[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

[LeChuck]

Giovanni Trappatoni - rates him

...above Liam Miller!!!!

Argh Jonno, I really want to stop posting in here, stop it!

Also...can we see how often Andrews plays next season before deciding whether Sam rates him?

[broadsword]

Just because a manager plays a player, that doesn't mean he rates him. It might just be that he is the least worst option available.

That much is blindingly obvious.

He might publicly state that a player's done well, but that is more for a player's confidence first of all, rather than a privately held belief.

[Miker]

Andrews is my hero.

[Blue blood]

I'll bite. Did Hodgson rate Fettis as a goal keeper because he played half a dozen games (perhaps more) for us in goal in the prem? Or was it to do with injuries that he got so many games?

Bryan hits the nail on the head about this.

Also you say 3/4 managers rate him. IF he was so good/decent at prem level why was he not playing premiership before the age of 28? Surely a manager would have given him a punt at prem football before 28 if he were decently talented. Even those who are discovered late, generally get to play in the prem before 28.

Also, before it is pointed out, the likes of Nelsen is not a fair comparison as the media coverage and ability to scout players in the American league is far lower than that within brittish football, hence there's a much greater chance of discovery for talent in the UK.

[philipl]

I've got to ask Philip; do you rate Sam Allardyce as a manager? Do you trust his judgement on players ability? Can I also ask how you would rate Khizanishvili as a player?

Last season the fact is Sam consistently chose Andrews out of position over Zurab in position - consistently. That's at the very least - if Andrews was being played out of position it meant he was rated by our manager over a whole host of other players who could have also been played out of position.

Can you therefore see why I can't agree with your dire assessment of Andrews, since, at the very least, it seems to fly in the face of our manager's assessment of the player?

As for next season, for arguments sake, how would you feel if Andrews is not only on the bench but also gets to play in some matches over fit players who you think have more ability? At what point would you start to question your assessment of the player?

1) Zura is not a right back- he is a central defender so "Zurab in position - consistently" is you being wrong - consistently.

2) I rate Sam Allardyce very highly which is why I don't think we will see much of Andrews when we have a full compliment of fit midfielders.

3) I will re-assess my judgement when/if Andrews shows greater ability than I saw from him last season.

[Miker]

Wow people on this board have absolutely no love or respect for determination and ambition. I suppose this is England and you guys have the monarchy and all, so you believe in players only being allowed to play first team football in Blackburn if they're from some higher pedigree.

Personally, I would want to shake Andrews' hand if I ever met him. I would tell him I feel humbled and inspired by his determination and ability to not only make it into the Premier League, but put in consistent performances throughout an entire season, featuring in almost every game, and bagging 4 goals in his first season from midfield. Not to mention get called up to represent your country and score on your debut. Apparently, he's a villain for that though.

Geez, the people on this board are terribly depressing.

[Jonnolad]

1) Zura is not a right back- he is a central defender so "Zurab in position - consistently" is you being wrong - consistently.

But Sam played Andrews at right back, Ooijer at centre back, and kept Zurab on the bench.

Why didn't Sam just play Zurab at centre back (his favoured position) and Ooijer at right back (his favoured position) instead, and keep Andrews on the bench?

If your dire assessment of Andrews is true, why was he being played out of position when Sam clearly had the above option available to play Zurab and Ooijer both in position?

Do you think Sam forgot where Zurab and Ooijer could play?

Just because a manager plays a player, that doesn't mean he rates him. It might just be that he is the least worst option available.

That much is blindingly obvious.

Then why didn't Sam play Zurab and Ooijer in position then?

Or are you saying that Zurab and Ooijer in position is a worse option than Keith out of position?

[broadsword]

Also you say 3/4 managers rate him. IF he was so good/decent at prem level why was he not playing premiership before the age of 28? Surely a manager would have given him a punt at prem football before 28 if he were decently talented. Even those who are discovered late, generally get to play in the prem before 28.

That gets conveniently ignored.

What happened was that he woke up on his 28th birthday after putting a sharock under his pillow and the lucky leprauchaun granted his wish to wake up a premiership-class player.

[philipl]

You are still completely wrong old bean.

[Jonnolad]

Wow people on this board have absolutely no love or respect for determination and ambition. I suppose this is England and you guys have the monarchy and all, so you believe in players only being allowed to play first team football in Blackburn if they're from some higher pedigree.

Personally, I would want to shake Andrews' hand if I ever met him. I would tell him I feel humbled and inspired by his determination and ability to not only make it into the Premier League, but put in consistent performances throughout an entire season, featuring in almost every game, and bagging 4 goals in his first season from midfield.

All in the face of open hostility from a large section of his home fans of course.

[Tris]

2) I rate Sam Allardyce very highly which is why I don't think we will see much of Andrews when we have a full compliment of fit midfielders.

The signs are that SA rates Andrews very highly.

He went out of his way - on at least two occasions at the end of last season - when praising the efforts of the team, to pick out Andrews for a name check for his versatility and his progress since stepping up, and his valuable goals.

He's also played him from the start in both pre-season fixtures this week.

And if the interest from Fulham was genuine, Rovers could have gone back with the "derisory offer" or "nowhere near our valuation" line.

They didn't, it was a very public "he's not for sale."

[Jonnolad]

You are still completely wrong old bean.

How am I wrong Philip? Just saying I am won't make it so you see.

Why not answer my questions instead:

Why didn't Sam just play Zurab at centre back (his favoured position) and Ooijer at right back (his favoured position) instead, and keep Andrews on the bench?

If your dire assessment of Andrews is true, why was he being played out of position when Sam clearly had the above option available to play Zurab and Ooijer both in position?

[dave birch]

The signs are that SA rates Andrews very highly.

