[Archived] Keith Andrews - Rovers Newest Signing

LeChuck · July 17, 2009

is favoured by at least 3 managers (Allardyce, Hodgson, Trappatoni), who presumably know a bit more about the game than we all do.
These are all facts. I see very few facts in the arguments to the contrary.

Favoured above Liam Miller by Trappatoni.

Selected when riddled with injuries/suspensions by Allardyce.

Hodgson has made many poor transfer decisions in his time.

joey_big_nose · July 17, 2009

I wonder what the pecking order in central midfield is at the moment? No real standouts to be perfectly honest....

imo:

Warnock (if not at lb)

Dunn (if fit)

Grella (if fit)

Emerton (if not a rb)

Reid (if fit... ha)

Andrews

NZonzi

Judge

Though in pre season so far only Andrews, Grella and N'Zonzi have played in the middle. Oh and Dunn...

I can't believe Reid is injured again (or is it just the same injury carrying over?)

den · July 17, 2009

At the very least he is a valuable squad asset who is capable of holding his own in a mid table premiership side and is favoured by at least 3 managers (Allardyce, Hodgson, Trappatoni), who presumably know a bit more about the game than we all do.

This isn't aimed at you personally DP, but this repetitive argument is really so poor that it doesn't deserve any merit at all.

Have Allardyce, Hodson and Trapp, never picked a poor player?

Hodson, who people say is a great judge of a player and knows better than us meagre fans, played Christian Dailly as a right winger. Does that make Dailly a good right winger and mean the fans got that one wrong?

Amo · July 17, 2009

I think Sam accepts our situation, and knows that unless he can find around £4m, it would not be worth selling Andrews. He acknowledges the guy may be lacking technically, but he gives 100% and will chase down the second ball all day.

DanLad · July 17, 2009

I'm astounded that this has reached 100 pages!

Heres to the next 100 virtually identical pages!

joey_big_nose · July 17, 2009

This isn't aimed at you personally DP, but this repetitive argument is really so poor that it doesn't deserve any merit at all.
Have Allardyce, Hodson and Trapp, never picked a poor player?

By that argument you are saying that the opinion of all managers is baseless? Which is plain crazy, and not really an argument.

Le Chuck does have a point though. Trapp only needed to think Andrews was better than Miller et al, Allardyce only needed to think Andrews was better than Mokoena and Vogel, and Hodgson could have been buying he big eared one to be a squad player and sit on the bench.

I am not sure how this detracts from the solid and entirely reasonable argument that Andrews is a decent enough squad player.

den · July 17, 2009

By that argument you are saying that the opinion of all managers is baseless? Which is plain crazy, and not really an argument.

What? How did you come to that conclusion?

I'm saying that the argument that because he's been picked by Sam means he's a good player - is wrong. It doesn't hold water.

LeChuck · July 17, 2009

I am not sure how this detracts from the solid and entirely reasonable argument that Andrews is a decent enough squad player.

Just to clarify I'm not intending to argue against this, if he plays the amount of games a squad player would (10 ish base on Zurab/Derbs/Berner/Treacy/Olsson and whatever other squad players we have/had) then it's fine. My point is the reason we were in a relegation fight last season was because incredibly average players were being asked to play 30+ games - Andrews being a prime example. If we want to progress next season his games must be kept down to a minimum and only used when others are unavailable.

joey_big_nose · July 17, 2009

What? How did you come to that conclusion?
I'm saying that the argument that because he's been picked by Sam means he's a good player - is wrong. It doesn't hold water.

Of course the argument that you are picked by 2 highly decent managers over a long period of time does suggest you are a competant player, or at least better than the other options available.

What other criteria are you suggesting?

Jonnolad · July 17, 2009

Also you say 3/4 managers rate him. IF he was so good/decent at prem level why was he not playing premiership before the age of 28? Surely a manager would have given him a punt at prem football before 28 if he were decently talented. Even those who are discovered late, generally get to play in the prem before 28.

I'll answer that one since Bryan seems to think that question gets ignored. I don't know where he gets that idea from though because I'm actually going to just copy a post (2 posts in fact) I did last time, but hey ho:

Ok then, let's say for arguments sake that the reason he wasn't getting Premier League or international starts was he wasn't good enough for the last 10 years - that would be the best case situation for your point. Who cares though? Surely what matters is he is now good enough, because the undisputable fact is that he is now getting Premier League and international starts. Therefore for whatever reason he has improved himself immeasurably since he came to Rovers.

Should we hold it against him though that he wasn't good enough for the previous 10 years before he came to us? Why? If anything surely it's better that he didn't used to be good enough since we got him at a bargain price of £750k, and he has since improved and proved himself to be worth far more than that (which is testified by Fulham bidding far more and Rovers not even wanting to enter into negotiations).

By your logic we should be buying and applauding players based solely on their former glories, rather than how they perform in a Rovers shirt. Well that's clearly nuts. Should we put a bid in for Paul Gascoigne? Who cares if he's now a washed up alcoholic - he used to be really really good.

Should Sam base his decision to play Andrews on what happened 10 or even 5 years ago?

