[Archived] Beijing Olympics 2008

[M-K]

Missing a drugs test is exactly the same as failing one. You test positive, you fail. You don't show up for the test, you fail. Very simple rule.

There can be no excuses. No 'extenuating circumstances'. She got banned for a drugs offence, so she shouldn't be representing Britain at the Olympics.

Perhaps Dwain Chambers's mistake was to admit it instead of lying through his teeth like every other athlete who gets found out.

Or perhaps his mistake was that, unlike Ohuruogu, he wasn't a reigning world champion and hot medal prospect.

She did the crime, she should pay for it. Tainted gold - not that Ohuruogu or any of the many other cheats who win medals give a toss about that sort of thing.

[nowthen]

Missing a drugs test is exactly the same as failing one. You test positive, you fail. You don't show up for the test, you fail. Very simple rule.

There can be no excuses. No 'extenuating circumstances'. She got banned for a drugs offence, so she shouldn't be representing Britain at the Olympics.

Perhaps Dwain Chambers's mistake was to admit it instead of lying through his teeth like every other athlete who gets found out.

Or perhaps his mistake was that, unlike Ohuruogu, he wasn't a reigning world champion and hot medal prospect.

She did the crime, she should pay for it. Tainted gold - not that Ohuruogu or any of the many other cheats who win medals give a toss about that sort of thing.

She did pay for her 'crime' but your twisted logic that missing tests is the same as taking drugs to improve performance is frightening. Why are some so quick to detract from people achieving?

Read this. Independent commission...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/otherspor...s-no-cheat.html

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Article written by some Yahoo blogger- A little tongue in cheek but imo does carry some truth.

Look, I don't know much about gymnastics, but I do know that landing a vault on two feet is better than landing one on two knees. Olympic gymnastics judges evidently disagree with me, as they awarded China's Cheng Fei a bronze medal yesterday even after she fell on her vault landing. American Alicia Sacramone finished fourth despite, you know, not falling.

And today, 12-year old 16-year old Chinese gymnast He Kexin won gold over Nastia Liukin based on an obscure tiebreaking rule. The two received the same score from the judges, but He won a tiebreak because an Australian judge apparently was watching a different competition.

Every judging break seems to have gone China's way during these Olympics. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, I just think that judges are humans who are influenced by big names, fans and other external factors. Oh, and they're also terrible. Judged events will always be viewed with skepticism by those who lose for this reason, particularly those who lose to a member of the home delegation. (Think Roy Jones Jr. at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.)

It is because of this skewed inconsistency that Fourth-Place Medal introduces The Real 2008 Medal Count. Our medal count will tally medals won in sports decided on the field of play, not by a judge in a teal blazer.

The judged Olympic events we will ignore for our tally are: boxing, diving, equestrian, gymnastics, judo, taekwondo, trampoline and wrestling. We debated whether to include boxing, wrestling and the martial arts in the list, as they can be decided by competitors. However, because the judging is prone to error and shenaningans, we will include it.

The Real 2008 Medal Count

China: 22 gold; 11 silver; 11 bronze

United States: 21 gold; 19 silver; 21 bronze

As you can see, in the events where medals are determined by competitors rather than judges, the gold medal gap between China and the U.S. is greatly narrowed, and the total medal count is an American runaway. Counting the judged events, China has a commanding lead in golds. Hmmm... Nope, nothing fishy about that! (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/The-REAL-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,101537)

[blue phil]

Missing a drugs test is exactly the same as failing one. You test positive, you fail. You don't show up for the test, you fail. Very simple rule.

There can be no excuses. No 'extenuating circumstances'. She got banned for a drugs offence, so she shouldn't be representing Britain at the Olympics.

I'm afraid that is absolutely true . What this case shows is that if you don't take the test and stick to your story the you might , just might , get away with it . A bad precedent ....Chambers should have played his hand differently .

[Flopsy]

except he was caught taking drugs and then admitted to it.

Before those without sin start casting the first stones against her, read into why she was banned, the system that was in place, her punishment and why she was allowed to compete again.

[M-K]

For all the Ohuruogu apologists:

Linford Christie fails drug test in 1988. Says it was something in his 'ginseng tea' and is excused. Wins Olympics in 1992, becomes national hero.

