[Archived] Hull City Preview

[joey_big_nose]

The one thing we can definately take from yesterday is that we are going to struggle against teams who come into defend deep currently - just like last weeke Everton showed we can take comfort in the fact that if we are afforded space we can make the most of it.

This sin't anything different from most teams - look at Fulham away at Hull last week, or Spurs at home to Sunderland yesterday, or Villa versus Stoke.

Every team needs to have the players and the tactics at a minimum to cope with two different types of game. I think Ince has the tactical acument - you could se ehe was trying to unlock Hull by bringing on Tugay reasonably early and I am sure Villanueva would have made an apperence if he was available (was he injured?). The loss of Dunn was terminal for the team. Not sure Derbyshire would have made too mcuh difference due to his lack of physicality and lack of space.

Anyhow I am sure Ince will now be looking for a highly creative right winger. The central midfielder is a bit more interesting as we were looking for more of a holding player to dictate the tempo as opposed to a genuinely creative guy. Maybe that will change - although if we goa nd buy a creative central player you have to ask what was the point in getting Carlos?

[Hasta]

The one thing we can definately take from yesterday is that we are going to struggle against teams who come into defend deep currently - just like last weeke Everton showed we can take comfort in the fact that if we are afforded space we can make the most of it.

This sin't anything different from most teams - look at Fulham away at Hull last week, or Spurs at home to Sunderland yesterday, or Villa versus Stoke.

Every team needs to have the players and the tactics at a minimum to cope with two different types of game. I think Ince has the tactical acument - you could se ehe was trying to unlock Hull by bringing on Tugay reasonably early and I am sure Villanueva would have made an apperence if he was available (was he injured?). The loss of Dunn was terminal for the team. Not sure Derbyshire would have made too mcuh difference due to his lack of physicality and lack of space.

I thought one of the disappointing things about yesterday was that Hull didnt come and pull everyone back. They tried to get men forward to support the attach and genuinely tried to win the game, especiialy late on. If they'd defended and played for a draw fine but I don't believe thats what they did at all.

[roversmum]

So attendances might potentially be down by 5 x 11 (plus subs and coaching staff) - about ninety people? That's assuming they're all Rovers fans which they probably aren't anyway.

It's alright, Rev, they're probably mostly Burnley fans

[Mattyblue]

It's alright, Rev, they're probably mostly Burnley fans

No they will be Man Yoo and Liverpool 'fans'. The Blackburn Combination is not the route of any attendance problems, but the massive increase of local lads in glory shirts.

[Paul]

Anyone else of the opinion that if the rumours are true that Sunderland offered 9 MILLION! for Benni the doughnut we have made a horrible mistake not taking their coin?

I agree completely but when I posted this elsewhere I got shot down with the response that "John Williams must be lieing to Radio Lancashire." The person firing the bullets didn't post what JW said, though I did ask he do so, but I'm guessing JW has stated this is just a rumour without foundation. However if a club is prepared to give us £9m for Benni ring me and I'll drive him there myself.

[OscarRaven]

we get a 1-1 draw and ince gets 8 more games, how long do you give ramos. o'neill, and wenger in their jobs after yesterday. Wakey,wakey fella. If the manager takes full responsibility for performances then martin o'neill should have shot himself at the final whistle!

Re-read my post properly.

8 more games before I form an opinion does not equal Ince has 8 more games. Its a way of forming a measured opinion on whether or not Paul Ince will be good or bad for Rovers (unlike judging him before a ball is kicked or after the first result of the season).

Yesterdays performance at home to the relegation favourites was poor. No excuses. Not calling for the managers head simply expressing an opinion that he could have done more to counteract those "tired minds" guilty of the long ball.

[ABBEY]

Treacy has played right wing but I admit would present more of a risk in an unfamiliar role. However, Judge has played most of his short career as a right winger and I cannot understand your suggestion that he has proved that he "ain't" a right midfielder.

Ideally, we'd sign a skilful right winger, but until then, we may as well field a winger there - not Reid or Emerton. (Emo is more capable of doing a job there than Reid but we all know his speed of thought is lacking to be consistently effective)

Is Vogel injured? If so, I take back my criticism. However, Ince showed no disposition to play Vogel in friendlies and seems to like Mokoena. This astonishes me almost beyond belief. How Ince, a very good CM in his day, can see potential in Moko, I just do not know.