"I'm sorry Keith, I know you're doing really well in training, and are better than other players, but on February 16th 2003 you were only playing against Brentford, therefore I have to play someone worse instead"

Either Andrews is now getting Premier League starts now or he isn't - and unfortunately for you he is. Therefore, in Sam Allardyce's opinion at the very least, he is a Premier League player. End of. Only you are bothered what happened in the past 10 years before he came to Rovers because you have nothing else to back up your skewed opinion of the player.

spencey7 · July 17, 2009

[i was about to post this in Nicko's thread, but realised it belongs here...]

Point is that some people actually try to make out that [Keith Andrews] is a top player in their frothy eagerness to defend him. He plainly isn't and if we want to improve then we need a better player than KA in the squad.

I can scarcely believe I'm typing this - but I actually agree with thenodrog!

Andrews is Championship-level at best, and is clearly way, way out of his depth in the Premier League. The fact that any Blackburn fan can attest otherwise I honestly find a little frightening. It's often said that football is a religion, and both certainly exhibit the same flaw - faith (be it in a "higher power" or a football club) means making a virtue out of not thinking. "Shut up and support the team!" is a phrase you hear uttered regularly by Andrews-defending zealots... Constructively criticising the team doesn't stop you being a fan.

He's without question one of the worst midfielders in the top flight. I still honestly can't believe we signed him.

BuckyRover · July 17, 2009

And yet, Sam picked him and if the form since he took over had been replicated all season we would have finished top 10. Yet he is still not considered a Premiership player. Some people are confusing bias with logic.

Nelsen also hadn't played in a major league until the age of 28 and he was in the same team as Andrews last season.

Go figure...

T4E · July 17, 2009

Why do you care? It's as if you (and others) can't debate the issue, have nothing to actually add anymore to back up your opinion other than repeat something that's already been shown to be wrong (see my reply to LeChuck above for a classic example of this) and this is all you now have.
"Keith's a decent player because Sam obviously favours him out of position rather over other more established players in position"

"Yeah, well...........you post too much about Andrews"

The irony is we've even gone through this before - numerous times. And as I pointed out last time it's the type of response you'd expect in the playground.

People claim that then are bored with the repetition but then just ask the same questions over and over and over again.

This is where you seem to have gotten confused. I am not trying to argue the Keith Andrews point with you by telling you that you post about him too much. Truth be told, I haven't read any of your posts on this subject for a long time. Reason being, when someone posts so obsessively, so often, on one subject, in a short space of time, it's a massive turn off. You may be making excellent points, I have no idea, because every time I see your name I scan past it to the next post.

As I said before, your obsessiveness is undermining the point that you are clearly desperate to purvey. And that is doing you a disservice.

Btw, you've now posted 122 time on a THREAD ABOUT KEITH ANDREWS. You big freak.

BuckyRover · July 17, 2009

I think you wrong T4E. Jonno is of the few in this thread to cover himself in glory. He has been made out by many to be a lunatic, for supporting a Blackburn player that gives 100%.

There is nothing crazy about that. I would suggest constantly posting about Jonno is more crazy than posting about a Blackburn player on a Blackburn messageboard.

philipl · July 17, 2009

Apparently Reid and Emerton are doing fine but their rehab is not yet at being able to play friendly matches.

They will not be ready for the start of the season but should be in contention for selection during September.

Assuming they are both in decent nick by then, let's see if Keith a) gets picked, or is still at the club.

LeChuck · July 17, 2009

I think you wrong T4E. Jonno is of the few in this thread to cover himself in glory.

You get the feeling that's not the only thing he covers himself in when he talks about Andrews...

Tris · July 17, 2009

Apparently Reid and Emerton are doing fine but their rehab is not yet at being able to play friendly matches.
They will not be ready for the start of the season but should be in contention for selection during September.

Assuming they are both in decent nick by then, let's see if Keith a) gets picked, or B ) is still at the club.

Reid has started 28 PL games in 3 years. I think he was a great player and very much hope he gets back to where he was in 2005-06. They would have been desperate to get him ready for pre-season and it will be a big blow for him to already be so far behind the rest. As such, I don't think for a moment that he will walk back into contention and displace whoever starts with the shirts in central midfield.

At the moment, that is two from Andrews, Grella, Dunn and Nzonzi. If Emerton and Reid come back into contention at roughly the same time, I can't imagine they would both also be fighting for a CM spot (2 from 5 makes sense, 2 from 6 doesn't) - Emerton will be challenging for RM or RB.

tonyoz · July 17, 2009

Apparently Reid and Emerton are doing fine but their rehab is not yet at being able to play friendly matches.
They will not be ready for the start of the season but should be in contention for selection during September.

Assuming they are both in decent nick by then, let's see if Keith a) gets picked, or is still at the club.

Hmmm! It will certainly be good to see them both back in contention - especially Brett, we have missed his energy. Funnily enough though, I have a sneaking feeling that we are going to see a lot of Keith this season.

Jonnolad · July 17, 2009

This isn't aimed at you personally DP, but this repetitive argument is really so poor that it doesn't deserve any merit at all.
Have Allardyce, Hodson and Trapp, never picked a poor player?

The fact of the matter is though Den, the Andrews detractors have to continually make excuses for things like this. Whereas all that is needed by those who say Andrews is decent is say "Andrews is a decent player". Sorry to do this again but let's go through the things which point to Andrews being a decent player:

Sam Allardyce consistently starts with Andrews in vital matches: