[Archived] Fans Forum (2/09/08)

[blue phil]

No of course it isn't. Peersonally I couldn't care less if we have an MFR or not, and no I don't go in the BBE but if we have one in the JW that's OK with me.

The sad aspect is it gives people with an agenda the opportunity to have another pop at the Muslim community. Supporting discrimination and subjugation of women. What a load of rubbish. Yes we all know the Muslim faith treats women badly, I agree, it's completely wrong but to suggest those who support the MFR are by definition supporting subjugation and discrimination against women is taking logical thinking to the extreme and is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on here.....on any subject.

So it's all very simple then .

Anyone who disagrees with the idea of the MFR has an agenda .

Whilst those who support it don't ......

To those who do support the MFR I would like to ask where would they draw the line ? Would they accept a section of the ground for Asians only ? Would they accept a section for Muslim women only in order that they wouldn't have to be leered at by the male infidels ? Would they accept a policy of cheaper tickets for the Muslim community ? Would they accept moving fixtures so they don't clash with Islamic holy days or festivals ? I could give more examples......

Now these are serious questions in the light of the fact that any such initiatives would in all likelihood increase Asian attendances . Isn't that the bottom line after all ?

...and before the usual suspects start whining that I am becoming a little paranoid perhaps they might consider their reaction if I had suggested a year or so ago that the Rovers would give up a toilet block in the Blackburn End and turn it into an Islamic ....sorry Multi Faith ....Room .

[Ste B]

You have to have a copy of socialist worker and know the special handshake.

Or send only2garners a pm and he'll sort you out.

[Faz_Rover]

So it's all very simple then .

Anyone who disagrees with the idea of the MFR has an agenda .

Whilst those who support it don't ......

To those who do support the MFR I would like to ask where would they draw the line ? Would they accept a section of the ground for Asians only ? Would they accept a section for Muslim women only in order that they wouldn't have to be leered at by the male infidels ? Would they accept a policy of cheaper tickets for the Muslim community ? Would they accept moving fixtures so they don't clash with Islamic holy days or festivals ? I could give more examples......

Now these are serious questions in the light of the fact that any such initiatives would in all likelihood increase Asian attendances . Isn't that the bottom line after all ?

...and before the usual suspects start whining that I am becoming a little paranoid perhaps they might consider their reaction if I had suggested a year or so ago that the Rovers would give up a toilet block in the Blackburn End and turn it into an Islamic ....sorry Multi Faith ....Room .

Why so prejudice against Islam and Muslims?

Clearly, you have something against them. FFS its a Multi-Faith Room. If you want to go inside and pray then by all means go. Stop with the constant rubbish about your laws and whatever. It's a bit tiring you coming out constantly having a go at Muslims/Asians/Islam. I find that very offensive you having a go at them for no particular reason. It's not as if a Mosque is built inside Ewood is it? Its open for whoever would want to use it. Your reaction to this is ridiculous, and the mere point of your arguement is one toilet block being removed. For crying out loud, 5 minutes longer and you'll get your turn, what is the point in having a swipe at a certain religion when you have no concrete evidence that "Muslims/Asians" we're the ones behind making a MFR. It was a decision by Blackburn Rovers, that has also improved our image of the club, outside the town and also in the media (Article in The Sun/Daily Mail).

[mhead]

First the hysteria about the Multi Faith Room(clumsy planning but its intended message SURELY supported?) and the constant anti-Ince attitude by some of the staunchest BRFCS members. Can there be any connection or link by ANY chance.

Sad since in this increasing multi-cultural society it probably means that BR cannot support a Premier League team and will sink long-term to the level of the Dingles or even Stanley.

Please wake up and smell the coffee(non-alcohol as well)

[blue phil]

Why so prejudice against Islam and Muslims?

As I explained in my previous post my concerns are that this might not necessarily be the end of such issues but rather the beginning . My arguments are primarily concerned with the the decision makers at Ewood ...none of whom are Muslims to my knowledge .

If you'd care to add your comments in a more considered manner I'll gladly take them more seriously .