I'm sure Ince is doing his utmost to bring in a holding midfielder. In the meantime, I would field Steven Reid or Brett Emerton, or a fit Vogel, there. Reid has what it takes to be a holding midfielder. He is tall, strong, athletic, fast and tenacious - and his lack of skill won't be a hinderance in such a role.

how do you know all this?

[RevidgeBlue]

I agree completely but when I posted this elsewhere I got shot down with the response that "John Williams must be lieing to Radio Lancashire." The person firing the bullets didn't post what JW said, though I did ask he do so, but I'm guessing JW has stated this is just a rumour without foundation. However if a club is prepared to give us £9m for Benni ring me and I'll drive him there myself.

No idea whether it's accurate or not but the LT stated last week that Sunderland's best offer for Benni was around the 6m mark.

Got to say, the shape he's in I'd take even that IF there was a suitable replacement immediately available.

[daveoftherovers]

Agreed on the 3 points there Rev, but I can't help thinking Robinson is a dud. He appears to be absolutely USELESS on crosses and I have no confidence in him at all. His shop stopping is spot on, but when the ball is in the air I really fear the worst.

Totally disagree, at least he come for them which is more than I can say for his predecessor, wouldn't you agree?

And, you didn't mention that he sweeps (Very effectively) which is also a trait missing by his predessor?

[tcj_jones]

Rover6, I agree that we should be looking to play one of Reid or Emerton in place of Mokoena, but we don't need to make them 'fit' a holding role. I don't understand people's desire for one attack minded centre mid and another defensively minded.

Chelsea, in Makelele, had possibly the world's best defensive midfielder. However, their formation, being a 4-5-1 with two advanced wingers and with Lampard in something of a free role, really did exploit his talents. Playing a 4-4-2 with no right winger and something of a 'left sided midfielder' in Pedersen, there is no need for a holding player.

Reid, when fit, was developing into a top quality all round central midfielder. He is the nearest thing we have to one currently. I'd play him in the centre alongside Dunn and just let him play his game. Dunn's attacking nature will mean he will generally have a less advanced role, but he doesn't have to take himself out of our offensive play by just sitting on Samba's lap.

In the mean time, however, I'm not sure that any of the right midfielders is the youth or reserve teams are ready to make the cut. It would be different if it were the left side because I would advocate giving Treacy a try, or even Peter (what the hell has happened to him btw?).

My formation for West Ham, providing we do not sign any new players before then and that Dunn is fit, would be this:

Robinson

Simpson / Samba / Nelsen / Warnock

Emerton / Reid / Dunn / Pedersen

Santa Cruz / Roberts

With a new right and centre midfielder, I would move Simpson and Reid to the bench and Emerton to right back.

[Rovermatt]

A 1-1 draw with Hull is really rather embarrassing. Having watched the highlights yesterday, we still looked solid enough but predictably lacked the creativity that Bentley brings. We need signings now. It's that simple.

[grizfoot]

Typcial Rovers, get our hopes up with a good away win and then dissapoint against a lesser side at Ewood.

Although I've got to say I thought Hull did defend well for the large part, their two centrebacks looked really tall and Santa Cruz didn't win many headers all game. Thought Dunn was a big blow for us going off at half time as he was the only one making any sort of runs forward from midfield and trying to make things happen.

Thought Nelsen had his best game in a while looked strong and won us the ball up field on numerous occassions. What is clear about our defense is that the weak spot currently lies with Ooijer at right-back. The second goal against Everton came from a cross from that side and the goal yesterday came from bad marring on Ooijer's part, looked like he'd slipped in centreback mode as he was marking the striker rather than the advancing winger. Flucky header though in my opinion.

Another thing which worried me about yesterday's game was our midfield players. Apart from Dunny who was our best player until he went off, we never really looked like creating anything. Mokoena is there to do a defensive job but at home he probably gets further forward then he's comfortable with although he wasn't has bad as some people make out he didn't have the best of games. Pedersen actually looked a lot better in his general play but he let himself down on one, two, three, four I lost count of occasisons when he had a chance to put in a cross and he hit the first man. Reid did set up our goal with a well judged long ball but apart from that he showed very little he no longer appear t o have that burst of pace that he had before his injuries.

