[Archived] Nicko's Thread

[Veevs]

I think for those who where asking about Joaquin.. it has to be dead in the water..

Real Madrid are keen on him after losing out on Cazrola (who signed a new contract).. plus we have not been linked since our supposed 9.5m bid on the 19th..

obviously Real Madrid don't blame the poor lad for his form last season.. Which according to Valencia fans he was one of the best players in their side.

Shame we did not push that one through, but hey it was a little bit of a risk (worth taking IMO).. and a hell of allot of money..

I would now see us landing Ireland or Pennant.. MH has now just landed Zab and SWP who are both right sided players (the role that Ireland played, although Zab can also play defense)...

So I would not be suprised if the Money for those two partly comes from us (Ireland) and the spuds (Corluka)

Pennant, will pobably be used to help fund the Riera move.. although Riera is left wing <shrug> Beni does like playing guys out of position

[CrazyIvan]

Who?

At one time there were indeed many quality players in the lower leagues, but not now. Occassionally a youngster will come through, - ala Aaron Ramsey at Cardiff - but they quickly get swallowed up by the top clubs for top money.

If Ince is seriously suggesting that he can go into the lower leagues as a matter of policy and keep rovers in the Premier league, then that is the most worrying comment I've read from him yet. He has NO chance of that working out.

I don't believe the scouting network is that good that it pics up all the decent players in the lower leagues. It never did in the past and I don't think it does now. To say there are no quality players in the lower leagues is blinkered beyond belief! I'll point you in the direction of Crewe and their recent history of producing top talent. Where do you think Dean Ashton came from?

[imy9]

Aaron Ramsey

Theo Walcott

Tom Huddlestone

Aaron Lennon

Gareth Bale

To name but 5 international players who were signed by clubs outside the top flight, add to the list,

Kightly, Ledley, Wayne Hennessey, Dan Gosling (now at Everton) and Chris Gunter (Spurs)

there are plenty of players out there but they need to be given a chance, how do you know unless they test themselves with better players?

[tonyoz]

If Ince is seriously suggesting that he can go into the lower leagues as a matter of policy and keep rovers in the Premier league, then that is the most worrying comment I've read from him yet. He has NO chance of that working out.

But he didn't suggest that did he? You made the choice to put a negative interpretation on his statement.

[sparkspakespoke]

Because they rate Jansen higher?

Btw what do you think of Keith Andrews because back at the time Atouba was at Spurs he was getting peddled from Wolves for being absolutely useless.

I take it you're hoping he's improved since then.

Not trying to start an argument..... but my point was that in 2005 Warnock never played so its not correct to say he was useless. Atouba did play in 2005 and was useless and by all accounts. From what I hear he's been useless at Hamburg as well. He fell out with the fans, they appluaded when he was substituted and they seem pretty pleased he is going. Thats nothing like Warnock, most Liverpool fans I chat do were annoyed he left as they didnt feel he wa given a fair chance and in retrospect that has been proved right.

Of course I'm hoping Andrews has improved, however he had a stonking season and was named league 2 player of the year. Our manager has seen him up close for a whole season and knows his game inside out so I would say that this is also very different to Atouba.

[tony gale's mic]

Aaron Ramsey

Theo Walcott

Tom Huddlestone

Aaron Lennon

Gareth Bale

To name but 5 international players who were signed by clubs outside the top flight, add to the list,

Kightly, Ledley, Wayne Hennessey, Dan Gosling (now at Everton) and Chris Gunter (Spurs)

there are plenty of players out there but they need to be given a chance, how do you know unless they test themselves with better players?

They were all exciting young players, I think our gripe is with signing 28 year old journeymen like Andrews. And they still didnt form the basis of their clubs transfer policies.

[they_think_its_all_rover]

Aaron Ramsey

Theo Walcott

Tom Huddlestone

Aaron Lennon

Gareth Bale

To name but 5 international players who were signed by clubs outside the top flight, add to the list,

Kightly, Ledley, Wayne Hennessey, Dan Gosling (now at Everton) and Chris Gunter (Spurs)

there are plenty of players out there but they need to be given a chance, how do you know unless they test themselves with better players?

There are quite a lot out there, I just don't think people take as much notice of the lower leagues.

I didn't see Saturday's game, but was told Michael Turner (who I tipped in the match preview as a future England international) got the Man of the Match award... he was bought by Hull City from Brentford a couple of years ago.

Kenwyne Jones is a good example of recent lower league to Prem players.

[joey_big_nose]

I am a Newcastle fan but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making.

