[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[BuckyRover]

We should sell Andrews. We should sell our entire playing staff, then we would have a massive budget.

Who needs consistency?

[TimmyJimmy]

I've debated on Andrews well and at enormous length. I've done everything I can to put my point across.

JonnoLad has repeated his same point about 40,000 times, phrased in the same way and in a sarcastic manner whilst ignoring any point that anybody else makes.

I'm now responding in kind.

Problem is it's difficult to see what the point is that you're making.

If this was a court of law what exactly would you charge Andrews with :

- not working hard, no, even his other critics on here don't fault him for this

- not scoring goals, no, records show he has indeed scored goals from mid field (and some imprtant ones at that)

- not improving, tough to argue that he hasn't improved or Sam wouldn't want to hold on to him and Fulham wouldn't want to buy if he was still MKD standard

- not being a team player, no he's played his socks off in every position he's been asked to, and don't forget he never claimed to be a full back but guess what, if that was what was requested that's what he did

- not being good enough to get an international cap, no, records show that he was indeed capped

- not being good enough - this seems to be your one and only point and by definition it's subjective. The last I looked in this country you couldn't be found guilty on opinion. We all have our opinions and are entitled to them but that doesn't give you license to nail the guy to the door because you think he 'deserves' it.

Bottom line is we all like a good debate but simply stating "Andrews is ######" several times over and saying that nothing will change your mind "no, won't, shan't, can't make me" is not debate or even mindful conversation, it's stuff that only makes sense after 12 pints of Stella.

Why not lay off the insults and give the guy the benefit of the doubt and challenge him to surprise you this season.

[Ray-Von]

"Steady Eddie" type players have always served Rovers well in the past. I'm thinking the likes of Super Atko, John Millar, Nicky Reid, Nicky Marker.

I would put Andrews into that category.

[AggyBlue]

Bottom line is we all like a good debate but simply stating "Andrews is ######" several times over

I can imagine him stamping his feet shouting it .

Then his mummy put his dummy back in.

[tcj_jones]

Problem is it's difficult to see what the point is that you're making.

...

Bottom line is we all like a good debate but simply stating "Andrews is ######" several times over and saying that nothing will change your mind "no, won't, shan't, can't make me" is not debate or even mindful conversation, it's stuff that only makes sense after 12 pints of Stella.

Why not lay off the insults and give the guy the benefit of the doubt and challenge him to surprise you this season.

Silly thing is I don't dislike Andrews at all - that post was purely a response to JonnoLad. I'll always give him a warm reception on the basis of his enthusiasm alone - I wish more were like him. I don't think that he's ######, just that I don't believe he is good enough for the Premier League.

Honestly, spend a few minutes going back through the thread and you'll see my opinions on Andrews. I enjoyed the debate to begin with, I posted a lot on it. I like to debate with people, no matter how different their opinion might be, as long as they argue their case well and in a polite and personable manner. JonnoLad sticks to the sarcastic undermining of people's honest opinions and to rephrasing the same post over and over and over and over and over and over again. I didn't just come out and insult him, or dismiss what he had to say - it was a response to this attitude.

Clearly people haven't followed the course of the thread and have seen one post made by me and concluded that I'm the rude one. It's so not the case.

.

I can imagine him stamping his feet shouting it .

Then his mummy put his dummy back in.

This is a perfect example of my last point in the previous post.

That you could suggest that about me and not JonnoLad is hilarious. I'd suggest reading the rest of the thread.

[AggyBlue]

This is a perfect example of my last point in the previous post.

That you could suggest that about me and not JonnoLad is hilarious. I'd suggest reading the rest of the thread.

I read all the posts.

It's a response to your post at 11:51. A rather childlike post.

[tcj_jones]

I read all the posts.

It's a response to your post at 11:51. A rather childlike post.

You clearly missed the point of the post. It was a reply in-kind, and a mocking of the ones proceeding it.

[alexanders]

stop arguing about Keith Andrews please.

One of you rate him as a squad player and think he is worth blue-white halves, the other clearly not.

[Jonnolad]

Silly thing is I don't dislike Andrews at all - that post was purely a response to JonnoLad. I'll always give him a warm reception on the basis of his enthusiasm alone - I wish more were like him. I don't think that he's ######, just that I don't believe he is good enough for the Premier League.

Honestly, spend a few minutes going back through the thread and you'll see my opinions on Andrews. I enjoyed the debate to begin with, I posted a lot on it. I like to debate with people, no matter how different their opinion might be, as long as they argue their case well and in a polite and personable manner. JonnoLad sticks to the sarcastic undermining of people's honest opinions and to rephrasing the same post over and over and over and over and over and over again. I didn't just come out and insult him, or dismiss what he had to say - it was a response to this attitude.

Clearly people haven't followed the course of the thread and have seen one post made by me and concluded that I'm the rude one. It's so not the case.

This is a perfect example of my last point in the previous post.

That you could suggest that about me and not JonnoLad is hilarious. I'd suggest reading the rest of the thread.