Where would you draw the line by the way ....? Are you capable of answering that question without the usual tedious and predictable implications of racism ? If not don't waste my time .........

First the hysteria about the Multi Faith Room(clumsy planning but its intended message SURELY supported?) and the constant anti-Ince attitude by some of the staunchest BRFCS members. Can there be any connection or link by ANY chance.

If you'd care to glance at the relevant threads you might see that I am about the most vocal supporter of Ince and have been ever since his appointment .

Any more mud to sling ....?

[Tris]

It's a shame the debate is getting pulled in two directions.

For me it's all about the location. If the MF room had been put at the back of the Riverside, it wouldn't even have got on the agenda at the FF, never mind see half a dozen topics (most closed) and hundreds of posts on here.

The issue is the N01 toilets which have gone from a sensible size for the busiest area of the stadium - complete with one-way system with an entrance and an exit - to little more than a chaotic cupboard.

That's the issue that needs to be resolved, and resolving it doesn't need yet another debate on the ethnic mix of Blackburn (or religion).

[thenodrog]

Wait wait, did I read that proper. Mods have a sense of humour

I'd better point out that SteB's 'Admin' so he doesn't count faz. So therefore your own original opinion must by definition still be valid.

Now you're in for it matey!

[thenodrog]

That's the issue that needs to be resolved, and resolving it doesn't need yet another debate on the ethnic mix of Blackburn (or religion).

It is a bit difficult to avoid Tris given that the sole reason for it's existence is religion.

[CrazyIvan]

It is a bit difficult to avoid Tris given that the sole reason for it's existence is religion.

I think this thread proves the majority of fans don't care about it's existence, just it's location.

[Tris]

It is a bit difficult to avoid Tris given that the sole reason for it's existence is religion.

But if it existed somewhere else, and the Gents in N01 were still fit for purpose, then 95% of the people who are so annoyed about the thing wouldn't give a monkeys.

[Paul]

So it's all very simple then .

Anyone who disagrees with the idea of the MFR has an agenda .

Whilst those who support it don't ......

I am neither for nor against the MFR. I just don't care if we have one or not and don't have an agenda over it. Where I do have an "agenda" (actually I just object to people being categorised according to their ethnicity) is when people suggest that supporters of the MFR must by definition also support the subjugation and discrimination of women. It's the most ridiculous comment and as I said takes logical thinking to a new extreme. I would have thought this was obvious to anyone.

To those who do support the MFR I would like to ask where would they draw the line ? Would they accept a section of the ground for Asians only ? Would they accept a section for Muslim women only in order that they wouldn't have to be leered at by the male infidels ? Would they accept a policy of cheaper tickets for the Muslim community ? Would they accept moving fixtures so they don't clash with Islamic holy days or festivals ? I could give more examples......

Yes I would object to all of those policies. Just as I would object to any policy that fail to treat individuals as equals.

[Faz_Rover]

As I explained in my previous post my concerns are that this might not necessarily be the end of such issues but rather the beginning . My arguments are primarily concerned with the the decision makers at Ewood ...none of whom are Muslims to my knowledge .

If you'd care to add your comments in a more considered manner I'll gladly take them more seriously .

Where would you draw the line by the way ....? Are you capable of answering that question without the usual tedious and predictable implications of racism ? If not don't waste my time .........

So you actually think Blackburn Rovers are to change fixtures, provide separate parts of the grounds for "Asians/Muslims" only. FFS wake up, A MFR has improved the image of the club outside of the town. Wouldn't you say that is a good thing? Secondly, if this room means 5/10 more fans coming through them turnstiles then I would gather the room to be a success. We all know it's not in the best of locations, and that is the argument from all members, other than you (and a few others). Generally, everyone agrees on the fact if it was in another location, none of this would have been a problem. However, for you to come out and pretty much "blame" and criticise Rovers of "favouring" the Muslim community, then you're bang out of order. It's called having respect for other religions and Rovers have made a terrific gesture by opening a MFR. Ever considered that "muslims" have to wait ages in the line for their half time Pies? Maybe because some of the concourses only sell beer, why don't you argue against that? Let me think maybe because that doesn't affect you? Have some thought for other religions.