Now I haven't seen Atouba much for Hamburg but apparently he's been playing well for them, so there's a good chance he's improved since he was at Spurs 3 years ago.

Similar to how Liverpool have gone for Riera who was poor at Man City as someone else pointed out.

Not like I like sticking up for Newcastle fans but there are plenty of players out there who recovered or found form after being rubbish:

Forlan

Santa Cruz

Brett Emerton

Bellamy

Heskey etc. etc etc.

Players are not just "good" or "bad". It's their confidence, fitness and how they are used as well.

Problem for you Baggio is the general trend is for whoever turns up at Newcastle usually becomes substantially worse than when they arrived!

[den]

But he didn't suggest that did he? You made the choice to put a negative interpretation on his statement.

That's why I said IF.

Nothing negative about it. IF he believes that he can get by with players from the lower leagues, as a matter of policy, he wont last long.

That's what I said.

Aaron Ramsey

Theo Walcott

Tom Huddlestone

Aaron Lennon

Gareth Bale

To name but 5 international players who were signed by clubs outside the top flight.

Glad you agree with me then.

[imy9]

The point is that there are players in their mid to late 20's who could do an excellent job for a premier league club, for example:

Michael Mifsud,

David Norris

Wes Hoolahan

are but three players who are in the lower leagues who have the potential to be successful players in the premier league, the problem is that no one is willing to give them a chance, a shame really.

I am confused as to what we have agreed on?

If Ince signed the players that I have mentioned we would not struggle in the premier league, they are internationals from lower leagues.

[sparkspakespoke]

Not like I like sticking up for Newcastle fans but there are plenty of players out there who recovered or found form after being rubbish:

Forlan

Santa Cruz

Brett Emerton

Bellamy

Heskey etc. etc etc.

Players are not just "good" or "bad". It's their confidence, fitness and how they are used as well.

Problem for you Baggio is the general trend is for whoever turns up at Newcastle usually becomes substantially worse than when they arrived!

I understand your point but I do think when a player plays consistantly badly for more than one club over a good number of years there comes a point when you have to admit they are bad. Atouba in my opinion is not good enough.

[tony gale's mic]

The point is that there are players in their mid to late 20's who could do an excellent job for a premier league club, for example:

Michael Mifsud,

David Norris

Wes Hoolahan

are but three players who are in the lower leagues who have the potential to be successful players in the premier league, the problem is that no one is willing to give them a chance, a shame really.

Maybe they've been scouted and decided they'd be not much good?

The same Mifsud whose scoring record for Coventry reads 14 in 60 games?

And Hoolahan only left the Irish leagues two years ago, and only entered the English Leagues last year. He's had one good season in the Championship but you can hardly blame clubs for not biting Blackpool's hands off for one good Championship season, let's see how he does for Norwich this season.

Plenty of young exciting quality gets signed from the lower leagues (Spurs fans should know this) and plenty of dross gets signed aswell (we should know this well enough), so I disagree that people aren't willing to give them a chance.

[den]

The point is that there are players in their mid to late 20's who could do an excellent job for a premier league club, for example:

Michael Mifsud,

David Norris

Wes Hoolahan

are but three players who are in the lower leagues who have the potential to be successful players in the premier league, the problem is that no one is willing to give them a chance, a shame really.

I am confused as to what we have agreed on?

If Ince signed the players that I have mentioned we would not struggle in the premier league, they are internationals from lower leagues.

Thought you would be.

You picked out what, - 5 players from the lower leagues who made it to the Prem?

That's 5 players from the whole of the squads, from all the teams in leagues Ch, 1 and 2. Those 5 or 6 players you mentioned were picked up by the bigger clubs, for quite a lot of money I guess.

There aren't many bargains down there.

[Al]

There's no point in quoting youngsters. There will always be young players picked up from the lower leagues. These lads were always going to make it.

Den is absolutely correct. If you sign lower league standard players thats where you will end up. Den knows his football and you won't go far wrong if you listen to what he says.

[imy9]

Maybe they've been scouted and decided they'd be not much good?

The same Mifsud whose scoring record for Coventry reads 14 in 60 games?

And Hoolahan only left the Irish leagues two years ago, and only entered the English Leagues last year. He's had one good season in the Championship but you can hardly blame clubs for not biting Blackpool's hands off for one good Championship season, let's see how he does for Norwich this season.

Plenty of young exciting quality gets signed from the lower leagues (Spurs fans should know this) and plenty of dross gets signed aswell (we should know this well enough), so I disagree that people aren't willing to give them a chance.

