[Archived] Fans Forum (2/09/08)

[DingleBaiter]

I think I was pretty clear in stating that if the prayer room was there next season I wont be buying a season ticket - close it down and I will continue with my financial support.

The point you seem to be missing is there ALREADY was a prayer room at the club, before the MFR was launched this season. Why have you not had this stance previously then?

The MFR is/has moved has it not? So if it's out of sight, out of mind, i.e. elsewhere in the ground you'd still jack it all in? Why not jack it now, if you feel so strongly about it - save some money...

I admire your crusade, if only for the strength of your convictions, but it's going to fall on deaf ears surely. I'll bet you've not taken this up with the club beforehand though, instead rely on them to come to you?

[thenodrog]

As for the comments alluding to my views on religion concerning this topic .... can you not see that as a strength? ... to put aside ones personal views when trying to achieve the greater good?

Certainly, in fact I do exactly that most days. I must be really strong.

[JAL]

At the end of the day on this debate of the multi faith room should we have a campaign to 'kick religion out of football' then nobody can be offended.

[Hughesy]

COMPLETE RUBBISH!

Well for every new season ticket sold there will be 10 losses! Many people, myself included are sick and tired of the priviliges afforded to religion by our so called secular society. Well I will not support any commercial organisation that actively promotes religion. I have decided that after holding a season ticket for 2 decades that this season will the last for me and my son unless the club closes down the prayer room. I will write to the club to explain my decision if I can find the motivation over the coming months. For now if anyone at the club is reading this thread my account number is 16542 - feel free to contact me any time you like.

What a muppet! Your no fan if that is all it takes for you to give up your seat. Goodbye.

[leftfooter]

Asian fans have thus far shown little interest in Rovers. They are happy to walk around the town in Man United and Liverpool shirts, but seem to struggle to find an affinity with Blackburn Rovers. I don't feel that a so-called multi faith room is going to lead to thousands of them rushing to come to Ewood and queuing up for tickets.

I would have more respect for the decision if the club came out and stated it was a prayer room specifically for Moslem employees.

These 'Asian' fans as PC Britain insists we call them, represent just a small corner of the entire Asian continent. It's another example how the British have warped their language and cultural traditions to accommodate 3rd or 4th generation Pakistani and Gujarati Moslems.

Just to put things in perspective, Orthodox Jews are required to pray several times per day and observe a much stricter dietary regime than Moslems. For several hundred years they have done just that in this country in an unobtrusive and respectful manner. Similarly Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Protestant Huguenots, Polish Catholics have enriched the rich tapestry of British life without making specific demands on public utilities nor attacking local traditions.

What must these new arrivals and their descendants feel at the craven pandering of liberal Britain to every complaint and gripe from the Moslem community?

The Messianic credo of Islam separates the world into ‘the Land of War’ and the Land of Islam’. This posits that, eventually the Land of War will submit to the will of Islam either by force or through more strategic subterfuge. By exploiting Western tolerance and an indulgent Government and judiciary, ” ‘soft Jihad’ or ‘Jihad lite’ is the logical manifestation of this global agenda.

Saudi petro dollars (and other Gulf Emirs) have bank rolled Arabic trained mullahs in far away Peshawar madrassas and local Lancastrian mosques to preach the most intolerant and uncompromising form of Wahabhi Islam to a gullible but growing and increasingly assertive local Moslem population.

Consequently a significant minority of British Moslems lack any affinity with Britain and the West per se. So in answer to your point AESF; why would they show any allegiance to parochial old Blackburn Rovers?

Sadly, the removal of shoes edict before entering the multi-faith (sic) room, is another small victory on this march to a worldwide Caliphate.

[thenodrog]

Lot of sense in that post leftfooter.

[Ste B]

Sadly, the removal of shoes edict before entering the multi-faith (sic) room, is another small victory on this march to a worldwide Caliphate.

That just isnt true. That was confirmed at the fans forum meeting that shoes off is not mandatory.

[leftfooter]

QUOTE (Ste B @ Sep 11 2008, 13:22 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just isnt true. That was confirmed at the fans forum meeting that shoes off is not mandatory.

I wasn't aware of this, so if you're correct then I stand corrected.

Still, making rules is one thing; applying them is another. Community support officers in Birmingham recently threatened two Christian evangelical ministers with arrest for handing out Gospel literature in a Moslem neighbourhood of Birmingham.

