[Archived] Fox Hunting Ban

[broadsword]

My mate had his prize rabbit killed my a fox. Ripped to shreds.

I'd prefer it if there was a humane way to kill them - but was one ever proposed when hunting was banned? Mind you, I don't suppose there's a hunt goes through East London, is there?

You can't go leaving your doors open at night, that's just mad. I don't care how hot it is.

[thenodrog]

Err...the lesson there is to keep your bloody doors shut when young children are in the house, not to go out slaughtering animals.

Thats just being stupid. If it wasn't your kids it would be someone elses. If not that their pet rabbit / guinea pig / cat. They simply don't belong in urban areas and are only there because a. our food is way too cheap and b. stringent modern gun laws.

I hope that the current trend away from battery hens to free range layers will see fox numbers significantly reduced in the coming years.

[roversmum]

Didn't I read you have something to do with the Conservatives, Mum?

So? As it happens, I was also a very active Trade Union member. during my working life. My family were railway workers. I have not had an easy life. However, I am blessed with a lack of envy towards those who are better off than I am. I am proud to be a Conservative.

[LeChuck]

I wasn't suggesting anything about your life, I just meant it explains your (apparently) pro-fox hunting stance.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's right that we urbanise areas then think we have the right to kill animals that venture there. If some irresponsible parent had closed their door then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I bet other countries, with far more dangerous wildlife than us, are laughing out our reaction to this.

[broadsword]

I think we have every right to kill foxes that encroach into urban areas. We're not talking about green belt land that's been concreted over here. If it comes down to them or us, it's gotta be us.

[LeChuck]

If it comes down to them or us, it's gotta be us.

That's the thing though...that isn't the case.

Obviously I'd have a very different viewpoint if there had been numerous accounts of foxes attacking people. This only happened because someone didn't shut their door.

One isolated incident doesn't warrant hunting an entire species. The ones who will use this to campaign to have it reinstated will only do so because they get a perverse thrill out of killing the animals, not because they're worried about the welfare of society.

Ironically they'll be the same people on the news recently telling us not to be hasty about tightening gun ownership laws.

[philipl]

Good luck on wiping out urban foxes- the young easily travel 20+ miles looking for their new territories. Enough to get from any coppice to the middle of any city in the UK.

One good thing about urban foxes is they keep the rat population in check and by and large don't physically attack humans- this story is all over the papers because it is so utterly unusual- similar dog attack on human stories (15,000 requiring stitches last year in the UK) mostly go unreported.

That said, I am glad the foxes that set home down the back of our garden in London some ten years ago moved on and no other foxes came back. The Russian Blue next door probably sorted them- that is one scary big domestic cat!

[koi]

Good luck on wiping out urban foxes- the young easily travel 20+ miles looking for their new territories. Enough to get from any coppice to the middle of any city in the UK.

One good thing about urban foxes is they keep the rat population in check and by and large don't physically attack humans- this story is all over the papers because it is so utterly unusual- similar dog attack on human stories (15,000 requiring stitches last year in the UK) mostly go unreported.

That said, I am glad the foxes that set home down the back of our garden in London some ten years ago moved on and no other foxes came back. The Russian Blue next door probably sorted them- that is one scary big domestic cat!

The flea-ridden mangy mutt that has evolved in our cities and towns has no interest in rats, they like easy food that's why they are there. Many of the foxes that are removed from built-up areas and released in the wild quite often die from starvation as they are incapable of hunting for food - I've seen countless dead foxes with barely any hair and nothing but skin and bone. The fact that you see so many foxes during the day shows they how removed they are from their country brethren. We used to day if you see a fox during the day it was sick!

A fox attack on a human is unusual but foxes entering houses is not, they are losing their fear of humans and that's not good for us or them. A fox is wild and aggressive animal and should be treated as such. They should be discouraged from domestic dwellings.

I agree 100% on the dogs comment though; we have a major problem with jobs, specifically these bull terrier crosses that seems to be so popular with the Kyle generation.

[roversmum]

I'm not really sure LeChuck - I certainly don't automatically agree with all my party's policies because I am a staunch supporter.