Impressed by how far Robinson can kick the ball certainly an improvement on Brad who's kicking was a bit unpredictable at times. Upfront thought Roberts looked dangerous at time, Santa didn't get involved that much but had our two best efforts towards goal in the second half.

Overall a below-par performance. We need some new midfielders definately and not to have Ooijer at RB.

[JamieUK]

I've not read any of the other posts so apologies if they repeat things... My points from the game:

If we have to play Mokoena then make it away games when we wont have as much as the ball. Far too many times it went to him and then went backwards.

We need a right winger. Desperately.

Steven Reid has sadly lost the ability to be a Premier League player.

Without Dunn our attacking play diminished entirely. People knock him but he is our best central midfield player.

Thankfully we still have a decent amount of time until the transfer window closes and Ince is able to bring in reinforcements...

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Not been on here since before the match so haven't been affected by the typical doom mongering I'm sure has occured.

Robinson - Was very solid. We need to stop putting him under pressure by passing it back to him so often, we did it with Brad and it led to some nervy moments. I don't think he was at fault for the goal, I expected it to be put back into the mix but it looped over him way beyond his reach. He seems to be good at one-on-ones though, they got through twice (offside, but neither Robbo nor the advancing striker realised) and he jumped it and got the ball both times. His kicking is really useful when we are struggling to get around players, they had some difficulty handling them. If Santa had won a few more it could have been the difference.

Warnock - Made two hugely worrying backpasses which nearly led to goals, but on the whole he was okay. Got skinned a fair few times though.

Nelsen - Saved the day a few times with some brilliant back headers when facing goal, seems to be back in business.

Samba - Made one clanger at the end of the game but luckily it rolled to Warnock and not the advancing Folan. Otherwise, solid and strong in the air.

Ooijer - Not sure where he was for their goal, not had a chance to see the replay but it seems that somebody was missing because it was two Hull players versus one Rover. Was okay.

Pedersen - Played well on the whole, didn't see too much of the ball and was unlucky with a long range effort late on. He seems to be doing well though. Also, he's no longer known as Gamst!

Dunn - Was our main driving force in the first half, when he came off we fell apart and looked clueless. He's underrated.

Mokoena - back to his usual self I'm afraid. A few dodgy passes and he is going forward too keenly, it means Reid/Dunn have to hold back because he's gallivanting around in the box. Bench time.

Emerton - He's better at RB than RM. He keeps moving too far infield and leaving a big gap where Ooijer gets trapped. Proper RM needed.

Reid - Did well, he seems to have gotten over his "cannot pass forward" mentality and put in some decent crosses. Dunn and Reid in CM could have potential.

Tugay - Not enough time to see how he did.

Roberts - Worked well and a well taken goal, was a bit of a donkey at times but he put a shift in.

McCarthy - Was obviously trying to win the ball but too late in the game to make too much of an impact. He deserves a chance in the starting XI against Grimsby. Unlocked the defence once or twice with good passes and holding play but again, not much time.

Santa - He only got one sniff of goal with his long range effort and skied it. He didn't win many in the air and looked lethargic. Obviously tired from his international endeavours and needs some rest.

On the whole, we played okay. We had hatfulls of half chances but we just couldn't put them away.

The defence had good and bad moments. One of the key things I have noticed is the fact that they are consistently winning offside decisions and seem to have improved a lot on that area. Winterburn's influence?

But the bad part of their game is the attacking. We are throwing too many defenders forward and getting caught on the break. It's fine in the last minute against Everton but we were leaving slow players like Mokoena and Reid on the halfway line to mark the two strikers who were much faster, and that caused us problems.

I think if we don't chuck as many forwards at corners a huge part of our defensive calamities will go away. Apart from the breaks, we limited them to long range efforts.

[joey_big_nose]

I am a bit worried so many are saying that Mokoena needs to get dropped. Don't get me wrong he is a pretty awful player in a number of ways, but he does do that sitting role well. Reid, Emerton, Dunn all need to drive forward to perform and hence are not "sitting" players. Whoever plays the attacking role need to drop deep to compensate if we don't play the axe which is not good for their own game.