If there were to be a dispute over such an issue, the club has built a rod for its own back. No prizes for guessing which way it would act, or the (predominately Moslem) stewards if faced with a potential conflagration over such an issue.

The basic premise remains that this facility is pandering to the Moslem community, literally at the expense of the majority of paying supporters. Catering is one thing; pandering is another.

Let's just have some intellectual honesty from the club.

[DingleBaiter]

QUOTE (Ste B @ Sep 11 2008, 14:22 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just isnt true. That was confirmed at the fans forum meeting that shoes off is not mandatory.

Good post left footer; surprised the PC mob haven't jumped on your name as being a religious slight

So, if the 'shoes off' thing wasn't a policy, why were stewards restricting access to those that wouldn't comply - causing a stand-off involving the police etc.? Or is it yet another aspect of lack of planning & policy at Ewood? Who is actually telling the truth?

[leftfooter]

Good post left footer; surprised the PC mob haven't jumped on your name as being a religious slight

So, if the 'shoes off' thing wasn't a policy, why were stewards restricting access to those that wouldn't comply - causing a stand-off involving the police etc.? Or is it yet another aspect of lack of planning & policy at Ewood? Who is actually telling the truth?

Well, what would you expect?

If you invade a Moslem area, start spouting off about Jesus left right and centre and fail to respect the local customs, it will inevitably invoke the chagrin of the locals.

Islam is a peaceable religion you see and if you disagree with it too loudly, you just might end up with your head bidding adieu to your shoulders.

[only2garners]

So, if the 'shoes off' thing wasn't a policy, why were stewards restricting access to those that wouldn't comply - causing a stand-off involving the police etc.? Or is it yet another aspect of lack of planning & policy at Ewood? Who is actually telling the truth?

As Ste says, it was clearly stated at the Forum that there was no "shoes off" policy (and also that there was a range of religious material in there e.g. Bibles and not just the Koran). I wasn't there at the Hull match but might it just be that the stewards were stopping people who had no intention of using the room for prayer and just wanted to make a bit of trouble, i.e. nothing to do with taking shoes off?

[brightonrover]

I'm presuming that since PAPR (Paul Agnew PR?) is a seperate company to the Rovers that the club has effectively outsourced their press office. If this is the case, it's the only club in the country I've come across that doesn't have its own, dedicated press department which is pretty odd for a club operating in the highest profile league in the world.

[67splitscreen]

Clarification on the MFR. I'll keep it short.

Grimsby Match.

I went into the MFR.

The steward was on duty outside on the concourse, not directly at the door into the MFR.

There was no signs or steward on the door entering the MFR requesting the removal of shoes, and I was not asked to do so, by the steward out side, I assume as I could have just been going in to use the toilets in the outer room, that the MFR entrance is in.

From the concourse, the only sign is MFR, yet there were toilets in there.

Inside the MFR.

There was one bible (New World Bible) in View.

There was no other literature in View.

There was a number of prayer mats, six I would guess.

Other than the above the room was completely empty.

So I'm not sure how you could even call this a MFR.

[Damage]

The point you seem to be missing is there ALREADY was a prayer room at the club, before the MFR was launched this season. Why have you not had this stance previously then?

The MFR is/has moved has it not? So if it's out of sight, out of mind, i.e. elsewhere in the ground you'd still jack it all in? Why not jack it now, if you feel so strongly about it - save some money...

I admire your crusade, if only for the strength of your convictions, but it's going to fall on deaf ears surely. I'll bet you've not taken this up with the club beforehand though, instead rely on them to come to you?

The point you seem to be missing is that previous prayer room was intended for employees not the paying public AND the room was intentionally advertised by BRFC. It is this PUBLIC promotion of religion that I am opposed to.

Out of sight may be good enough for you but then again you would have probably been with Chamberlain.

I am not on any crusade (funny choice of word you have made there). I simply wont be spending future money supporting commercial organisation that publicly promotes religion. Perhaps I may have taken this up with the club beforehand if they'd had the foresight to consult their EXISTING customers before embarking on such a disastrous strategy.

[stuwilky]

The point you seem to be missing is that previous prayer room was intended for employees not the paying public AND the room was intentionally advertised by BRFC. It is this PUBLIC promotion of religion that I am opposed to.

Out of sight may be good enough for you but then again you would have probably been with Chamberlain.