We have signed Stead, Neill, Reid and Derbyshire off the top of my head, each one was a success, cant think of any lower league players that have been "dross" for Rovers, I may be wrong!

Issue is that "big" clubs like Spurs will pay a couple of million for youth but not many are willing to give players aged 25-30 a chance, I dont think it is a matter of if they are good enough, I think it is a case of clubs unwilling to spend millions on lower league players.

Thought you would be.

You picked out what, - 5 players from the lower leagues who made it to the Prem?

That's 5 players from the whole of the squads, from all the teams in leagues Ch, 1 and 2. Those 5 or 6 players you mentioned were picked up by the bigger clubs, for quite a lot of money I guess.

There aren't many bargains down there.

Can you name players that have been purchased from lower league clubs by premier league clubs and they were not a success?

As stated in my last post, Reid, Neill, Derbyshire, Stead were all signed from lower leagues and they easily made the step up.

[Head Rover Heels]

I think it is a case of clubs unwilling to spend millions on lower league players.

May be something to do with the reaction that such a signing gets from the fans

However, they'll be quite happy spending millions on a player from an inferior league abroad, that turns out to be an inspired disaster.

[Tom 1]

If your asking about a bargain that came from the lower leagues, surely Lescott to Everton from Wolves was one of the best deals in recent years. He wasn't expensive at all.

As for Joaquin, I don't think he was ever coming to Blackburn, fee agreed or not.

[imy9]

Anyhow back to the thread...

Rovers have rejected a £4 million pound bid for Warnock, I really hope he stays.

[Veevs]

Not like I like sticking up for Newcastle fans but there are plenty of players out there who recovered or found form after being rubbish:

Forlan

Santa Cruz

Brett Emerton

Bellamy

Heskey etc. etc etc.

Players are not just "good" or "bad". It's their confidence, fitness and how they are used as well.

Problem for you Baggio is the general trend is for whoever turns up at Newcastle usually becomes substantially worse than when they arrived!

My favourite is Bid brad friedel.. Liv reserve, poor form.. followed by hero worship and consistency to the highest level

[tony gale's mic]

We have signed Stead, Neill, Reid and Derbyshire off the top of my head, each one was a success, cant think of any lower league players that have been "dross" for Rovers, I may be wrong!

Issue is that "big" clubs like Spurs will pay a couple of million for youth but not many are willing to give players aged 25-30 a chance, I dont think it is a matter of if they are good enough, I think it is a case of clubs unwilling to spend millions on lower league players.

I was thinking more in the past along the lines of Ward, Blake etc..together with ones like Kuqi. We got lucky with Stead, he was a poor player which has been proven since but he hit the form of his life for us.

There's a reason why not many are willing to give players 25-30 a chance...if they've been playing at that low level for much of their careers its very hard for them to make such a step up after so long in their careers. Don't try and paint the signing of Andrews as some brilliant trailblazing move as it really, really isn't. The signing of Bunn on the other hand I can support, he's younger and goalkeepers peak later.

[Baggio]

A Norweigan Newcastle fan posted this on our forum...

Skjelbred is now refusing to say he'll still be at Rosenborg after the weekend when asked by the local paper Adresseavisen. They also say Paul Ince and Blackburn are now drooling over the player after Morten Gamst Pedersen have been praising him sky high to him (Ince) in recent days and that scouts/representatives/whatever from Newcastle, Rangers and Derby were all present at Lerkendal yesterday as well as Blackburn.

[Sandiway Blue]

2 players that immediately spring to mind of players in their mid-late 20`s doing well in the prem from lower leagues were Kevin Phillips and Marcus Stewart.Both were the wrong side of 25 before their first taste of top flight footy.

Anyway staying on topic Nicko,do you think Ince was given a choice between Fowler and Andrews from the boards point of view?

[CrazyIvan]

There aren't many bargains down there.

The point is there are some!

[blue/white]

My favourite is Bid brad friedel.. Liv reserve, poor form.. followed by hero worship and consistency to the highest level

followed by controversial transfer to Villa and eventual petering out of skillset.

[nicko]

Mark Hughes on Man City's need for money:

"It is well documented we are looking to bring in more finance.

"If we want to take Manchester City to the next level we need a significant amount of money. Millionaires do not have enough. You need billionaires. That is the way of the world.

"Dr Thaksin knows some very wealthy guys. If anyone can bring it into the club it will certainly be him."

So, in other words, they need cash...fast.