[Archived] Fans Forum (2/09/08)

[Ewood Spark]

I'm amazed . Did ALL the member of the forum "welcome" the introduction of the faith room ? If so I'd have to question how representative of the fans the forum really is . The attitudes of the fans I've come across are a mixture of embarrassment , shame and ridicule of the whole stupid project . It's not where the room is situated - it's that it exists at all !

If anybody feels that the fans forum does not reflect their views .... then feel free to apply to join. The forum attempts to represent the 'broad church' of Rovers fans and that includes all creeds and colours. Let's imagine a scenario where YOU could be bothered to air your views at a Fans Forum (with representatives of ALL sectors of the community at the table).

Chairman :- 'Next on the agenda, the multi faith room ... Phil I believe you have a view on this...'

BP :- 'With respect to some of the members round the table ... me and my mates were discussin' this at the boozer ... an' basically we don't want you encouraging 'the Others' down to Ewood.

If you feel i have mis-represented you then by all means let us know exactly what you would have said.

Surely the only concern we have as fans is to encourage as many 'others' as possible down to Ewood. If that means putting in a room for those who whose lives are dominated by a prayer schedule then so be it ... it's not as if we are short of available places to put it ... and to me this last point is the only one on this subject worthy of discussion ... If a suitable place is found ... by which none-users are not put-out ... then what exactly is the problem?

[Hughesy]

I agree, anything that adds fans is great, only the location should of been given more thought. But to be fair even though they have taken some toilet space up, im sure after the 5-10 minute rush, the toilets are pretty much empty as usual so maybe it is better use of the space.

Also no-where else to put this - so thought id ask in here. How do you get tickets for The annual presentation evening at the end of the season?? Thanks in advance

[Faz_Rover]

I agree, anything that adds fans is great, only the location should of been given more thought. But to be fair even though they have taken some toilet space up, im sure after the 5-10 minute rush, the toilets are pretty much empty as usual so maybe it is better use of the space.

Spot on Hughesy. We can't attract many fans down to Ewood and if a Multi-Faith room means 10 more season tickets then i'm all for it. That means an extra £2490, Yes it may seem a small amount, but that money can be used for other purposes.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Blue Phil is 100% correct on the Faith Room. The vast majority of Rovers fans DO NOT think its necessary.

John Williams says that he listens to the supporters, but as you say Mattyblue, I believe that the vast majority of Rovers fans do not want the multi faith room at Ewood.

I suspect that if all Rovers season ticket holders had been asked to vote on whether or not they support the idea of a multi faith room, a significant majority would have said "No." It would be interesting if the mods could have a vote poll on the issue.

Salim Mulla, the senior vice chairman of Lancashire Council of Mosques, says of the multi faith room: "It shows that the club has got a very good understanding of the needs of the Muslim community. I'm sure that it will encourage many more muslims to attend."

Perhaps Mr Mulla could tell us exactly when these thousands of muslims are going to be rushing to come to Ewood Park. We had 23,000 against Hull. Are we going to see capacity crowds of over 30,000 for the remainder of the season because of the multi faith room? I suspect not. It won't significantly increase our attendances, but it will succeed in alienating a fairly large section of Rovers fans who are very much opposed to the faith room.

Rovers’ managing director Tom Finn says of the multi faith room: "We acknowledge that we live in a diverse society and therefore need to accommodate the needs of people from all walks of life."

"All walks of life"? Should Rovers also open up a sado-masochistic room for perverts like Max Mosley to be thrashed and whipped?

then what exactly is the problem?

Well you yourself Ewood Spark have previously been a very strong critic of religion on earlier ICBINF threads. To then come out and support the idea of people praying at matches seems to me to be rather at odds with your previous opposition to religion.

It's a bit like if I were to condemn drug abuse - which I always do - and then later turn round and say I welcome a special room set aside for junkies to shoot heroin and snort cocaine at Ewood Park on matchdays, on the spurious grounds that to encourage junkies would increase our attendances at Ewood.

For me principles come first in life and if you have previously indicated an antagonism to religion and you are now defending the idea of people coming to Ewood Park to take off their shoes, kneel down and pray to Allah, then with respect, Ewood Spark, it doesn't strike me as a consistent point of view.

Or is it all about trying to attract Asian supporters and sod the principles?

Surely the only concern we have as fans is to encourage as many 'others' as possible down to Ewood.