You see, animals do a fairly good job of killing each other in the country - in pretty horrendous ways sometimes, and this certainly applies to animals in other count

Whether a hunt is something to get worked up about I can't decide. It's a country tradition - and those who live in the countryside do their bit to preserve the environment and traditions - foxes are a bit of a pest at the best of times. Personally I wouldn't want to become involved in killing animals in a cruel way, which I suppose some would consider hunting to be.

I don't like seeing animals in poor condition and starving either, and the foxes I've seen in London have not looked good, and if they're going to start attacking people that's very worrying.

[jim mk2]

I was walking down the street one evening recently when a fox happily trotted past me in the other direction. It was obviously out for an evening stroll and seemed perfectly at ease in its urban environment and in the presence of humans but I found what is supposed to be a wild animal walking within 2ft of me disconcerting to say the least. A fox attack on humans is fortunately extremely rare but with the Tories sharpening their knives for a vicious and unnecessary attack on vital public services local authority environmental services are unlikely to be able to tackle what is obviously becoming a growing nuisance. Basil brush is here to stay and we will have to learn to live with him.

[yeti-dog]

Personally Mum,I find it hard to perceive fox-hunting in any other way but "cruel".To embrace the taking of life (and yes,I include animal life in that), by making it a hobbie,jaunt or event is repellent to me I'm afraid.

I also fervently hope that in the best interests of Karma,those who espouse it find they return in their next life and discover how "entertaining" it really is to be chased by a pack of dogs and a bunch of preposterously attired humans on horses until they're exhausted and are then promptly ripped to pieces.

[thenodrog]

eti dog read this..........

<!--quoteo(post=660168:date=Aug 15 2008, 10:21 :name=BiggusLaddus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BiggusLaddus @ Aug 15 2008, 10:21 ) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=660168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But mainly its a class thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's an absolute non issue unless as part of some class struggle by people of lower birth.

Hunts are crap at catching foxes anyway, lamping or poison is far more productive in terms of numbers killed.

Hunting with horses and dogs will not control the vermin that is a fox. Have you ever seen a pack of hounds with a dozen horses in pursuit on the strand or in Trafalgar Square? The banning of fox hunting was always a political issue and not a welfare one. Please get the silly class issue out of your head. Hunts are a complete waste of space other than to allow a few wealthy paople a day out and bring some much needed revenue out from the cities and into the sticks.

Urban foxes are a result of caged hens, cheap food, slovenly people and stringent gun laws.

[beerwins]

Probably more dogs and horses injured on the toffs day out than foxes + the dogs love it, its what they are bred for and its in their nature.

If foxes are to be culled it will have nothing to do with hunting as thenodrog says there are far more efficent ways, my springer (that has died now) and my friends terrier used to come back with all sorts of animals on an early morning walk and none of them were trained to do it its in their nature.

Dont really understand why the whole fox hunting discussion has raised its head again as just as many foxes are still being culled after the ban. What will be next to be banned pheasant shoots? Banning things doesnt stop people it just makes them operate in the dark more and things like this should be organised properly that way we get a more accurate number on animals in the wild.

[roversmum]

Personally Mum,I find it hard to perceive fox-hunting in any other way but "cruel".To embrace the taking of life (and yes,I include animal life in that), by making it a hobbie,jaunt or event is repellent to me I'm afraid.

I also fervently hope that in the best interests of Karma,those who espouse it find they return in their next life and discover how "entertaining" it really is to be chased by a pack of dogs and a bunch of preposterously attired humans on horses until they're exhausted and are then promptly ripped to pieces.

Please tell me if you have explained this to the foxes who rip coops of hens apart for fun. And I don't suppose deer and the like who get ripped apart by lions etc like it much either. It happens in life I'm afraid. Not my taste at all, I have to say.

Jim, dear, could I point out that the tories are not

sharpening their knives for a vicious and unnecessary attack on vital public services

they are trying to sort out the dire state your Labour cronies have left the country in. Necessary you see, ready for them to have a country to govern when they manage to hoodwink the people into voting for them again. I would have thought that you would have noticed by now that it happens on a regular basis. Funny how memory dims with age

[jim mk2]

Please tell me if you have explained this to the foxes who rip coops of hens apart for fun. And I don't suppose deer and the like who get ripped apart by lions etc like it much either. It happens in life I'm afraid. Not my taste at all, I have to say.