Fails drugs test again in 1999, while in semi-retirement. Again there is a chance that the positive test could have been the result of metabolites from legal substances, but this time he is not so lucky. Banned.

In accordance with the BOA rules, Christie is refused accreditation to represent his athletes as a coach at subsequent Olympic games. He is excluded from the 2012 bid, routinely missed off surveys of 'Great British Olympians' and his 1992 achievement is now regarded with suspicion.

If only he'd known that all he had to do was not bother taking the tests in the first place! As long as his excuse was plausible, he'd have been fine.

Oh, and what about that Greek couple who supposedly faked a motorbike accident to avoid their tests? Similar result as Ohuruogu - they got away with it - but those two are openly called drug cheats in the British media. I'd be interested to know what the Americans and Jamaicans make of our golden Christine.

[Manchester Blue]

That's a very one-eyed view. Certainly from what I read she didn't fail to show up for a test, in Athletics you have to be avilable for random tests out of competion. She failed to provide the correct information and she was punished for it with a 12 month ban. She was tested plenty of times during competition and didn't fail once so to suggest the only difference was Dwain admitted it is nonsense.

From everything i'd heard she was guilty of poor planning and a bit of stupidity. I would have thought the difference in how her peers treated her compared to Dwain would tell you everything about how she is viewed. If you think that is because she was a medal prospect i'd suggest that you don't know very much about either case.

[neekoy]

The Australians are spewing that we are above them in the medal table. So much so, they've changed the way the table is calculated and changed it to medals per capita.

You couldn't make it up.

What are jibbering on about?

Since the start of the games they have had the per capita medal tally

Whilst you guys may be getting a different story it is well and truely seen as good fun here in OZ. In fact until GB overtook the medal tally this is the first time in my years of watching the olympics that this kind of rivalry has shown it's head. If you watch in interiew John Coates is actually laughing about it.

Anything to get one over on us I guess

There is an entirely different level of competitive attitude when it is Australia VS England

Great Britain is completely different and is not looked upon in the same way.

I know a lot of Australians including me have gone for the Brits (when Australia hasn't been involved) because I would rather see a Commonwealth country win.

[jim mk2]

Leave orf..........

Ned Kelly, Rolf Harris, Kylie, Dame Edna, your boys took one hell of a beating

[neekoy]

Leave orf..........

Ned Kelly, Rolf Harris, Kylie, Dame Edna, your boys took one hell of a beating

I don't actually know what you are saying Jimski, mother tongue and all that

Your boys took one hell of a beating? If this was Cricket or Rugby and we were VS England then I could give a toss but GB winning over Australia

In saying that I did go for Hoy being a Scotsman in the final keirin and am still happy with our overall medal count

[M-K]

That's a very one-eyed view. Certainly from what I read she didn't fail to show up for a test, in Athletics you have to be avilable for random tests out of competion. She failed to provide the correct information and she was punished for it with a 12 month ban. She was tested plenty of times during competition and didn't fail once so to suggest the only difference was Dwain admitted it is nonsense.

From everything i'd heard she was guilty of poor planning and a bit of stupidity. I would have thought the difference in how her peers treated her compared to Dwain would tell you everything about how she is viewed. If you think that is because she was a medal prospect i'd suggest that you don't know very much about either case.

Marion Jones was tested plenty of times in competition, too. The reason they have random tests is because it's very easy for an athlete to juice up during the off-season and get clean in time for competitions.

It might not sound fair on the poor little Brit who may well honestly be so utterly stupid that she's incapable of submitting to the random tests that every other athlete - bar the occasional cheat - manages to take.

However, the only way to be sure is to take a zero tolerance approach on every single case. No excuses. The moment you allow an athlete to say 'I forgot', or 'I was stuck in traffic' or 'I had sex with my wife and drank six bottles of beer', that's when you make a mockery of the entire anti-drugs movement.

As for what her peers think - it's irrelevant. And how many of them have you asked about this? Do you think public figures always give honest private opinions in newspaper interviews?

[Flopsy]

It wasnt that she didnt submit, it was that she didnt keep the 24hour list of where she was going to be up to date, a system that was flawed and has been updated and altered to take the case into account.