If the club needs to cater for people from "all walks of life" and we need to encourage as many 'others' to attend, then would you be in favour of a sado-masochistic room for vile perverts like Max Mosley to come to Ewood Park? Where do we draw the line in our need to encourage as many 'others' to attend matches?

Asian fans have thus far shown little interest in Rovers. They are happy to walk around the town in Man United and Liverpool shirts, but seem to struggle to find an affinity with Blackburn Rovers. I don't feel that a so-called multi faith room is going to lead to thousands of them rushing to come to Ewood and queuing up for tickets.

I respect the Fans Forum, but I feel that on this issue they are out of touch with the majority of supporters. I suspect that a local poll or local vote would have indicated widespread opposition to the faith room.

And if Tom Finn says that the club "listens to the fans" then he shouldn't get so upset and uptight about people putting forward their views relating to the condition of the stadium.

[thenodrog]

Surely the only concern we have as fans is to encourage as many 'others' as possible down to Ewood. If that means putting in a room for those who whose lives are dominated by a prayer schedule then so be it ... it's not as if we are short of available places to put it ... and to me this last point is the only one on this subject worthy of discussion ... If a suitable place is found ... by which none-users are not put-out ... then what exactly is the problem?

Thats somewhat hypocritical coming from such a committed atheist ES.

Question for you.... we've only just opened this Prayer room so does that mean that all muslims who attended BRFC on a regular basis were bad muslims? Somehow I think not. Or maybe as Kamy pointed out there is a way around the prayer issue and that the entire thing is just a load of rubbish and is yet another perceived victory from an agenda'd minority?

[AggyBlue]

Spot on Hughesy. We can't attract many fans down to Ewood and if a Multi-Faith room means 10 more season tickets then i'm all for it. That means an extra £2490, Yes it may seem a small amount, but that money can be used for other purposes.

I'll bet you a tenner it doesn't add a single fan never mind a season ticket sale.

[Paul]

Probably been mentioned a thousand times but here we go again PARKING can the club along with the council purchase additional land or convert land for extra parking.

Living nearby I had to take my car for the Grimsby game ...what a nightmare Ewood is for your casual walk on fans cars, drove round Ewood for half an hour before ending up on Fernhurst farm and this was a night game were the Aldi car park was accessible and the crowd was very very low.

JAL, you say you live locally which I take to mean in the Ewood area or at the least Blackburn / Darwen? Is it the Oakdale of Jack Walker Way, in which case why not walk to the ground? Surely you know of all the parking around Ewood? Even a sell out crowd doesn't present any real problems if one's prepared for a 10 minute walk to the ground. I can remember once in the last ten years having a parking problem which was caused by the new car park attendants changing the direction in which they parked the cars and using up too much space. You can get on Albion Mill and the adjoining car parks any game for £3.

To expect the club / council to purchase and set aside land for car parking is ludicrous. At best it will be used for 3-4 hours per fortnight. More realistically it would be used 4 times per season when the big four come to town. One only has to look at the charges the club makes for parking to know few fans are likely to use such a facility.

[Ewood Spark]

Theno and Smiffy ... it's all very well ploughing your anti-PC furrow behind the anonymity of a keyboard or with your 'cultural clone' mates down the pub. Why not come along to a Forum and air your views in public

to a more 'cosmopolitan' audience.

What would your line of argument be on the subject of the 'Multi-Faith room'? ... do tell us ... go on ... imagine you've got the attention of the floor ... what words would come out of your mouth?. Would you have the courage of your convictions in such a situation?

Or is your problem the fact that the Forum IS open to 'all walks of life' ... if you were Chairman would THAT be the first thing you changed? You could vet all potential members to ensure that only your particular brand of mono-culturalist were invited to attend.

Perhaps that is why forums in general are perceived to be full of 'wishy-washey' liberals by the foaming mouthed bigots who are too embarrassed to air their views to a wider audience.

As for the comments alluding to my views on religion concerning this topic .... can you not see that as a strength? ... to put aside ones personal views when trying to achieve the greater good?

[JAL]

JAL, you say you live locally which I take to mean in the Ewood area or at the least Blackburn / Darwen? Is it the Oakdale of Jack Walker Way, in which case why not walk to the ground? Surely you know of all the parking around Ewood? Even a sell out crowd doesn't present any real problems if one's prepared for a 10 minute walk to the ground. I can remember once in the last ten years having a parking problem which was caused by the new car park attendants changing the direction in which they parked the cars and using up too much space. You can get on Albion Mill and the adjoining car parks any game for £3.

