[Archived] Fox Hunting Ban

[Flopsy]

it was a sop to the left of the labour party to get them to support the new labour policies

[blue phil]

You mean it wasn't about the fluffy foxes at all ?

[BiggusLaddus]

What nonsense. There are hundreds of tiny laws and adjustments made every year, just because this received higher media attention don't assume everything else. There's absolutely no logic to 'well there are bigger problems, let's concentrate on those', because the decisions involve entirely different people.

And to some it is really a problem - including myself. Regardless of what a lot of people think on here, that kind of policy would seriously influence my decision on who to vote for.

It isn't nonsense at all. An enormous amount of time was spent on that bill. It was debated in parliament several times and was forced through the Lords with the threat of the Parliament Act (used 3 times before in history?).

At the same time we were going to war with Iraq and I'm fairly sure I'm remembering this right that an emergency meeting was called by the Tories on this matter that hardly any Labour MP's turned up for, preferring to wait for the fox hunting vote where they packed the house.

*edit to add*

I've just wiki'd the Parliament Act and since it was last amended in 1949 it has been used four times in total;

Once by the Tories in 1991 to extend jurisdiction of UK courts to Nazi war crimes and three times by this Labour administration (1999 change to European Parliament voting system, 2000 reducing gay age of consent to 16, 2004 fox hunting).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Ac...Parliament_Acts

[thenodrog]

I totally disagree with killing animals (of whatever nature, horse, bird or fox) for the fun of it or as a 'sport'.

And if foxes shared your sensibilities they wouldn't be hunted. Fact of the matter is that foxes enjoy killing and do not kill simply to survive.

If the torries are using that as one of thier tactics then they are pathetic,

Doesn't he play for Lpool?

[SouthAussieRover]

Doesn't he play for Lpool?

No, that is Torres you're thinking of

[thenodrog]

No, that is Torres you're thinking of

Oh I see err ... thanks Don.

[Billy Castell]

it was a sop to the left of the labour party to get them to support the new labour policies

Indeed, it was so vigourously pursued by Tony so the few lefties that were around didn't complain too much about policies such as PFI schemes introduced into the NHS, top up fees etc. And the idiots fell for it. It was a minor policy that got far too much effort and debate at the time. What I was objecting to in my previous post that people who do the hunts are breaking the law, and believe that different rules apply to them. It is quite arrogant.

[thenodrog]

What I was objecting to in my previous post that people who do the hunts are breaking the law, and believe that different rules apply to them. It is quite arrogant.

Do you drive a car Billy?

[Billy Castell]

No, I can't drive. What is your point?

[BuckyRover]

I was watching Top Gear and it informed me (or misinformed) that it is now common practice to chase the foxes down with dogs and then before they hounds kill the fox, it is shot by a farmer.

Well done Labour. Money well spent.

The fact is foxes need to be controlled, they kill livestock for fun. People say well they shouldn't have fun doing it, why not? It has to be done, so they might as well enjoy it!

[thenodrog]

No, I can't drive. What is your point?

You are describing 99.999999 recurring of motorisists to perfection.

[colin]

It may be missing the point to have a go at the fox-hunting ban as being "toff-bashing." The hunting set has always maintained that those joining the hunt come from all walks of life. Although it is hard to see how people from the lower income bracket can afford to either own a horse or hire one for a day's hunting.

The ban is on because, like (1) bear-bating; (2) badger bating; (3) cock-fighting; & (4) dog fighting, (5)fox hunting is an anachronism which harks back to times when organising the killing of animals for fun & sport was socially acceptable.

I'd suggest that (1-4) were banned because they were cruel and had the lower classes as the audience. (5) had the backing of the upper classes and has, until recently been allowed. I'd like to hear someone justify both fox-hunting with hounds & sticking a couple of American Pit Bull terriers in a hole and watching them try and kill each other.

If foxes are vermin then deal with them appropriately. No need for some antiquated procession. Funny how no one dresses up in "the pink" to hunt down moles or rabbits. Although I'd quite enjoy the sight of 50 Hooray Henrys & Henriettas on horseback tracking down moles. Or rats.

Himalayan Balsam. Now that's something they could have a crack at.

[BuckyRover]

It may be missing the point to have a go at the fox-hunting ban as being "toff-bashing." The hunting set has always maintained that those joining the hunt come from all walks of life. Although it is hard to see how people from the lower income bracket can afford to either own a horse or hire one for a day's hunting.