[nowthen]

M-K you really aren't paying attention are you. Read the link I posted and you can see she was tested plenty of times during the period of the 3 missed tests and was negative. You began yesterday by saying she was a cheat and now seem to want prove it by saying that other athletes (Jones, Chambers) have cheated and taken drugs so so must she yet you ignore Ohuruogu's individual case. Why?

[M-K]

It wasnt that she didnt submit, it was that she didnt keep the 24hour list of where she was going to be up to date, a system that was flawed and has been updated and altered to take the case into account.

Which part of 'zero tolerance' are you having trouble with?

The whole anti-doping system operates on the finest of margins. The odd part per million of a substance, the faintest trace of something that may well be present naturally in varying proportions in different individuals.

You simply can't change one of the fundamentals of the system - the necessity for year-round random tests and the consequences for missing them, regardless of excuses - without undermining the entire thing.

If you accept that she made a genuine mistake and she was hard done by in the first place, you must think she should never have had the 12-month ban in the first place. Perhaps she should sue for loss of revenue.

Anyway, what about the Greeks that I mentioned earlier? Kederis and Thanou, I think. A road accident sounds like a better excuse than failing to notify a tester.

[nowthen]

Which part of 'zero tolerance' are you having trouble with?

The whole anti-doping system operates on the finest of margins. The odd part per million of a substance, the faintest trace of something that may well be present naturally in varying proportions in different individuals.

You simply can't change one of the fundamentals of the system - the necessity for year-round random tests and the consequences for missing them, regardless of excuses - without undermining the entire thing.

If you accept that she made a genuine mistake and she was hard done by in the first place, you must think she should never have had the 12-month ban in the first place. Perhaps she should sue for loss of revenue.

Anyway, what about the Greeks that I mentioned earlier? Kederis and Thanou, I think. A road accident sounds like a better excuse than failing to notify a tester.

For a start, why not punish her? She made mistakes and deserved a ban but to ban her for life from the olympics because of a BOA by-law aimed at targetting drugs CHEATS is not what the by law was made for. She has never been proved to have cheated (your original point) in fact independent bodies have always been explicit that they do not believe her case has anything to do with drugs or evading drugs tests.

And stop citing the Kenteris and Thanou case, look into it first.

[Flopsy]

No, she missed 3 tests, was punished, and was allowed, on appeal, to go to the olympics. Or are you saying you know more about it than the courts of law and arbitration that ruled on the case.

I shall send you a link to a blog in the guardian. Please read what Tangerinedream writes about half way down, describing how and why she missed the tests.

The tests have been altered since this case occurred. She tested clean the day after the third missed test. She was punished by being banned for a year, I'm willing to give her a break. I dont hear you demanding Ferdinand be banned for wilfully missing a test he had been told about.

Blog

tangerinedream

August 20, 2008 12:56 AM

Manchester/gbr Every independent tribunal has concluded that she was guilty of carelessness not of drugs cheating. British atheletics operates a much stricter anti-drugs testing policy than that required by the IAAF - in Romania, Ukraine or Cuba this would not even be an issue because she would not have been tested in this way.

In fact you can have a higher degree of confidence that any British athlete (including Christine) is drugs free than athletes from just about any other country in the world. The simple reason for this is that most countries just operate an in competition drug testing regime which allows athletes to use drugs out of season knowing that they will have cleared their system several months down the line. The system that the British use means that even out of competition athletes can be caught with drugs in their system. Over the period in which Christine did miss her tests she was tested out of competition 11 times. Any time you do miss a test, you will be subject to a mandatory drugs test to check you have not "missed" the test to avoid drug detection

The Court of Arbitration has ruled on this - and ruled that forgetfulness was to blame;

The COA in their own words

"there is no suggestion that she is guilty of taking drugs... and, indeed, this case can be viewed in all the circumstances as a busy young athlete being forgetful"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/6527271.stm

british testing is unannounced. It can happen 5 days a week any day of the year. They will turn up to where you have said you will be on their schedule. There is no window. If you are not there, there is no phone call to see if you're just down the road, or had just changed training routine, or are stuck in traffic, or had to take your son to the doctors, you are not given 30 minutes to get your arse back over. You get a miss. If you get three missed tests in five years then you get an automatic ban. The CAS has looked at all the evidence and ruled that she was guilty of forgetfulness nothing more. And she has been punished for that.

