue.

However it's probably best if you read maybe the last 10 pages before posting, as it's already been shown that other players were fit but Andrews was started instead of them - and he was started out of position! Big Sam prefered Andrews out of position instead of Zurab in position in fact.

I like the way people just throw in comments like this though but completely fail to back it up with any specifics - the "treatment" room answers my question does it? Which players are those then in the treatment room, because for the games I've looked at Sam had loads of other options available but choose Andrews instead to play out of position. These were crucial games to our survival as well don't forget.

[Jonnolad]

WTF are you on about?! Are you mental? What exactly am I making up as I go along? I knew that Andrews was played at right back, but not ahead of Ooijer. I couldn't recall why, but presumed it was down to injury or suspension. As it happens, it was because he was played at CB when Samba was sent up front. Either way, it's pretty irrelevant! ANDREWS WAS NOT PLAYED IN PREFERENCE TO OOIJER!

Oh, and don't accuse me of making things up as I go along - it was your original argument that Sam was picking Andrews ahead of OOIJER as well as Zurab!

I'm not being funny but when you say stuff that turns out to be untrue, and then say "oh I didn't mean that at all I meant something completely different", then that definitely looks like someone making it up as they go along.

And actually Andrews was played ahead of Ooijer - in the Spurs game at home for one - Andrews definitely started at right back ahead of Ooijer (who started on the bench).

Now I've pointed that out I'm guessing you'll say that's not what you meant, you meant something totally different. And then you expect us to believe you when you say you aren't making it up as you go along!

I'd suggest he does place an awful lot on match fitness, hence our best striker available - Benni - being on the bench for a prolonged period and Samba playing alone up front. Agree? Or do you think that Sam just doesn't rate him as a striker?

Anyway, this is more about playing Ooijer ahead of Zurab and not about playing Andrews in preference of Ooijer at RB and Zurab at CB. He wanted the

centre of defence to be solid. Zurab played all of three games last season. He wasn't even close to match fitness. Andrews was.

If Sam placed so much emphasis on match fitness, then it makes you wonder how did Benni get back to starting at all? Or Grella for that matter? Let me guess Sam played Grella because he rated him over Andrews, and he didn't care about match fitness there, but he then played Andrews out of position over Zurab / Ooijer in position, because match fitness suddenly became the be all and end all. You can't have it both ways!

If you were Zurab you'd certainly be wondering how you could ever get a match!

No, you original argument was that he was played in preference of BOTH Ooijer and Zurab. Then you changed your mind. I'm saying that Sam placed greater preference on having a match-fit player over one who hasn't played all season and wouldn't be up to the pace. I thought that you would have grasped that by now?

No my original argument has always been that Sam rates Andrews more out of position more than he rates Zurab in position. Read through my posts and quote me if you think it's any different.

However as I've shown above Andrews was played in preference to both Ooijer and Zurab - in the Spurs game at the very least. So thanks for pointing that out.

That isn't the most obvious explanation anyway. Perhaps it is you that is wrong?

The most obvious explanation for Sam playing Andrews out of position instead of Zurab in position, isn't that Sam rates him there?

Funny that seems the most obvious explanation to me.

OK what is the most obvious explanation then? Is it that Ooijer was suspended / injured? Oh no that wasn't right was it. Whatever it was, I'd say it can't be that obvious as you didn't actually think first time round, you reckoned it was Ooijer being suspended / injured.

Do the most obvious explanations sometimes take some thinking about with you, especially when you're having to ignore the one I've suggested.

Oh sweet Jesus! I cannot keep reading this! How many times: Andrews was played during a season where Dunn and Grella were perenially injured and when Tugay couldn't manage more than 60mins at a time. When Dunn an Grella started to return to fitness, Andrews found himself at RB and not in his favoured position.

Why? Because Sam suddenly didn't place any emphasis on match fitness then presumably? Funny how that wasn't the case with Zurab though eh!