He went out of his way - on at least two occasions at the end of last season - when praising the efforts of the team, to pick out Andrews for a name check for his versatility and his progress since stepping up, and his valuable goals.

He's also played him from the start in both pre-season fixtures this week.

And if the interest from Fulham was genuine, Rovers could have gone back with the "derisory offer" or "nowhere near our valuation" line.

They didn't, it was a very public "he's not for sale."

Bryan, LeC, etc, tris has a valid point.

Your comments?

[LeChuck]

They didn't, it was a very public "he's not for sale."

We did the same with Roque, it's a good tactic for getting the very highest fee possible.

I think we all know the Andrews would go if a good offer came in.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

...above Liam Miller!!!!

To be fair though Chuck, you can only beat what is in front of you.

[dave birch]

Come on LeC, if he was as bad as you (and others) say and Foolham offered 2-3 mil, then he'd have been gone like a shot.

Tris has it spot on.

[Miker]

Come on LeC, if he was as bad as you (and others) say and Foolham offered 2-3 mil, then he'd have been gone like a shot.

Tris has it spot on.

Sure, if we're offered 10mil we'd sell him. I wouldn't sell him for 2 though.

Don't be surprised if Sam doesn't end up buying another midfielder and Andrews starts a fair number of games.

[dave birch]

Sure, if we're offered 10mil we'd sell him. I wouldn't sell him for 2 though.

Don't be surprised if Sam doesn't end up buying another midfielder and Andrews starts a fair number of games.

Miker, i'm not offering an opinion about Andrews' ability as a footballer, he may well start a fair number of games.

My point was that Tris made a good point about the managers assessment of the situation.

[LeChuck]

To be fair though Chuck, you can only beat what is in front of you.

Of course. My point is that you can't say he's good enough to be a Premier League midfielder based on the fact he's picked above Liam Miller. There is no logic to it.

Come on LeC, if he was as bad as you (and others) say and Foolham offered 2-3 mil, then he'd have been gone like a shot.

Tris has it spot on.

When have I said he's bad? I posted this today:

I don't actually mind Keith, as squad players go he's adequate enough, but I'd rather take £2 million from Fulham and buy someone better (using extra money from the Roque sale).

Was the bid rumoured to be £2 million? We'd be foolish to accept a first bid, clubs always go in low with their first offer. That £2 million could have easily been made up of performance related things and staggered payments as well.

I don't think Tris did have it spot on. We kept saying Roque wasn't for sale, when what we really meant was he'll go if we get the right price.

Nobody can be confirmed right or wrong until we see what position (if any) Sam gives Andrews in our squad when the season starts. Pre-season means sod all.

[tonyoz]

Jonnolad, I am full of admiration for your persistent defence of "our Keith". Of course, posting so often means that you become somewhat repetitive but you can be forgiven in my book because your arguments are superior to most on here. Keep up the good work, I actually quite enjoy this thread.

[Miker]

Miker, i'm not offering an opinion about Andrews' ability as a footballer, he may well start a fair number of games.

My point was that Tris made a good point about the managers assessment of the situation.

No I know... I should've quoted LeChuck's post really... I was just making a point continuing on from yours. I agree with Tris as well.

In any case, I just don't see where this hate for Andrews comes from. I can agree with most people on here that Mokoena was rubbish and Treacy doesn't look very promising etc. but then when you had Derbyshire, who was a local lad, everyone always talks about how great he did to come from where he did to make it into the premier league, but just because Andrews is in his late 20s, everyone here completely overlooks the fact that he came from 3 leagues below and did a great job for us overall last season.

He's not the new messiah or something, but he's a good player who did well for us and deserves to be given opportunities in the first team next season, rather than be sold for a measly 2 million in a completely inflated transfer market.

[Tris]

We did the same with Roque, it's a good tactic for getting the very highest fee possible.

I think we all know the Andrews would go if a good offer came in.

RSC was entirely different. The release clause set the fee - everyone knew he would go to city and everyone knew they'd have to pay 18 million quid. The manager even admitted in January that he'd probably be leaving in the summer.

We'll see on Andrews, both on leaving Rovers and getting in the team. If pre-season means bog-all, SA might as well play the kids in Split tomorrow and send the 1st team back to the beach.

Alternatively, he can use it to get the players who will be getting picked come August 15th up to speed and playing as a unit.

[LeChuck]

RSC was entirely different. The release clause set the fee - everyone knew he would go to city and everyone knew they'd have to pay 18 million quid. The manager even admitted in January that he'd probably be leaving in the summer.

We'll see on Andrews, both on leaving Rovers and getting in the team. If pre-season means bog-all, SA might as well play the kids in Split tomorrow and send the 1st team back to the beach.

Alternatively, he can use it to get the players who will be getting picked come August 15th up to speed and playing as a unit.

I thought Roque's release clause was £20 million? Not that it matters a great deal I guess.

How many players has Sam used so far? 22 ish? I don't doubt that Andrews would be part of a squad that big, but these early pre-season games don't really tell us anything more than that. I think you knew what I was getting at really, your middle paragraph doesn't help this discussion at all because I never meant anything of the sort.

[Darth Paul]

The fact is that most of our players would go if a good offer came in. That is where we are right now and some people just can't see it.

There is no room for passengers in the Premiership and the fact is that Keith Andrews played in a lot of our games and we performed well enough to finish mid table. Maybe he is no better than that, maybe he is, perhaps we will find out.

At the very least he is a valuable squad asset who is capable of holding his own in a mid table premiership side and is favoured by at least 3 managers (Allardyce, Hodgson, Trappatoni), who presumably know a bit more about the game than we all do.

These are all facts. I see very few facts in the arguments to the contrary.

[alexanders]

He also gives 100% percent whenever called upon.

You can't say the same about all the others out there.