Ohuruogu lives at home in Stratford with her family of eight and although athletes are generally encouraged to offer availability for testing at their home, she had switched that availability to training venues because previous early morning tests had disturbed her younger siblings.

Ohuruogu's third missed test happened when she was driving to a training session at Mile End and heard that there was a school sports day taking place there. At the suggestion of her coach, Lloyd Cowan, the session was switched to Crystal Palace.

And her second missed test is believed to have occurred when she was due to be working in the weights room at Northwick Park hospital, but her training session was switched to Mile End.

We have over 100 athletes who have not been precisely where they were supposed to be at any given hour on any given day over an 18month period. It has also been revised in light of the massive problems caused to athletes since Ohurougu was banned. These problems included a very rigid structure for reporting whereabouts, limited ways of being able to change one's location at the last minute, and a general under appreciation of just how draconian the system was.

Some people after all this will suggest that it is just making excuses, well it's not. I think that it was entirely correct that she was banned for a year. Missing three drugs tests whatever the circumstances is a serious offence and deserved a punishment. On top of that one-year ban she will have to carry the stigma of that ban for the rest of her life. Many people when they hear "drugs ban" will assume that she's guilty without knowing the facts of the case, and this itself is a pretty high price.

Some people will also bring up comparisons with Dwain Chambers and decide that it is hypocritical for the British Olympic Association to ban him while allowing Christine to compete. This ignores the fact that the two situations are very different, and thus do not merit the same punishment. Testing positive for a banned performance enhancing drug should rightly result in a lifetime Olympic ban. The only reason that the British Olympic Association had to go to an arbitration panel over whether missed tests should constitute the same punishment is that the lifetime ban rules were written long before the current out of competition testing regime was adopted.

Unfortunately, some people will always think she's guilty. And if the testimony in Christine's favour of both current and former athletes (some of them very outspoken in the anti-drugs message), if the British Olympic Association's arbitration panel ruling in Christine's favour or if the Court of arbitration of sport's conclusion that there was no evidence that this was anything other than an honest if very stupid mistake, if none of this can convince people to change their minds then so be it. But I honestly believe that anyone who genuinely takes an in-depth look at this case will conclude that she is not a "drugs cheat" and that her victory can be celebrated with a clear heart.

[M-K]

Well, we're obviously never going to see eye to eye on this. I think you'd have less sympathy for her if she wasn't British

edit: But at the risk of repeating myself, drug tests work on the finest of margins, and it's entirely possible to test differently on successive days. As for Ferdinand, what's he got to do with anything? Football is notoriously slack in its anti-drug policy. Presumably he wouldn't be allowed to go to the Olympics as an over-age player if there was a British team.

[Flopsy]

But he missed a drugs test, he should be banned from everything from your reasoning.

I respect your view and I understand the reasoning behind it, I just think you're wrong in this instance.

[nowthen]

It's clear I agree with you Flopsy. My final points are that I'm not sympathetic because Ohuruogu is British, it just meant that I've read a variety of sources on the case to make sure I'm happy that she isn't a cheat representing Britain; also this notion that she was only allowed to compete in the Olympics because she had chance of gold is flawed as there are at least 2 other GB athletes (Cousins and Don) who were also given the same dispensation.

[3rdpillar]

I think its because she missed a test, whereas Dwain failed his test.

Like Reo Ferdinand "missed" his drugs test.. .

[Billy Castell]

Usain Bolt has just won the 200m in a world record 19.30 seconds miles ahead of Crawford.

[AlanK]

and in to a head wind....staggering

Don`t worry, jim Mk11 will have him next time

[Billy Castell]

Actually AlanK, he might. I think there are loopholes regarding bionic hip replacements.

[Flopsy]

Like Reo Ferdinand "missed" his drugs test.. .

nope, nothing like that, read the otehr posts.

Bolt - bloody hell thats 100m every 9.65 seconds -

[jim mk2]

Congrats to Tasha Danvers in the women's 400m hurdles.

Enjoyed Bolt's run - wonderful to see our former colonies doing so well.