[Archived] Fox Hunting Ban

[Bazzanotsogreat]

We're discussing petty issues like fox hunting on here whilst everybody else is discussing assasination attempts on the PM.

Thats this board though theno like it or lump it. I wasnt a member 2001; when september the 11th happened- but I can imagine that people discussing the comparitive hardness of geese & swanns or where to buy a comb rather than 9/11. - Its just the war people are on here

[dave birch]

If you two really have aneed to discuss these things, there's an open forum on the LT's website that would, no doubt, welcome you both.

It's fairly obvious any discussion is not going to get very far here.

Bye

[Spencer]

The pejorative word "vermin" has been mentioned many times in this thread in relation to foxes. But I don't understand - perhaps someone can explain? How can a fox (or any creature) be classed as "vermin"? Surely he or she is just another animal (like you or me) trying to make the best of the life he/she was born into? I can, kind of, see the term applied to, for example, an individual animal that is rabid and a danger to others but why would that equate to an entire species?

In short, can anyone give me a definition of the word "vermin" as it applies to any animal (mammal, bird, insect, fish or reptile) that justifies hunting them down and killing them - other than for the whims and prejudices of humans?

[colin]

here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin

It's all subjective of course.

I don't really care about foxes, but if I was a farmer or had a bunch of them yowling in my back garden & cra99ing on the lawn I'd probably change my mind.

Maybe some of our Aussie bretheren could give us the story on cane-toads, rabbits, camels....................

[dave birch]

here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin

It's all subjective of course.

I don't really care about foxes, but if I was a farmer or had a bunch of them yowling in my back garden & cra99ing on the lawn I'd probably change my mind.

Maybe some of our Aussie bretheren could give us the story on cane-toads, rabbits, camels....................

Colin, Cane toads, an experiment gone wrong, the authorities still trying to work out what to do; rabbits, have been hit with miximatosis and then the calici virus, wiped out about 70% but they are coming back (a suggested read is Russel Braddon's Year of the Angry Rabbit, an amusing 1950's tome on solutions going wrong) and camels, they breed them in the centre and export them to the middle east!

Edit: forgot the Fox, Farmers, and local pastoral organisations lay bait for them to keep them under control.

[Spencer]

here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin

It's all subjective of course.

I don't really care about foxes, but if I was a farmer or had a bunch of them yowling in my back garden & cra99ing on the lawn I'd probably change my mind.

Maybe some of our Aussie bretheren could give us the story on cane-toads, rabbits, camels....................

A bit of a lazy answer, don't you think Colin? We'll just ignore the " without the whims and prejudices of humans" bit of my post, shall we?

From Wikipedia:

"Since the term is defined in relation to human activities, which species are included will vary from area to area and even person to person."

And, by the way, cane-toads, rabbits, camels and foxes were all introduced species to Australia so I don't really see the relevance.

[colin]

A bit of a lazy answer, don't you think Colin? We'll just ignore the " without the whims and prejudices of humans" bit of my post, shall we?

OK, just doing my bit to try & provide an answer to your question. If my effort isn't good enough for you feel free to go elsewhere. You've obviously got your answer anyway.

Please accept my apologies for tryng to chip in with a bit of discussion.

[blue phil]

That post of yours contains no reasoned arguement about the ethics of fox-hunting, just 100% personal insult & unfounded assumptions.

On the contrary .

I'm still waiting for a reasoned response as to why the dress code of a person killing "vermin" (whatever its definition) arouses so much angst in some quarters and why - if it's not some perceived class prejudice - that the whole matter had to go through parliament .

Your assertion that "......having fun killing animals has gone. Reduced to the dustbin of history" is quite simply the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long while . I know of a couple of locals near me who'll think nothing of travelling to Scotland to do a spot of hunting . I take it you've never heard of the Glorious Twelth - the beginning of the shooting season . Nor have you seem to have heard of the sport of angling ....

All in all , Colin , I think it comes down to a bit of old fashioned class envy and prejudice and you haven't come close to proffering a reason why it isn't.

Oh - and this assertion that you are being "personally insulted" every time I demolish your half baked theories is just a little tiresome . You seem to have a bit of a problem with people who disagree with you for some reason ....

[colin]

Hi Phil

I'm still waiting for a reasoned response as to why the dress code of a person killing "vermin" (whatever its definition) arouses so much angst in some quarters and why

It's just indicative of the killing for fun, rather than out of need. "Let's spend a shed-load of money and go and kill something." The dress code does not cause me angst. For you to suggest that it does is rather a distraction, and incorrect. It doesn't. It would be rather like me suggesting that this post has caused you so much angst that you felt a desire to go out and have carnal knowledge with the ewes in your local farm. I sincerely hope it doesn't.

I take it you've never heard of the Glorious Twelth - the beginning of the shooting season . Nor have you seem to have heard of the sport of angling ....