Jim, dear, could I point out that the tories are not they are trying to sort out the dire state your Labour cronies have left the country in. Necessary you see, ready for them to have a country to govern when they manage to hoodwink the people into voting for them again. I would have thought that you would have noticed by now that it happens on a regular basis. Funny how memory dims with age

Wrong thread and wrong on every count Mum, dear. The public finances have been wrecked by the Labour government having to bail out the greed of big business. My memory is fine thank you and remembers clearly living in appalling Tory Britain in the 1980s and the destruction the Conservatives wreaked on the north of England. I'll leave at that this time.

Back to the foxes.

[yeti-dog]

Please tell me if you have explained this to the foxes who rip coops of hens apart for fun. And I don't suppose deer and the like who get ripped apart by lions etc like it much either. It happens in life I'm afraid. Not my taste at all, I have to say.

Jim, dear, could I point out that the tories are not they are trying to sort out the dire state your Labour cronies have left the country in. Necessary you see, ready for them to have a country to govern when they manage to hoodwink the people into voting for them again. I would have thought that you would have noticed by now that it happens on a regular basis. Funny how memory dims with age

Sorry Mum,I think you're analogy is flawed.Foxes,lions etc I would say aren't blessed with rational thought or the capacity to understand the concept of "fun".We are,although looking at some of the appalling behaviour perpretrated by humankind I don't believe we're in any position to decide what constitutes 'vermin'.

[tony gale's mic]

Please tell me if you have explained this to the foxes who rip coops of hens apart for fun. And I don't suppose deer and the like who get ripped apart by lions etc like it much either. It happens in life I'm afraid. Not my taste at all, I have to say.

Surely the whole point of being human is that we are more civilised than the rest of the animal kingdom.

[ABBEY]

Surely the whole point of being human is that we are more civilised than the rest of the animal kingdom.

aye you would never see a cumbrian fox shoot 12 fellow cumbrian foxes would you?

[Flopsy]

im sure they would if they could work out how to get the paws through the trigger guard.

Im having difficulty to work out how a fox goes into a house up to a bedroom then attacks two babies in cots.

something doesnt seem quite right, but im a cynical suspicious bugger

[broadsword]

Considering that the Mum was downstairs at the time, it does seem odd.

[colin]

Hopefully this will shed a bit of light rather than heat on the subject

here

Let's face it, anyone called Terry Nutkin can't be wrong

[Neil Weaver]

Considering that the Mum was downstairs at the time, it does seem odd.

Nah, perfectly reasonable to see how this happened. There was an evil Tory downstairs distracting the underpriveleged socialist mum. The fox was had teamed up with the nasty Tory, it was all part of a cunning coalition. Makes perfect sense you see. Stands to reason doesn't it Jim?

[thenodrog]

......... A fox attack on humans is fortunately extremely rare but with the Tories sharpening their knives for a vicious and unnecessary attack on vital public services local authority environmental services are unlikely to be able to tackle what is obviously becoming a growing nuisance.

Jim your lot lost. They spewed it when they appointed that incompetent and evil bstard in the first place.

Get over it and stop crying fox.

[roversmum]

some interesting info about hunting

I would initially have said the best way to cull foxes is to shoot them - but could we really be sure that they are not simply injured and live in pain for an amount of time before dying. I am totally against traps and poisoning and I have no wish to cause pain to any living creature.

I still think the real issue is whether those who claim they are against fox hunting really need to look at themselves and think whether they are simply against hunting because they assume that those who take part in hunts are financially better off than they are - or they have simply believed the rhetoric of the Left about 'class'.

[LeChuck]

I still think the real issue is whether those who claim they are against fox hunting really need to look at themselves and think whether they are simply against hunting because they assume that those who take part in hunts are financially better off than they are - or they have simply believed the rhetoric of the Left about 'class'.

As far as I'm aware, you seem to be more taken with this idea of 'class' than anyone. Your last post included a comment about class when none of the ones before it had done, and so does the post I've quoted.

I oppose fox hunting from the upper/middle classes as much as I do dog fighting in the working classes. Maybe I have it in for the working classes too?

I find it rather insulting, and I assume others do too, that you think people would piggyback on opposing animal cruelty to have a dig at the upper/middle classes.

Edit: By the way, how can I take an article from the 'Masters of Foxhounds Association' as unbiased?