The ban is on because, like (1) bear-bating; (2) badger bating; (3) cock-fighting; & (4) dog fighting, (5)fox hunting is an anachronism which harks back to times when organising the killing of animals for fun & sport was socially acceptable.

I'd suggest that (1-4) were banned because they were cruel and had the lower classes as the audience. (5) had the backing of the upper classes and has, until recently been allowed. I'd like to hear someone justify both fox-hunting with hounds & sticking a couple of American Pit Bull terriers in a hole and watching them try and kill each other.

If foxes are vermin then deal with them appropriately. No need for some antiquated procession. Funny how no one dresses up in "the pink" to hunt down moles or rabbits. Although I'd quite enjoy the sight of 50 Hooray Henrys & Henriettas on horseback tracking down moles. Or rats.

Himalayan Balsam. Now that's something they could have a crack at.

They are vermin. They do need to be controlled.

There is no evidence that hunting is more cruel than the methods used now.

So what was the point in banning it? Cheap political gesturing (Something this Government is quite adept at)

[thenodrog]

They are vermin. They do need to be controlled.

There is no evidence that hunting is more cruel than the methods used now.

So what was the point in banning it? Cheap political gesturing (Something this Government is quite adept at)

I am seeing signs that suggest you are maturing a bit Bucky. Keep it up.

[blue phil]

The ban is on because, like (1) bear-bating; (2) badger bating; (3) cock-fighting; & (4) dog fighting, (5)fox hunting is an anachronism which harks back to times when organising the killing of animals for fun & sport was socially acceptable.

If foxes are vermin then deal with them appropriately. No need for some antiquated procession. Funny how no one dresses up in "the pink" to hunt down moles or rabbits. Although I'd quite enjoy the sight of 50 Hooray Henrys & Henriettas on horseback tracking down moles. Or rats.

1 to 4 are quite rightly banned because they are killed purely for entertainment .

No 5 is quite a different matter completely . Foxes are killed because they are vermin .

So basically the problem is all about the "class" and dress code of those doing the killing .

Methinks it's those who spent millions trying to outlaw it all who are a little "antiquated" in their thought process .

[colin]

1 to 4 are quite rightly banned because they are killed purely for entertainment .

No 5 is quite a different matter completely . Foxes are killed because they are vermin .

So basically the problem is all about the "class" and dress code of those doing the killing .

Methinks it's those who spent millions trying to outlaw it all who are a little "antiquated" in their thought process .

Fox hunting with hounds & horses was entertainment. Nobody in their right economic mind who actually needed to get rid of foxes would take the option of:

(a)dressing up like a Victorian aristocrat

(b)riding a horse

©blowing a horn & other antiquated rituals

(d)using a pack of hounds which was otherwise unused

(e)making a social event of the process

(f)claiming that it was some kind of historic country ritual which needed to be preserved

Rats are vermin. Grey squirrels too. No-one togs-up for a fun day out to kill them. Why foxes? If they are vermin either trap them or shoot them.

[thenodrog]

Is this guaranteed to happen anyway? I find it odd that the intention / suggestion from opposition parties to reverse contentious and unpopular governmental decisions never extended to the Labour party re-nationalising the industries privatised under Mrs Thatchers Tory rule.

Why exactly would that be? They surely promised that they would do exactly that enough times when they were returned to power. Any pointers Jim? scotchrover? the Manc rabble?

[blue phil]

Fox hunting with hounds & horses was entertainment. Nobody in their right economic mind who actually needed to get rid of foxes would take the option of:

(a)dressing up like a Victorian aristocrat

(b)riding a horse

©blowing a horn & other antiquated rituals

(d)using a pack of hounds which was otherwise unused

(e)making a social event of the process

(f)claiming that it was some kind of historic country ritual which needed to be preserved

Rats are vermin. Grey squirrels too. No-one togs-up for a fun day out to kill them. Why foxes? If they are vermin either trap them or shoot them.

But what does it matter if the end result is the fox getting killed ?

Are you THAT concerned over the economics of the farmer or the blokes doing the killing ?

Be honest , Col . You're still fighting a childish class war that the average fifth former has grown out of . So some blokes like dressing up in funny clothes and blowing horns ......you're usually supportive of that kind of thing

[colin]

But what does it matter if the end result is the fox getting killed ?

Are you THAT concerned over the economics of the farmer or the blokes doing the killing ?

Be honest , Col . You're still fighting a childish class war that the average fifth former has grown out of . So some blokes like dressing up in funny clothes and blowing horns ......you're usually supportive of that kind of thing

Thanks for that bit I've put in bold. Not too sure why you needed to write it or what it means but I'l let it pass

No one gets together to eliminate any other vermin be it rats, grey squirrels, wasps nests, mice, japanese knotweed or Himalayan balsam.