I'd also definitely suggest for people to read this thread again - you included. You'll find I've never been rude or insulting to anyone - if you think that's not the case then feel free to quote me (I'll not hold my breath on that one). Insults have definitely been directed against me mind, but I've never responded in kind.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what your problem is but I'm guessing you can't stand the fact that everything that seems to happen with Andrews backs up my point of view (i.e. on last season's performance Andrews is definitely a Premier League player - albeit at a squad level), whilst making your point of view weaker.

I'm not going to apologise for pointing out the obvious flaws or contradictions in people's derogatory comments on the player though. Especially considering that this kind of thing, and I'm think specifically about the boos and groans on match day here, can have a detrimental effect on Andrews' and therefore Rovers' performances. If you want to voice an unfounded opinion which could have a negative effect on our success, then you'd be childish to expect not to have that opinion challenged. Get over it. If you can't then don't post it.

[broadsword]

As previously stated, just put him on ignore.

It's one thing to have a point of view, quite another to repeat essentially the same points ad nauseum - which is only ever going to wind people up.

Yes, he's suddenly playing for Ireland and Blackburn. But his late emergence as a top flight flight player has little to do with a late blossoming of talent, and a hell of a lot more to do with being picked by default because there are no better options. It's alright saying Trap thinks he's Maradona and Sam thinks he's Pele, but how about the 20 top flight managers who didn't think he was good enough for the last 10 years? Or does that argument only count one way?

To make your debut in top flight football at the age of 28 (and against Arsenal, to boot), you can count yourself very lucky.

Premiership player? Yes, indubitably by virtue of the fact that he's playing in the Premiership.

Talented player? Absolutely not.

[Amo]

Is this topic even ABOUT Keith Andrews anymore?

I still think if we can make a tidy profit on him (£3-4m) we should sell. He's clearly limited in this league, but he has enough to be a steady utility player. Last season our form under Allardyce was mid-table standard, and Andrews was a regular starter. He isn't *that* bad, but he's hardly indispensable.

[ffan]

Is this topic even ABOUT Keith Andrews anymore?

I still think if we can make a tidy profit on him (£3-4m) we should sell. He's clearly limited in this league, but he has enough to be a steady utility player.

Sorry, but how can you say you'd accept 3 to 4 million? From your description of him he's only worth about two million!!

[Jonnolad]

Yes, he's suddenly playing for Ireland and Blackburn. But his late emergence as a top flight flight player has little to do with a late blossoming of talent, and a hell of a lot more to do with being picked by default because there are no better options. It's alright saying Trap thinks he's Maradona and Sam thinks he's Pele, but how about the 20 top flight managers who didn't think he was good enough for the last 10 years? Or does that argument only count one way?

Who cares if he's been in a mental asylum for the last 10 years? Who cares where he's been (of course surely this is the crux of the problem with the Andrews detractors though)? What surely matters is how he has played for Rovers (and also for the ROI while he's been a Rovers player). Derbyshire came from Great Harwood town - should that have counted against him when he was in a Rovers shirt - regardless of his performace on the pitch?

Of course I have no idea if you can read this, lol, if you can't stand the truth, best to just ignore it eh Perhaps think about covering your eyes and ears on match days too!

[gumboots]

Is this topic even ABOUT Keith Andrews anymore?

I still think if we can make a tidy profit on him (£3-4m) we should sell. He's clearly limited in this league, but he has enough to be a steady utility player. Last season our form under Allardyce was mid-table standard, and Andrews was a regular starter. He isn't *that* bad, but he's hardly indispensable.

No, he's not, but what's the point of selling him unless we sign a better player to replace him. if we buy worse then the debate about whether player Q or whatever we call him is good enough for rovers starts again. Unless we need the money to add to what we have and buy significantly better then selling makes no kind of sense.

[Amo]

Sorry, but how can you say you'd accept 3 to 4 million? From your description of him he's only worth about two million!!

What he's worth and what we want are two different things.

See: Santa Cruz.

[tcj_jones]

I'd also definitely suggest for people to read this thread again - you included. You'll find I've never been rude or insulting to anyone - if you think that's not the case then feel free to quote me (I'll not hold my breath on that one). Insults have definitely been directed against me mind, but I've never responded in kind.

You clearly don't understand the concept of provocation. Actually you probably do - it's probably the only reason you post on the thread.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what your problem is but I'm guessing you can't stand the fact that everything that seems to happen with Andrews backs up my point of view (i.e. on last season's performance Andrews is definitely a Premier League player - albeit at a squad level), whilst making your point of view weaker.

Such unbelievably infuriating rubbish. You're so deluded it's unreal.

I'm not going to apologise for pointing out the obvious flaws or contradictions in people's derogatory comments on the player though. Especially considering that this kind of thing, and I'm think specifically about the boos and groans on match day here, can have a detrimental effect on Andrews' and therefore Rovers' performances. If you want to voice an unfounded opinion which could have a negative effect on our success, then you'd be childish to expect not to have that opinion challenged. Get over it. If you can't then don't post it.

'Unfounded opinion'? How on EARTH is it unfounded? Sweet Jesus.