To expect the club / council to purchase and set aside land for car parking is ludicrous. At best it will be used for 3-4 hours per fortnight. More realistically it would be used 4 times per season when the big four come to town. One only has to look at the charges the club makes for parking to know few fans are likely to use such a facility.

The game was a one off for me in needing a car to get away from Ewood early due to work committments, I tried to get as close to the ground as was possible in the end I probably ended up no further than 200 yards from my home having driven around Ewood trying to park the car.

What all this highlighted to me was the difficulties in trying to park as near to Ewood with the minimum of cost, all these signs with resident pass required to park didnt help either at the end of the day I ask is Ewood car friendly cost effective for your ordinary fan.

Fully understand purchasing land is a ludicrous idea.

[philipl]

Minutes from the Official site

Good post by Ewood Spark

[Hughesy]

Park on the Gypsie camp on the aqueduct carpark - usually parking available on both aslong as you dont get there last minute. No problems at all parking around ewood. It takes 5 minutes to walk up to oakdale - stop moaning man!

[DingleBaiter]

Who is Greg Coar, and what is his position? Presumably a relative of Burnley Bob? Is he another relly on the payroll?

[vintageadidas]

1. Have any volunteers come forward thus far to roll out and collect the flag at each match? I take it this is for going over the Blackburn End fans?

2. I was totally unaware that a free coach was put on for reserve games at morecambe and i consider myself on top of Rovers related news. I would have used it.

3. The reply to poor PR is just not good enough! Paul Agnew has not pulled his weight through the tough times we endured in the press over the past three months. Actually, i dont think he has ever created a positive spin for the club.....he needs evaluating IMHO.

4. I would like to know what we are doing about targeting the Polish and Asian community in our town?

5. The flags look good on the way into Blackburn on Bolton Road. Well done for that.

[DingleBaiter]

Tom Finn stated they had taken advice from a firm in Preston who had put in a similar facility at other locations. Reading between the lines it sounds like the club have been badly advised in my opinion.

Crikey, beginning to sound like the Government with all their advisors; sum total of which is generally bad advice = waste of money; then waste more money rectifying the problem they shouldn't have addressed in the first place.

Two underlying factors with the multi-faith room; the justification of it and it's implementation. It's one thing to 'welcome' it, but I'd suggest the majority of fans would prefer to have something which benefits themselves rather than something that seemingly benefits no-one. As it is, it's like putting brussells sprouts out at tea for a family of five, when only one MAY eat them (but four definitely won't), and then taking every plate away in a huff - everyone loses out.

I do applaud the Fans Forum, they do their best and no doubt serve a good purpose on the whole. Problem is, those that criticise it would be unlikely to do anything themselves. I know a lot of effort goes in - voluntarily - but it's never go to solve every issue. Keep fighting the fight for good against the dark.

[DingleBaiter]

Absolutely Rev. Whilst I'm keen that we involve as wide a range of fans as possible in developing the agenda for our meetings we can't just raise every issue that someone makes on here, unless we can see the view has some general support. We did have several people making points about the state of the ground.

Tom was particularly disappointed that we raised the issue of the state of EP and to be fair to him probably a good majority of FF members also didn't see a real problem, notwithstanding the particular issue re the memorial garden.

BUT, if anyone wants to present some evidence to Tom then I encourage them to do it asap.

I'm surprised they haven't washed the bricks off all their phosphorence (sp?) in the Jack Walker & Darwen End corner that can be seen from Bolton Road. It's looked terrible for years. Silicon+jet washers+cherry picker+community service, or even a specialist company, I'd suggest would equate to the consultancy costs & building/dismantling/relocating of the multi-fudge room. I know what I think would provide more long standing value to BRFC & Ewood Park.

On a similar note of commercial value, I'd welcome discovering the Paul Agnew budget and service level agreement they have. Seems to me he's like one of these sculptors that only do work for one client as no-one else can either afford them, or they can't win work on a level playing field by tendering etc. The fact they can take on the Telegraph's 'star' journalist as well for no obvious difference in the standard of PR suggests it's a gravy train.

I'd be interested to know - as I'm sure lots of other fans would - what is the PR budget for the season? How much do they spend retaining PR? What spectrum of services do they provide? How are they quantified and successes measured? Being that Rovers clearly keep their counsel with regard to the media and PR (a good approach I respect), arguably they shouldn't be spending much on PR then? Seems to me all Paul Agnew does is make sure whenever there is some video or TV coverage on interviews he places himself just on the edge of shot to ensure he gets some publicity too!