[Debs]

Tom Finn stated they had taken advice from a firm in Preston who had put in a similar facility at other locations. Reading between the lines it sounds like the club have been badly advised in my opinion.

I can't believe that a usually well run club like Rovers, would take advice from a firm in Preston about the location of the MFR, but not from its own fans forum!

Myself and the kids I take won't be venturing down to the concourse this afternoon to part with our money on refreshments. In that way, we'll be sure not to exposed to ignorant racists venting their frustration. I just hope that they either move it to somewhere more suitable soon or the idiots get over it quickly, otherwise it will ruin the whole match day expereince for me.

[leftfooter]

No of course it isn't. Peersonally I couldn't care less if we have an MFR or not, and no I don't go in the BBE but if we have one in the JW that's OK with me.

The sad aspect is it gives people with an agenda the opportunity to have another pop at the Muslim community. Supporting discrimination and subjugation of women. What a load of rubbish. Yes we all know the Muslim faith treats women badly, I agree, it's completely wrong but to suggest those who support the MFR are by definition supporting subjugation and discrimination against women is taking logical thinking to the extreme and is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on here.....on any subject.

Whilst not for the first time, perhaps being guilty of overstating his case, and painful for me as this is, I must leap to the defence of Thenodrog on this issue.

Many people who read this message board would have left the Blackburn because , (amongst other reasons), in many parts, it has ceased to resemble England anymore. Most have put Blackburn behind them and moved on with their lives.

This is not an option however regarding Blackburn Rovers.

Ewood Park symbolises a sort of Camelot. A sanctuary from where we set out annually on our quest for our spiritual and tangible Holy Grail. The establishment of what is basically a Mosque, paid for by a Moslem businessman (if stories are true), represents to many, the spear in the side of the very traditions and bonds many of us carry for the club. With this defenestration of our local and national traditions, a whole world of nobility is slowly coming to grief; the lion and the unicorn have already fled.

Paul, it is one thing to tolerate a bestial, stone-age idolatory, which in it's more enlightened moments only insists that dressing women from top to toe in sacks is de riguer. It is quite another thing entirely for a sort of Allah-lite version of this edict to be institutionalised within the very walls upon which the club is built.

Just to put things in to context, it was recently decided by bureaucratic fiat to rebuild half of the toilets in the prison system (where most Moslem conversions in this country are performed) just to ensure that pious crappers would not be facing Mecca while sitting (that could be a typo) on them. The march of the cultural relatavists and appeasers is proceeding apace and has now breached the walls of the Ewood citadel.

You cannot expect everyone to smile indulgently and pretend that this is evidence of “tolerance” and “ diversity”, no matter how superior or enlightened that this makes you feel Paul. Is it tolerance to tolerate the intolerant strictures of a virulently reactionary and absolutist philosophical doctrine? If that's your idea of equality go Read Mohammed’s hadiths, Paul.

Naturally I wouldn't expect my views to go down too well with our local imams, should they be able to read English of course, but let's look at the strictures that the club is effectively endorsing: sermons of hate against women, homosexuals, Moslem converts to other faiths, adulterers, anti- Semitic and misogynistic messages of hate against other faiths. We have enough of that already from many of the regulars in the Blackburn End (hence my refusal to sit amongst them), so why should the club be encouraging more of the same?????

Ewood Spark: "The subject of providing a facility for a minority of potential supporters with the intention of knocking down another barrier to their possible attendance":

You're premise comes from a good place, and I fully appreciate where you are coming from ES. A club that kowtows to a backward looking minority constituency however, does far more damage than good to the social cohesion of the community, which it is supposed to represent. Paul's self-flagellating liberal pieties notwithstanding, the glue that holds us all together is weakened by this craven pandering to a disinterested and even hostile presence. What really causes barriers and divisions is the latitude afforded to the disciples of an intolerant creed, and the continual placating of minorities — no matter how abhorrent their religious views are to the rest of us.