I've already said several times that I don't boo or groan or anything for that matter when Andrews is playing. He'll always have my support from the sidelines. If you think that my criticisms on this messageboard will have a direct impact on our success then you're completely thick.

Again, hilarious that I'm being labelled as childish by you.

You've made your point - about 400,000 times actually - so why don't you stop posting about it as well? If you can't take the insults directed at your obvious provocation, then you shouldn't be posting either.

This thread has been crying out for moderation for weeks. I haven't exactly stuck to the guidelines, but I feel everything that I've said in that regard has been the result of obvious provocation from a guy with an obvious agenda or whom is on nothing more than a wind-up. I can't think of a single post he's made on anything bar Andrews (cue Jonno making a few token posts in some of the other threads).

I'm going to take your advice, Bryan, and put him on ignore. The only way I'll be able to properly ignore his posts though is by staying away from the thread as a whole because, if allowed, he will continue to dominate it. I feel it's a shame that people who come on here to discuss a wide range of topics about the club they love are the ones forced to move away from discussions to which they previously enjoyed contributing.

In fact, I'm not sure whether the mods regularly read this thread so, when I get a minute, I'll bring it up with them in a PM.

[Amo]

No, he's not, but what's the point of selling him unless we sign a better player to replace him. if we buy worse then the debate about whether player Q or whatever we call him is good enough for rovers starts again. Unless we need the money to add to what we have and buy significantly better then selling makes no kind of sense.

Which is why I set a pricetag of £3-4m. That way we have a decent amount to find a better midfielder. Anything less wouldn't be worth it, especially given the uncertainty of Dunn & Reid's fitness.

[Fife Rover]

To Jonnolad and TCJ: I have an ideahow to settle this once and for all.

Why don't you two agree to meet outside the Blues Bar at (say) 2-15pm on 15th Aug. Each of you bring your handbag with a brick in it and on the command "GO" from the umpire (I am willing to perform that office) you both start swinging handbags at a distance of 7 feet apart. The one who comes the nearest to hitting the other after 24 swings is declared the winner and then you both shake hands and we all adjourn to the Blues bar for a nice little drinky before going inside the ground and taking our seats and watching Andrews give the man of the match performance against Citeh.

[ffan]

What he's worth and what we want are two different things.

See: Santa Cruz.

Aye fair point.

I'd take him happily for 2.5million tops, not the 3 million Rovers want.

[broadsword]

2.5 mill, you can have him, ta

[philipl]

Aye fair point.

I'd take him happily for 2.5million tops, not the 3 million Rovers want.

Can we sell you this thread for 2.5 million?

[den]

Aye fair point.

I'd take him happily for 2.5million tops, not the 3 million Rovers want.

Deal.

- Fife, you had me smiling with the handbag with a brick in it remark, then you had to go and spoil it with that last comment.

Mods, is there a way we can put a topic on ignore?

[Jonnolad]

This thread has been crying out for moderation for weeks. I haven't exactly stuck to the guidelines, but I feel everything that I've said in that regard has been the result of obvious provocation from a guy with an obvious agenda or whom is on nothing more than a wind-up. I can't think of a single post he's made on anything bar Andrews (cue Jonno making a few token posts in some of the other threads).

Obvious agenda? Provocation? What are you on about?

What you surely mean is I haven't agreed with you. Not being funny but if you get so wound up with someone disagreeing with you then it might be an idea not to directly quote them and debate with them, especially if you can't control yourself without resorting to insults.

And you now think the thread should be moderated because you can't control yourself? I'm confused. I never resort to insults but you do and you suddenly want the thread moderated.

Read through my posts - they are all pretty well reasoned stuff - disagreeing with you isn't a crime.

Not sure what your obsession with where I do or don't post is all about either??

To Jonnolad and TCJ: I have an ideahow to settle this once and for all.

Why don't you two agree to meet outside the Blues Bar at (say) 2-15pm on 15th Aug. Each of you bring your handbag with a brick in it and on the command "GO" from the umpire (I am willing to perform that office) you both start swinging handbags at a distance of 7 feet apart. The one who comes the nearest to hitting the other after 24 swings is declared the winner and then you both shake hands and we all adjourn to the Blues bar for a nice little drinky before going inside the ground and taking our seats and watching Andrews give the man of the match performance against Citeh.

Lol - I'd go for that Fife

[broadsword]

Obvious agenda? Provocation? What are you on about?

What you surely mean is I haven't agreed with you. Not being funny but if you get so wound up with someone disagreeing with you then it might be an idea not to directly quote them and debate with them, especially if you can't control yourself without resorting to insults.

And you now think the thread should be moderated because you can't control yourself? I'm confused. I never resort to insults but you do and you suddenly want the thread moderated.

Read through my posts - they are all pretty well reasoned stuff - disagreeing with you isn't a crime.

Not sure what your obsession with where I do or don't post is all about either??

Lol - I'd go for that Fife

I can't help but think that you're actually enjoying winding him up.

in fact I'm starting to think the whole bloody thread is a wind-up.

[Jonnolad]

I can't help but think that you're actually enjoying winding him up.

I personally think the truth of the matter is that he's winding himself up.