[Archived] Everton Preview

[waggy]

have to say i watched the last hour in the pub,had a fiver on santa for the last goal,could not celebrate a fluky last minute win

[JAL]

Who was that potential donkey England defender putting his hand up for offside as Roque ran past him from three yards behind to score past an exposed Everton goalie.

Embarrassing !!!Surely England can find better players than this.

[Ronin]

On the weekend's showing and if they can't get decent players in, I can really see Everton struggling. They used to have an up season followed by a down season. It's been a while since they've have a downturn in form but maybe this year is it. Which would be good for us as they would've been seen as one of our rivals in that bunch of teams slogging it out for the UEFA Cup places.

[American]

I like the Robinson signing, but was a bit concerned yesterday watching him. There were a couple of times his reflexes didn't seem to be the greatest. Hopefully, though, this will improve over the course of the next couple of matches.

Thought Dunn had some great runs forward, especially the one give and go that led to a free kick.

[roversmum]

The report in the Mail says the referees apologised to Moyes after the match for allowing Nelsen's 'offside' header .

Did anyone else spot Howard step out of his area with the ball in the second half? Was right in front of us, asst ref was up the other end of the pitch.

[philipl]

I know there is a general consensus about Nelsen being offside but in the TV coverage I have seen, there were two Everton defenders well ahead of Nelsen when he made contact with the ball and no issuue was made by the commentators about any offside.

[Eddie]

It's not about when you make contact with the ball, it's about when the ball is played.

[daren]

Ah, come on now Philip - we all know that it's from when the ball was played.

I watched the replays closely, and to be honest I initially thought it was Ooijer, although apparently it wasn't. Either way, the Everton defenders were running back, and it was a very close thing

[den]

As for MOTD making a fuss about the offside, what's the point? - we all know it was offside. It would have been far more interesting to get the ref assessors verdict on what is and what isn't deemed to be handball. Has it to be "intentional"?

No point debating the offside in that instant.

[tonyoz]

Nelsen was offside.

[modes98]

Also there was a touch and go offside for Everton's second.

[LeChuck]

I know there is a general consensus about Nelsen being offside but in the TV coverage I have seen, there were two Everton defenders well ahead of Nelsen when he made contact with the ball and no issuue was made by the commentators about any offside.

Congratulations Philip, putting your football knowledge on display to the world. Again.

As for MOTD making a fuss about the offside, what's the point? - we all know it was offside.

No point debating the offside in that instant.

As long as you have a similar view next time an obviously bad decision goes against us - fair enough.

Re Reid: Players always get penalised when they have their arms up like that. There was no intent as such, but his arms shouldn't have been outstretched in the first place. A very similar decision went against Liverpool in their European game last week, those decisions will always be given.

[Hasta]

I've been away for the weekend so seen or heard little about the game. I've not watched the recording of Football First yet.

Did we crumble due to lack of star players?

Did are infighting hurt us badly?

Did Ince's archaic training methods leave us woefully unprepared and lacking fitness?

Are we doomed to relegation?

Thought not.

[philipl]

Just to help you boys and girls, the Everton players were well ahead when the ball was headed and I don't think they were sprinting.

I have not had the benefit of seeing an in-line camera view when Warnock hit the free kick so as I can only go by the fact the ball was whipped in means it must have been mighty close.

[LeChuck]

Just to help you boys and girls, the Everton players were well ahead when the ball was headed and I don't think they were sprinting.

I have not had the benefit of seeing an in-line camera view when Warnock hit the free kick so as I can only go by the fact the ball was whipped in means it must have been mighty close.

Don't be so patronising, especially when you're 100% wrong.

It wasn't 'mighty close', Nelsen was a good yard offside when the ball was played. Where he was when he made contact with the ball is completely irrelevant, as everyone on this board knows...except you.

Anyway, Den has the right idea about all this, it doesn't need discussing, so I'll leave it at that.

[thenodrog]

Just to help you boys and girls, the Everton players were well ahead when the ball was headed and I don't think they were sprinting. SO WHAT?

I have not had the benefit of seeing an in-line camera view when Warnock hit the free kick TOUGH so as I can only go by the fact the ball was whipped in means it must have been mighty close. RUBBISH

Nelsen was offside by a long way... 4ft of daylight I'd estimate when the BALL WAS KICKED. Why do you find that simple task of acknowledging that you have made a mistake so difficult to accept?

[Mr Creosote]

"Why do you find that simple task of acknowledging that you have made a mistake so difficult to accept?"

I think I'll bookmark that.

[philipl]

Don't be so patronising, especially when you're 100% wrong.

It wasn't 'mighty close', Nelsen was a good yard offside when the ball was played. Where he was when he made contact with the ball is completely irrelevant, as everyone on this board knows...except you.

Anyway, Den has the right idea about all this, it doesn't need discussing, so I'll leave it at that.

ha ha

Some norn suggested I don't know the offside rule so and I explained that I hadn't seen a camera angle showing the defensive line at the moment the ball was hit.

Tell you what though, those Everton defenders would give Usain Bolt a run for his money if Nelsen was a yard off when the ball was struck.

[daren]

Philip, here's a link - the second angle shows the line.

[philipl]

Philip, here's a link - the second angle shows the line.

I froze it as Warnock kicks and Lescott has already moved early so he is level with Nelsen behind him at that precise moment. The linesman is on the far side so he would see Lescott clearly but Nelsen would be obscured.

From the camera angle it looks like Nelsen is off but there is a blue shadow behind him.

Watch Lescott's movement in the first clip ignoring everything else and you can see him go earlier than his tem mates.

[Hughesy]

Pause it on 10 seconds, you can see Nelsen is probably 1-2 yards offside.

[colin]

Hang on a mo chaps.

I may be mistaken here but isn't the "active" / "inactive" interpretation playing a part here. (You may think the law is rubbish, but it's the one in force at the moment. Whether or not it's a bad law is for another debate.)

If Nelsen was offside when Warnock took the free kick, but he moved away from the Everton goal & the Everton defence moved back towards their goal so that Nelsen was onside when he headed the ball, then doesn't this fall under the "active/inactive" interpretation of the offside law?

It's rather like Henry & Van Nistelroy & others who used to stand in offside positions as free kicks were taken in the hope of confusing defenders. As soon as the free kick was taken they'd get themselves back onside.

Or am I missing something here?

[philipl]

No, Nelsen is at no point offside.

Ooijer is at 10 secs just before the ball is struck and not at 11 secs just after it is struck.

[Scotty]

I knew Nelsen was offside because I've seen the goal a few times already, but i did you the courtesy of watching the clip again - and this time I froze the picture as Warnock hit the ball.

Guess what, Nelsen was offside!

Why can't you see that?

[daren]

The clip is a little confusing, I admit, and the quality isn't great, but it IS Nelsen, and he is - just - offside as the ball is hit. The Everton defenders are moving quickly back, though, so immediately after the ball is hit, he's back on. This must have thrown the linesman.