Faz Rover: "Why so prejudice against Islam and Muslims?"

Certainly not against Muslims per se, but in respect of Islam; where shall I start? Islam wishes to conquer the world, it is illiberal, arrogant and authoritarian and hell bent on destroying the rest of us; the ideology promotes hatred and division. This would not be an issue if the local 'Asian' community came from Thailand, Burma, Siberia, most of Indonesia (which is nominally Moslem) or any other part of Asia, from Mongolia to Maharashtra. We are talking about a particular rump of Moslems from an economically failed, culturally primitive and barbaric corner of but one part of the Asian continent. It is becoming even more conservative in its values and ever more strident in its demands. It was our misfortune that they chose to come here.

Faz Rover: "It's open for whoever would want to use it. Your reaction to this is ridiculous"

We all know it will eventually become a de facto mosque.

"It was a decision by Blackburn Rovers that has also improved our image of the club, outside the town and also in the media (Article in The Sun/Daily Mail)"

Why the Hyacinth Bucket type fixation with keeping up appearances?

Paul: "I just object to people being categorised according to their ethnicity":

So; just by raising questions regarding the enforcement of such an uncompromising maxim within, or alongside Western culture; ergo, you must have a racist agenda against all non-whites… uugh! You're now using the same lowest common denominator argument advanced by the most unreconstructed Mohammedans and their apologists in the BBC and the liberal media. Any legitimate challenge to their absurd absolutist beliefs and their desire to inflict it on the rest of us is deflected by smear and cries of "raaaaaceeeeest!"

Now that Paul, "is taking logical thinking to the extreme and is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on here….on any subject"

[den]

Can't we call it a day on this thread. I don't want to read more of the above, thank you.

[MCMC1875]

Can't imagine Jack Walker sanctioning this!

[leftfooter]

Can't we call it a day on this thread. I don't want to read more of the above, thank you.

Which part is inaccurate?

Which part of the argument would you care to challenge or take issue with Den?

You disagree, can't offer a cogent response as usual, so revert to default mechanism and go bleating to the mods to close the debate. Don't forget your anorak on the way out lad.

[mikeyliu]

Many people have left the Blackburn because it has ceased to resemble England anymore.

This is not an option

Ewood Park symbolises A sanctuary on our quest for our spiritual and tangible Holy Grail.

The establishment of a Mosque, paid for by a Moslem represents the spear in the side of the very traditions and bonds many of us carry

With this defenestration of our local and national traditions, a whole world of nobility is slowly coming to grief;

the lion and the unicorn have already fled.

a bestial, stone-age idolatory, which in it's more enlightened moments only insists that dressing women from top to toe in sacks is de riguer.

the prison system (where most Moslem conversions in this country are performed)

pious crappers

The march of the cultural relatavists and appeasers is proceeding apace and has now breached the walls of the Ewood citadel.

You cannot expect everyone to smile indulgently and pretend that this is evidence of “tolerance” and “ diversity”,

Is it tolerance to tolerate the intolerant strictures of a virulently reactionary and absolutist philosophical doctrine?

I wouldn't expect my views to go down too well with our local imams, should they be able to read English of course,

the club is effectively endorsing: sermons of hate against women, homosexuals, Moslem converts to other faiths, adulterers, anti- Semitic and misogynistic messages of hate against other faiths.

kowtows to a backward looking minority constituency

self-flagellating liberal pieties notwithstanding,

this craven pandering to a disinterested and hostile presence of an intolerant creed, and the continual placating of minorities — no matter how abhorrent their religious views are to the rest of us.

Islam wishes to conquer the world, it is illiberal, arrogant and authoritarian and hell bent on destroying the rest of us; the ideology promotes hatred and division.

We are talking about Moslems from an economically failed, culturally primitive and barbaric corner of but one part of the Asian continent.

It was our misfortune that they chose to come here.

cal thinking to the extreme and is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on here….on any subject"

hi, I hope you don't mind but I've taken out some of your unnecessary qualifiers so that it reads more like the race war epithet it is intended to be. It should now fit nicely on the back of an A5 combat 18 fleaflet if you wish.

you do know that even christianity has it's fair share of nut jobs too?