[den]

Not worth it.

[DingleBaiter]

Theno and Smiffy ... it's all very well ploughing your anti-PC furrow behind the anonymity of a keyboard or with your 'cultural clone' mates down the pub. Why not come along to a Forum and air your views in public

to a more 'cosmopolitan' audience.

What would your line of argument be on the subject of the 'Multi-Faith room'? ... do tell us ... go on ... imagine you've got the attention of the floor ... what words would come out of your mouth?. Would you have the courage of your convictions in such a situation?

Or is your problem the fact that the Forum IS open to 'all walks of life' ... if you were Chairman would THAT be the first thing you changed? You could vet all potential members to ensure that only your particular brand of mono-culturalist were invited to attend.

Perhaps that is why forums in general are perceived to be full of 'wishy-washey' liberals by the foaming mouthed bigots who are too embarrassed to air their views to a wider audience.

As for the comments alluding to my views on religion concerning this topic .... can you not see that as a strength? ... to put aside ones personal views when trying to achieve the greater good?

Seems to me you're stretching this a tad into a polemic, and making the OP seem at one end of an opinion whilst you're all-encompassing ('cosmopolitan'?) in the FF, or maybe personally. IMO it seems to me you're reading too much into the original comments and assuming he/she is the archetypal enemy of all things good and decent.

One of the problems I have with arguments akin to this topic, is that often one party promotes inclusion, liberality, freedom of speech, consideration of all, offending nobody etc. whilst often prejudging/alienating any dissenters as extremist. No matter the merits of any argument, whoever may be right (in whoever's opinion), everyone's got a right to express their views, no matter how intolerable they may be.

It's like trying to balance 'freedom of speech' against this alarming trend in people's increasing predilection to being offended; it's never going to work.

I guess it's like Ray Harford said back in his FF; if we had an Asian (presumably South Asian) player in, we'd fill the stadium. Other Premiership clubs have quite coldly followed this agenda, and their Sales & Marketing guys must be delighted with the increased revenues from South Korea, China etc. Even the crackers Executive Chairman at Man City has targeted South America as an untapped area for development in marketing. We ourselves are benefitting with the South American angle at Ewood.

No sensible person consider the multi-fudge room as a negative idea; however I think the majority of folk would consider there are better ways to focus BRFC's efforts, financial and otherwise. Which brings nicely to another point - IF there was pre-consulation externally, how was the club going to audit/quantify the success of the room? Polling I presume. Therefore, I'd suggest the question needs to be asked if taking the room away completely would stop anyone coming to Ewood?

[Damage]

Surely the only concern we have as fans is to encourage as many 'others' as possible down to Ewood. If that means putting in a room for those who whose lives are dominated by a prayer schedule then so be it ... it's not as if we are short of available places to put it ... and to me this last point is the only one on this subject worthy of discussion ... If a suitable place is found ... by which none-users are not put-out ... then what exactly is the problem?

COMPLETE RUBBISH! So the only thing that matters is bums on seats? What about tradition and values? Lets have half-time strip shows, lap-dancing on the concourses maybe £5 blow jobs in the bogs then we would really start to fill the ground!! Do you really think that setting aside some space next to BBE bogs is going to attract "those who whose lives are dominated by a prayer schedule"? Come on put some thought into it!

Spot on Hughesy. We can't attract many fans down to Ewood and if a Multi-Faith room means 10 more season tickets then i'm all for it. That means an extra £2490, Yes it may seem a small amount, but that money can be used for other purposes.

Well for every new season ticket sold there will be 10 losses! Many people, myself included are sick and tired of the priviliges afforded to religion by our so called secular society. Well I will not support any commercial organisation that actively promotes religion. I have decided that after holding a season ticket for 2 decades that this season will the last for me and my son unless the club closes down the prayer room. I will write to the club to explain my decision if I can find the motivation over the coming months. For now if anyone at the club is reading this thread my account number is 16542 - feel free to contact me any time you like.

[Flopsy]

if they have a prayer room in the JW for staff would you complain?

[DingleBaiter]

COMPLETE RUBBISH! So the only thing that matters is bums on seats? What about tradition and values? Lets have half-time strip shows, lap-dancing on the concourses maybe £5 blow jobs in the bogs then we would really start to fill the ground!! Do you really think that setting aside some space next to BBE bogs is going to attract "those who whose lives are dominated by a prayer schedule"? Come on put some thought into it!