I have. The title of this thread is "Foxhunting."

All in all , Colin , I think it comes down to a bit of old fashioned class envy and prejudice and you haven't come close to proffering a reason why it isn't

That's your opinion: you put forward a reason why it is. If you can do so then I'll have a look at it and maybe reply.

Oh - and this assertion that you are being "personally insulted" every time I demolish your half baked theories is just a little tiresome . You seem to have a bit of a problem with people who disagree with you for some reason ....

Your post dated 21st August at 21:00 stands as a good example of personal insult & nil content on the subject under discussion. And the quote above doesn't realy help does it?

[SouthAussieRover]

Dear Colin and BP please rent a room somewhere and get it on.

You're like an old married couple bickering away.

Please could you save the rest of the MB from your ongoing spats.

As for foxhunting,I've no problems with foxes being slaughtered although there are more humane ways than being ripped apart by hounds.

[American]

I have. The title of this thread is "Foxhunting."

Interesting that you were the one who said "......having fun killing animals has gone. Reduced to the dustbin of history"

I do realise that a fox is an animal, but for someone who started broadening the context, seems like your usual cop out to me.

[Billy Castell]

If this was a TV movie, it would be about now that Colin and Phil suddenly passionately kiss, and then be getting out of bed and getting dressed in the next scene.

[scotchrover]

As for foxhunting,I've no problems with foxes being slaughtered although there are more humane ways than being ripped apart by hounds.

How awful, how would you like if you where that animal.

It a diabolical sport if you can call it that and for the people who hunt these poor,harmless creatures well you should be stuck in the field with a load of bears running after you.

The people who do this kind of stuff are upper class twits.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

How awful, how would you like if you where that animal.

It a diabolical sport if you can call it that and for the people who hunt these poor,harmless creatures well you should be stuck in the field with a load of bears running after you.

The people who do this kind of stuff are upper class twits.

You are a pathetic inverted snob

[scotchrover]

whats that suppose to mean and more to the point, do you support ripping the animals guts out????

[Bazzanotsogreat]

whats that suppose to mean and more to the point, do you support ripping the animals guts out????

Irrespective of my personal view on fox-hunting ( I personally believe that the reason this issue has been re-raised is a smokescreen for New labour to try and hide their hideous failures behind).

Your argument is nullified as soon as you open your mouth. You are so brainwashed against anyone who is isn’t northern, working class Labour that you cant be taken seriously. There are good amongst all classes of society upper, middle & lower- yet you seem to have a ‘stereotyped myopic’ vision against anyone who is not working class.

[scotchrover]

where do you come from or now live?

and

I have family living in Aldershot, Hampshire FACT.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

where do you come from or now live?

What the funk has that got to do with anything? your posts are so clichead clichéd & predictable, they hardly warrant a response. You are either on School holidays or have been indoctrinated by some ‘Northern’ Bolshevik training camp.

and

I have family living in Aldershot, Hampshire FACT.

[colin]

If this was a TV movie, it would be about now that Colin and Phil suddenly passionately kiss, and then be getting out of bed and getting dressed in the next scene.

Thanks Billy.

That was a slap round the face with a wet haddock that I probably needed.

Note to self: must not get involved with pointless arguements with that onanist Blue Phil.

[blue phil]

That could be construed as cruelty , Colin .

......to the Haddock that is .

[Billy Castell]

Get a room Phil

[thenodrog]

<!--quoteo(post=660764:date=Aug 16 2008, 00:15 :name=El Tombro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (El Tombro @ Aug 16 2008, 00:15 ) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=660764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I totally disagree with killing animals (of whatever nature, horse, bird or fox) for the fun of it or as a 'sport'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And if foxes shared your sensibilities they wouldn't be hunted. Fact of the matter is that foxes enjoy killing and do not kill simply to survive.

There are so many foxes about nowadays both urban and rural that it was only a matter of time before this type of incident happened. Very many warnings given at the time only to be drowned out amidst screams of frothy sentiment rooted in the ignorance of modern urban society.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3002340/Twin-babies-were-mauled-in-their-beds-by-a-fox.html

btw 'humane baited traps'!

[LeChuck]

Err...the lesson there is to keep your bloody doors shut when young children are in the house, not to go out slaughtering animals.

[roversmum]

whats that suppose to mean and more to the point, do you support ripping the animals guts out????

Foxes rather like doing that, have you seen a coop of chickens after a fox has been at them? They kill for fun.

Truth is, foxes may be pretty but unfortunately they are a pest, and there are many of them in urban areas now. I've seen two in London fairly recently, in very highly populated and built up areas.

Not a fan of blood sports, but gosh, some of you have chips on your shoulders about perceived 'class' haven't you?

[LeChuck]

Didn't I read you have something to do with the Conservatives, Mum?