[tcj_jones]

I can't be bothered to argue with you, Jonno. I'm sick of the sarcasm and the aggressive tone. Nothing goes in anyway and I just keep hearing the same things being said again and again.

You have your opinion, I'll have mine.

Mine is that Andrews isn't good enough for the Premier League, yours is that he is. We'll leave it there.

[philipl]

Oh wow, what a scrap we are having here.

Andrews is undoubtedly one of the worst players I have seen at Rovers since the Walker revolution began.

That is my considered opinion and for all jonno's spirited defence of him, nothing is going to erase my memory of that pass at Stoke or Andrews' habitual traffic cop stance waving through the opposition's left flank players whenever he had the misfortune to be played at right back.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Anyone else pondered the link between Andrews being the most coveted midfield player in the Premiership - and the sudden revelation that Rovers (or his agent in disguise) are hoping to extend his contract

[tcj_jones]

Yep, I thought that immediately.

[patrickvalery]

Our Keith must have woken up today and thought all his dreams had come true.

Not only is he being touted about for a move to 3.....YES 3...premier league sides. We are allegedly looking to extend his contract! Not just that either. There may be a chance that he can stay with us and not be the most disliked player on the books, with Kevin Davies on the cards.

Talk about the luck of the Irish!

[Guest benmaxwell]

Oh wow, what a scrap we are having here.

[AggyBlue]

Nice of you to join in the debate AggyBlue.

However it's probably best if you read maybe the last 10 pages before posting

I read all the messages posted on this messageboard FYI and it's led me to conclude that you don't know the difference between a good footballer and a bad one.

[jim mk2]

I'm not being funny but when you say stuff that turns out to be untrue, and then say "oh I didn't mean that at all I meant something completely different", then that definitely looks like someone making it up as they go along.

Why? Because Sam suddenly didn't place any emphasis on match fitness then presumably? Funny how that wasn't the case with Zurab though eh!

...... zzzzzzz

72 hours since I last looked on here on you're still at it. Are you mentally ill ?

I ask the question because the debate about Andrews is over; you think he is a decent player, most Rovers fans think he isn't.

Far more worthy of debate now is your apparent obsession with the player.

Owing to your lack of response to my previous queries, I can only assume that your unhealthy interest in the player is because:

1. You are his agent.

2. You are his love-child.

3. You are romantically involved.

4. You owe him money.

5. You have buried his wife under the patio.

6. You are his financial adviser and invested his earnings in a Ponzi scheme.

7. You are Irish.

8. You like watching poor footballers.

9. You are clinically insane.

10. A combination of some or all of the above.

I look forward to your comments.

[Billy Castell]

Is this crap still going on?

Just agree to disagree.

[Iceman]

All this arguing about a guy who has contributed 4 crucial goals, has kept himself fit and doesnt even pick himself yet no arguing over Reid and chubby Dunny. Oh well, i suppose thats just how things are. I wonder how many have spoken to Andrews face to face and told him straight, 'Keith, you are rubbish'

[Hannah]

Spoke to a Birmingham fan tonight and he was really excited about the propsect of them signing Andrews!

[Blue blood]

Of course it's relevant if Andrews being played out of position is keeping Zurab on the bench from his favoured position.

You're only claiming it is irrelevant because it dispels the myth of Sam playing Andrews at right back out of complete and utter desperation. Sam clearly had other options available to him, including the obvious one I've mentioned.

No it isn't relevent at all to whether Andrews is good enough. It is relevent to who should Sam play at rb - as in who is the better choice but that is compairing two players against one another. When compairing Andrews, or anyone else against whether they are good enough for rovers, it is a comparison between that player and the standard of what is expected of a rovers player.

You can have numerous players who are not good enough for the rovers team, and sadly we've got and had a fair few. Another recent example would be whether Derbs should stay or go, as he is preferred more to Gally. Gally's ablility - or lack of it - has nothing to do with whether Derbs should have stayed or gone, Gally's ability has no impact on the quality of Derbyshire as a player whatsoever.