Having fun killing animals has gone. Reduced to the dustbin of history.

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again. Please read my posts before you kick in with your knee-jerk reaction.

Thank you.

The sun rises in the east.

[blue phil]

Having fun killing animals has gone. Reduced to the dustbin of history.

Please read my posts before you kick in with your knee-jerk reaction.

Incorrect as always . It carries on . Maybe if you left the city every now and then you'd realise how out of touch you are and how naive you sound . The law is not enforced . Porbably because (like its adherents) it is based on nothing more than immature prejudices .

As for your posts the inumerable absurdities contained within sometimes oblige me to respond . You could prevent that .........but it might mean not posting while the sun rises

[colin]

Maybe if you left the city every now and then you'd realise how out of touch you are and how naive you sound . The law is not enforced . Porbably because (like its adherents) it is based on nothing more than immature prejudices .

As for your posts the inumerable absurdities contained within sometimes oblige me to respond . You could prevent that .........but it might mean not posting while the sun rises

Thanks for that.

You couldn't have been more robust with your confirmation that you cannot actually hold your side in a discussion about the pros & cons of fox hunting.

That post of yours contains no reasoned arguement about the ethics of fox-hunting, just 100% personal insult & unfounded assumptions.

[BiggusLaddus]

Thanks for that bit I've put in bold. Not too sure why you needed to write it or what it means but I'l let it pass

No one gets together to eliminate any other vermin be it rats, grey squirrels, wasps nests, mice, japanese knotweed or Himalayan balsam.

Having fun killing animals has gone. Reduced to the dustbin of history.

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again. Please read my posts before you kick in with your knee-jerk reaction.

Thank you.

The sun rises in the east.

Balls.

Angling is one of the worlds favourite pastimes and in some cases sports. No one in this country needs to go fishing to put food on the table, after buying all the tackle and bait its probably as cheep in the supermarket, but they do because they enjoy it.

People do get together to shoot grey squirrels, they are called conservationists. Some of them might even enjoy it.

There are loads of companies who specialise in pest control who kill rats, mice and destroy wasp nests everyday. Do they all work in those jobs because there is nothing else they could do or do some of them enjoy it do you think?

Foxes are vermin and they do need to be controlled. Why should it make any difference whether the dispatcher enjoys it or not?

I have to say that your above posts read much more like squeamishness and envy rather than any real compassion for the animals involves.

[Billy Castell]

I think if I ever took up fishing, I'll eat what I catch as there is a point. If you're putting a hook in its mouth it seems a bit silly throwing it back in the water. However, I'd not eat anything if I caught a condom or anything like that before you say it. Or a shark for that matter.

One of my dads friends in Bedford is obsessed with fishing. He spends all his weekends doing it no matter what weather. In fact he went with his son to New Zealand and stayed with my uncle. My aunt and uncle kept trying to show him Auckland and whatnot, but all he did was go and fish. So he ended up flying on a plane for 24 hours to do something he could have done in Bedford. I know this post doesn't add to the debate, but the story might raise a smile.

[colin]

Foxes are vermin and they do need to be controlled. Why should it make any difference whether the dispatcher enjoys it or not?

I have to say that your above posts read much more like squeamishness and envy rather than any real compassion for the animals involves.

Biggus,

I am neither squeamish nor envious of people who go fox-hunting. I 've not really got any compassion for foxes above any other animal.

I think you have missed my point (for which I apologise for my possible incoherence) in that fox-hunters do it for nothing. In fact they pay good money to have a horse, an outfit, a share in a pack of hounds, a bloke with a horn and then go off for a ride to kill a fox in the most inconceivably uneconomic way possible. Oh, and possibly in a fairly inhuman manner.

They do it for fun & leisure in the same way that badger baiting; bear baiting; cock fighting & dog fighting were once done for fun & leisure. Same for hare coursing really. Or otter hunting.

If an animal is deemed to be vermin, then deal with it in a manner suitable for the 21st century.

The National Farmers' Union is currently up in arms about DEFRA's decision not to have a badger cull to get rid of TB in cattle. If it ws given the go-ahead would the cull be on horse-back with stirrup-cups & horns? Probably not.

I'm really not sure why a fox is the target of this unwholesome campagn.

[thenodrog]

We're discussing petty issues like fox hunting on here whilst everybody else is discussing assasination attempts on the PM.