I am not on any crusade (funny choice of word you have made there). I simply wont be spending future money supporting commercial organisation that publicly promotes religion. Perhaps I may have taken this up with the club beforehand if they'd had the foresight to consult their EXISTING customers before embarking on such a disastrous strategy.

I cant see religion being PROMOTED anywhere. I can see people's choice to pray or reflect being catered for.

There is a huge difference between promotion of religion and providing a space for anyone to practice it.

But I agree, anyone PROMOTING any religion I would not support that organisation in any way.

[Damage]

What a muppet! Your no fan if that is all it takes for you to give up your seat. Goodbye.

If I am a muppet, what would you call people that would only consider going to watch football if the club panders to their medieval religious mumbo-jumbo?

I won't put my money into any commercial organisation that publicly promotes religion. If that makes me a muppet then so be it.

Rather than bending over backwards in the vain hope of attracting new supporters from a demographic that has never shown much interest in BRFC surely any sensible commercial organisation would look to its existing fans and lapsed fans for future support?

[Damage]

I cant see religion being PROMOTED anywhere. I can see people's choice to pray or reflect being catered for.

There is a huge difference between promotion of religion and providing a space for anyone to practice it.

But I agree, anyone PROMOTING any religion I would not support that organisation in any way.

I don't want to get into some debate about semantics but the prayer room was very publicly advertised by BRFC - witness the comments of both muslim and christian clerics in local newspapers etc. And if you don't think - "providing a space for everyone to practise it" where there was no space previously - is promoting religion then what is it? Facilitation

[stuwilky]

I don't want to get into some debate about semantics but the prayer room was very publicly advertised by BRFC - witness the comments of both muslim and christian clerics in local newspapers etc. And if you don't think - "providing a space for everyone to practise it" where there was no space previously - is promoting religion then what is it? Facilitation

There was a space before by all accounts.

Im not arguing semantics either, Im arguing actuality. There was no promotion of religion. Its a fact.

[Damage]

There was a space before by all accounts.

Im not arguing semantics either, Im arguing actuality. There was no promotion of religion. Its a fact.

The previous space was for employees! This is for use by the paying customers!

I won't go with the "it was here before" spin. I am not on a crusade just won't be going back down ewood next season if the mumbo-jumbo room is still bumbling along.

[stuwilky]

As is your choice.

Just seems like a peculiar decision making process, but it is your decision to make.

[blue phil]

The point you seem to be missing is there ALREADY was a prayer room at the club, before the MFR was launched this season. Why have you not had this stance previously then?

Presumably this prayer room is a relic of bygone times when religion had a more prominent place in our society ( times that certain hypocritical people very vocably argue are best left in the past ....)

Perhaps the club could simply have issued a statement saying that this room is (as it surely always was) open to all members of the community . I'm sure that the "Asians" would not have minded such an arrangement ........not that they or anyone else would have ever set foot in the place !

What people are really pi$$ed off about all this business is the fact -and it is a fact - that the club have been grotesquely pandering and crawling to the Muslim community with all this nonsense that they somehow need their religious sensitivities catering for more than the rest of us , whilst at the same time blatantly lying through their back teeth that this is for the benefit of all the fans .

After all , why do the Christian community need a MFR when we already have a prayer room ?

It's high time for the powers that be down at Ewood realised that the Asian community are not the same as the indigenous community . Their interests (speaking in general terms ) are different from ours ; their culture is different ; their history and traditions are different ; they will gladly come to Ewood (with or without the faith room ) to earn a bit of money but not to spend it . They have other priorities and that's their choice . Isn't it a little racist to try and impose our values over theirs..?

I can only remember one or two occasions when Asians in any significant numbers came to Ewood and that was when the prices were a virtual give away . Not a fact that is PC and liable to be discussed at the Fans Forum meetings ........but a fact nonetheless .

As for Damage's threat to stop going to Ewood ..well , I can well understand it . Real fans are having their allegiances tested all the time with high prices ; greedy , lazy players ; and the endless commercialisation of the game . To attempt to entice Muslims into the ground by highlighting their religious beliefs - beliefs that are , shall I say , held with little affection by large sections of the wider community - is another nail in the coffin .

(......To Ewood Spark - I personally know for a fact that this messageboard is read at the highest levels at Ewood . I would always , unlike yourself , keep my views consistent regardless who I was talking to . Don't kid yourself that you have some hidden "strength" of character because you alter your views when you log off and talk face to face ....