[ABBEY]

So you actually think Blackburn Rovers are to change fixtures, provide separate parts of the grounds for "Asians/Muslims" only. FFS wake up, A MFR has improved the image of the club outside of the town. Wouldn't you say that is a good thing? Secondly, if this room means 5/10 more fans coming through them turnstiles then I would gather the room to be a success. We all know it's not in the best of locations, and that is the argument from all members, other than you (and a few others). Generally, everyone agrees on the fact if it was in another location, none of this would have been a problem. However, for you to come out and pretty much "blame" and criticise Rovers of "favouring" the Muslim community, then you're bang out of order. It's called having respect for other religions and Rovers have made a terrific gesture by opening a MFR. Ever considered that "muslims" have to wait ages in the line for their half time Pies? Maybe because some of the concourses only sell beer, why don't you argue against that? Let me think maybe because that doesn't affect you? Have some thought for other religions.

this has to be the most funniest post in years ,well worth a grooby!!!! improved the image of the rovers .You mustnt talk to people in town then.Imgoing to ask how will it bring 5-10 more fans ,please show me evidence of your ramblings.We have people around us at ewood and they was asked would they or bring more into the ground with a prayer room ,their exact words were "will it (Please don't use that word again) as like,its bullshit man".

have thoughtsd for other religions?????WHY!!

ITS A FOOTY GROUND FFS NOT A BLOODY PLACE FOR PRAYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I THINK ABOUT WINNING IN A FOOTBALL GROUND AND DONT GIVE A FLYING ###### IF THE PEOPLE BEHIND ME ARE BLACK ,WHITE ,PINK,BROWN OR WHATEVER ,THERES ONE RELIGION ON ON A SAT AFTERNOON AND THATS BLACKBURN ROVERS....

[leftfooter]

hi, I hope you don't mind but I've taken out some of your unnecessary qualifiers so that it reads more like the race war epithet it is intended to be. It should now fit nicely on the back of an A5 combat 18 fleaflet if you wish.

you do know that even christianity has it's fair share of nut jobs too?

I never had, nor ever would read such publications, so I wouldn't know.

You're obviously so self-deluded in your wilful and self congratulatory ignorance that I almost feel sorry for you.

You've edited the text, I would suggest to suit your argument and fit your particular agenda.

I suggest putting the issue of the MFR to a vote of all season ticket holders and for those fans that have a record of attending x amount of home matches over a given number of seasons.

That should settle all arguments in a truly democratic fashion.

Would you be against that?

[den]

Which part is inaccurate?

Which part of the argument would you care to challenge or take issue with Den?

You disagree, can't offer a cogent response as usual, so revert to default mechanism and go bleating to the mods to close the debate. Don't forget your anorak on the way out lad.

You're pathetic.

[MCMC1875]

No matter what anyone's religion, BRFC were wrong to introduce religion into a sports club!

[ABBEY]

IF CARLSBURG did religeon this would probably how theyd do it

[thenodrog]

Can't we call it a day on this thread. I don't want to read more of the above, thank you.

Sorry Den you are just one of us now .... you don't decide these things. Don't turn all 'ex-mod' on us please.

You'll just have to use the ignore facility (if it still exists) or quite simply choose not to read leftfooters posts. Whatever slant you decide it or you are coming from you cannot deny the intellectual quality of the post. However it's a shame it's on the football board cos this will no doubt now get closed by people who have neither the time, the ability nor the inclination to allow it to continue. Unfortunately the MFPR will continue and cannot now be deleted quite as easily. Somebody at the club although no doubt well intentioned has literally and unbelievably displayed crass stupidity by sanctioning this in the first place. It's like giving two hungry dogs one food bowl to eat from in the belief that one of them will stand back and say 'after you'.

btw remind me never to argue with leftfooter.

[MCMC1875]

Back on topic....

IMO the Fans Forum is a sham and always will be, aimed at placating the masses with token gestures and so deflecting pressure from the board.