Wigan get their very own Keith Andrews -

Wigan sign Gomez

Martinez had him on loan at Swansea last year, and has made him his first signing since joining Wigan - granted he has a higher pedigree than our Keith, but similar parallels to Ince bringing a League 1 midfielder to his new, Premiership club.

Big difference imo as 1) Martinez has proved himself more as a manager and 2) Gomez cut it in the championship, just one level below the premiership. Gomez did quite well there, which indicates he has a chance/the potential to make it in the premiership (at least a lot more chance then Andrews.)

[BuckyRover]

Except that Andrews has now made it in the Premiership and the international stage. That cannot be disputed.

[Majiball]

I think you maybe surprised by Gomez.

[Blue blood]

Except that Andrews has now made it in the Premiership and the international stage. That cannot be disputed.

Not sure I'd use the term made it especially on the premiership front. Firstly it's only been 1 season, that's hardly established. There's loads of players who've had a decent half season/season in the prem and then faded, not least Stead and Gally to name a couple. Also we've not had any fit midfielders - dunn, grella and reid have all been injured, and tugs at his age could hardly be expected to play every game, so it's not like he's played that many games on merit.

As for the international team - guess you could say that the san marino or andorra players have made it internationally, that's a tad misleading. Ireland aren't that bad but there's not much talent for the irish out there at cm.

[imy9]

Not sure I'd use the term made it especially on the premiership front. Firstly it's only been 1 season, that's hardly established. There's loads of players who've had a decent half season/season in the prem and then faded, not least Stead and Gally to name a couple. Also we've not had any fit midfielders - dunn, grella and reid have all been injured, and tugs at his age could hardly be expected to play every game, so it's not like he's played that many games on merit.

As for the international team - guess you could say that the san marino or andorra players have made it internationally, that's a tad misleading. Ireland aren't that bad but there's not much talent for the irish out there at cm.

You could say that for Andorra and San Marino but Andorra are (ranked 196) and San Marino (ranked 202) with Ireland ranked 35!! So Ireland may not have a dearth of talent in CM but Andrews has performed well for them against quality sides like Italy.

[Blue blood]

You could say that for Andorra and San Marino but Andorra are (ranked 196) and San Marino (ranked 202) with Ireland ranked 35!! So Ireland may not have a dearth of talent in CM but Andrews has performed well for them against quality sides like Italy.

As I said Ireland aren't that bad, I used those extreme examples to make the point; but look who else they have as options for cm - mostly championship players or premiership reserves.

[Tom]

Letting him go for less than £3m would be madness, I'd hold out for £4m.

The job he did for us last season is under rated.

[AggyBlue]

They have made an official bid for him.

Wonder how much?

[LeChuck]

Promoting Judge to the role of reliable understudy would mean we could spend all of the money made from Andrews elsewhere. Judge coped very well in the Championship last year so he deserves his chance.

[Plastic Head]

I have put £50 of fuel in the Saab.

The engine is running and i've backed it out of the drive.

Just gimme the word Sam and I'll pick him up, he'll be at the Cottage by 6 o'clock if you're quick.

Deal Noel....errr Woy I mean.

[rover6]

Sell and promote Judge, as LeChuck said.

Sounds perfect, seeing as we have Nzonzi added to the CM stable.

[Jonnolad]

I've been reading through this thread and I'm really, really, really confused.

Andrews is rubbish isn't he? Absolutely any fool who knows anything about football knows that. Why is Roy Hodgson interested in him then? I just can't understand it.

In Roy Hodgson's first full season Fulham finished 7th - that's quite high in the premier league isn't it? You'd think Roy therefore knows a bit about football. Why would he possibly want a player who is absolutely no way good enough for the premier league then, even as a squad player? The bloke is a championship player at best.

It just doesn't make any sense.