[rovers_rob]

As for Damage's threat to stop going to Ewood ..well , I can well understand it . Real fans are having their allegiances tested all the time with high prices ; greedy , lazy players ; and the endless commercialisation of the game . To attempt to entice Muslims into the ground by highlighting their religious beliefs - beliefs that are , shall I say , held with little affection by large sections of the wider community - is another nail in the coffin .

I have looked on this thread to see what has been said in the fans forum meeting and yet again I am reading utter negative crap about fans not supporting the club because of what they have done.

Are BRFC that bad ?

So they have set up a faith room, so what ? they are trying everything to get more fans in. Is that such a crime ?

Do you really care who comes to support rovers ? does it really matter what country, religious beliefs people have ? I don't care who comes to ewood as long as they are supporting the team on the pitch.

Isn't that the whole point of the football club or have i completely missed the point here ?

[blue phil]

Yes , you've completely missed the point .

[Faz_Rover]

Presumably this prayer room is a relic of bygone times when religion had a more prominent place in our society ( times that certain hypocritical people very vocably argue are best left in the past ....)

Perhaps the club could simply have issued a statement saying that this room is (as it surely always was) open to all members of the community . I'm sure that the "Asians" would not have minded such an arrangement ........not that they or anyone else would have ever set foot in the place !

What people are really pi$$ed off about all this business is the fact -and it is a fact - that the club have been grotesquely pandering and crawling to the Muslim community with all this nonsense that they somehow need their religious sensitivities catering for more than the rest of us , whilst at the same time blatantly lying through their back teeth that this is for the benefit of all the fans .

After all , why do the Christian community need a MFR when we already have a prayer room ?

It's high time for the powers that be down at Ewood realised that the Asian community are not the same as the indigenous community . Their interests (speaking in general terms ) are different from ours ; their culture is different ; their history and traditions are different ; they will gladly come to Ewood (with or without the faith room ) to earn a bit of money but not to spend it . They have other priorities and that's their choice . Isn't it a little racist to try and impose our values over theirs..?

I can only remember one or two occasions when Asians in any significant numbers came to Ewood and that was when the prices were a virtual give away . Not a fact that is PC and liable to be discussed at the Fans Forum meetings ........but a fact nonetheless .

As for Damage's threat to stop going to Ewood ..well , I can well understand it . Real fans are having their allegiances tested all the time with high prices ; greedy , lazy players ; and the endless commercialisation of the game . To attempt to entice Muslims into the ground by highlighting their religious beliefs - beliefs that are , shall I say , held with little affection by large sections of the wider community - is another nail in the coffin .

(......To Ewood Spark - I personally know for a fact that this messageboard is read at the highest levels at Ewood . I would always , unlike yourself , keep my views consistent regardless who I was talking to . Don't kid yourself that you have some hidden "strength" of character because you alter your views when you log off and talk face to face ....

What a load of rubbish you just wrote their BP. Your just against Muslims and Asians. From that post your trying to imply that Asians don't come to Ewood if the tickets are expensive? Wake up fella!

Most Asians fans are following the likes of United and Liverpool in this town. That is one of the main reasons we don't get many of them through the gates. Not because prices are too expensive!

Just for the record, It was a Muslim that provided funds for this MFR NOT Rovers. Finally, there are more Muslims in Blackburn, than any other religion besides Christianity. For the record they pray 5 times a day, and Yes they will need to use it. The fact that the location is not ideal does not mean that the idea is rubbish.

Like a previous poster said earlier (I think it was Hughesy) as long as it gets a few more people through the doors then do you really care? Your not going to use it are you? You say a toilet has been removed, I'm sure your a big boy now and can hold it in for a few minutes longer? If not, I hear Pampers are the best ones going right now, Offer at Tescos aswell

[BuckyRover]

I have looked on this thread to see what has been said in the fans forum meeting and yet again I am reading utter negative crap about fans not supporting the club because of what they have done.

Are BRFC that bad ?

So they have set up a faith room, so what ? they are trying everything to get more fans in. Is that such a crime ?

Do you really care who comes to support rovers ? does it really matter what country, religious beliefs people have ? I don't care who comes to ewood as long as they are supporting the team on the pitch.

Isn't that the whole point of the football club or have i completely missed the point here ?

I think you have missed the point.

The point is blue_phil does not like Islam and does not want to see any reference to it when he goes to the football.

I think that's the point