Well for every new season ticket sold there will be 10 losses! Many people, myself included are sick and tired of the priviliges afforded to religion by our so called secular society. Well I will not support any commercial organisation that actively promotes religion. I have decided that after holding a season ticket for 2 decades that this season will the last for me and my son unless the club closes down the prayer room. I will write to the club to explain my decision if I can find the motivation over the coming months. For now if anyone at the club is reading this thread my account number is 16542 - feel free to contact me any time you like.

Wow.

So, because of the multi-fudge room, you're turning two season tickets down. Can you honestly say that it is exclusively because of the MFR, and no other reason at all? If so, how come you didn't jack em in previously - the club's had a chaplain and a prayer room for several seasons, or is that not 'actively promoting religion'?

I guess it's like the 27 season tickets were returned to Ewood on the day Bellamy left to join Liverpool; often think there must be other reasons underlying it as it seems a tad nose-cutting-off-spite-face, although respect your convictions if it's true. But what would you have done if the club had built the room in a more discrete location and not got Paul Agnew to do a front page PR splash, i.e. if you didn't know about it? Clearly it seems you didn't know we already had a prayer room, or you wouldn't have had a ST.

[only2garners]

Who is Greg Coar, and what is his position? Presumably a relative of Burnley Bob? Is he another relly on the payroll?

Don't know Greg's exact title but he's in charge of Marketing and he is no relation of Bob Coar.

[Clog Blue]

Theno and Smiffy ... it's all very well ploughing your anti-PC furrow behind the anonymity of a keyboard or with your 'cultural clone' mates down the pub.

I resent that!

[Damage]

Wow.

So, because of the multi-fudge room, you're turning two season tickets down. Can you honestly say that it is exclusively because of the MFR, and no other reason at all? If so, how come you didn't jack em in previously - the club's had a chaplain and a prayer room for several seasons, or is that not 'actively promoting religion'?

I guess it's like the 27 season tickets were returned to Ewood on the day Bellamy left to join Liverpool; often think there must be other reasons underlying it as it seems a tad nose-cutting-off-spite-face, although respect your convictions if it's true. But what would you have done if the club had built the room in a more discrete location and not got Paul Agnew to do a front page PR splash, i.e. if you didn't know about it? Clearly it seems you didn't know we already had a prayer room, or you wouldn't have had a ST.

No the prayer room has been built for purely commercial reasons in an attempt to attract fans (wonder how the god-squad feel about the prayer room knowing the only reason for it being there is to get their wallets open!?) - I wont support it! I think I was pretty clear in stating that if the prayer room was there next season I wont be buying a season ticket - close it down and I will continue with my financial support.

I would prefer all workplaces not to have a prayer room and as an employee would prefer to work somewhere without one. Please don't use the chaplain argument - the chaplain is an historic anomaly for the "benefit" of club employees. I bet the chaplain hasnt even been to the club on official duties for years! As above, as an employee I would prefer an employer that doesnt have a chaplain.

The location of the prayer room is irrelevant - the fact that it exists and is for use by "fans" is what I disagree with. If the PR was more discrete and I didn't know about it ............. well obviously we would be having this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!! what can I say?

I have been tested in my support for the club in the past - related more to boredom with the state of football and lack of real prospects at winning. But I had come to the conclusion that BRFC is pretty good value-for-money entertainment and have continued with my financial support. However I wont give my cash to commercial organisations that promote religion - just as I wouldn't support any cinema with public prayer room or pub with public prayer room.

[Ste B]

1. Have any volunteers come forward thus far to roll out and collect the flag at each match? I take it this is for going over the Blackburn End fans?

2. I was totally unaware that a free coach was put on for reserve games at morecambe and i consider myself on top of Rovers related news. I would have used it.

3. The reply to poor PR is just not good enough! Paul Agnew has not pulled his weight through the tough times we endured in the press over the past three months. Actually, i dont think he has ever created a positive spin for the club.....he needs evaluating IMHO.

4. I would like to know what we are doing about targeting the Polish and Asian community in our town?

1) Not yet.. You're spot on.

3) He is invited to a future meeting to discuss this. Given the amount on the agenda and time, it was felt it was better to leave this till then.

4) It was suggested we had some multi language marketing to the polish community at a recent meeting.

[DingleBaiter]

Don't know Greg's exact title but he's in charge of Marketing and he is no relation of Bob Coar.

Isn't Simon Williams head of Marketing?