The only other guy on our books who can do what the axe does is Vogel. He has a lot more class but serious lacks in the physical stakes.. can we really afford to have him as our enforcer? He won't win anything in the air, he cannot tackle a big guy bursting through etc.

Hopefully the next 7 days will yield a signing who can convince in this area. Otherwise the axe it is!

Part of the reason Dunn has looked so good is that Mokoena has done his dirty work. If we play a Reid-Dunn (or Emerton-Dunn) central midfield David will look much worse as he tracks back to cover his partners forward excursions. Dunn does not cover the most ground comparatively and is more far comfortable in the final third as opposed to the proper midfield.

We need a high quality "proper" defensive midfielder who can carry the water. It's an underrated position but crucial for us to push on.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Graeme Souness blamed "lady luck" for poor results.

Mark Hughes often blamed referees and linesmen for disappointing results.

Paul Ince and his sidekick Ray Mathias have decided to blame "tiredness" for Saturday's poor performance. Despite the fact that just two Premiership matches and a friendly international have been played so far, it seems the poor little darlings at Rovers are knackered according to Ince and Mathias.

Paul Ince says it's "a disgrace" that Steven Reid and Roque Santa Cruz played for 90 minutes in friendly matches in midweek. As a former England international midfielder at Man United, Liverpool and Inter Milan, one wonders whether Ince told his England managers at the time - Venables, Hoddle, Keegan and Taylor - that it was "a disgrace" to play him for 90 minutes in a friendly.

Ince gained 53 England caps between 1992 and 2000. Did he decide to keep quiet for eight years about the "disgrace" of playing for 90 minutes in friendly games?

An angry Ince told BBC Radio Lancashire on Friday: "You can tell why some Premier League managers don't let players go."

That philosophy certainly applied to Alex Ferguson's handling of Ryan Giggs in the 1990s. Since Giggs's Welsh debut in 1991, Ryan failed to play in a single friendly international match for the next nine years until 2000, missing 18 consecutive friendly games. It was always rather curious how Giggs would have a "thigh strain" or some other strange ailment during the week of friendly international games and then be back fit and well for Man United's match at the weekend.

But going back to Saturday's lacklustre performance against Hull, once again the squad weaknesses from last season have been exposed, most notably in a lack of creativity in midfield. Despite PhilipL gleefully telling us last season after Maceo Rigters had signed for us, that Rovers "have the strongest squad in our history", most observers at Ewood Park on Saturday would have noted that our midfield options are nowhere near strong enough.

Philip told us recently: "We are having a great transfer window", so presumably he thinks we are not significantly weaker than last season's "best ever squad".

Pace and creativity.

Until we find some we are going to find it very tough.

Indeed, If you add to that a lack of natural width on the flanks, then we're going to struggle against teams like Hull. We lack the pace, creativity and width to hurt mediocre teams. Last season "our best ever squad" was humiliated against Larissa and Coventry in cup competitions and we struggled at home in the Premiership against teams like Fulham and Middlesbrough, who we should be beating.

After the positive result at Goodison Park a week ago, some of the dreamers had their heads in the clouds again. Perhaps some people thought that everything in the garden was going to be rosy this season, when the reality is there are clear deficiencies in the squad. I'm afraid that we're at least two or three quality players short of being a good team. Pace and creativity is painfully absent. In addition we're making schoolboy errors at the back and conceding sloppy goals. Our new defensive coach Nigel Winterburn has a bit of work to do.

We tend to give the ball away too cheaply and we don't play enough of the crisp incisive one-touch passes, which can hurt teams. But apparently this is due to "tiredness" and "tired minds" according to Ray Mathias.

When Roger Federer lost the Wimbledon final this year in a match lasting four hours 48 minutes - playing seven matches in a fortnight - he didn't blame "tiredness" afterwards for the defeat. He knew that as a highly paid professional athlete it was his job to be fit enough. In a 1982 quarter-final game John McEnroe beat Mats Wilander in a match lasting 6 hours and 32 minutes. As far as I'm aware Wilander didn't blame "tiredness" for losing the match, which included a set 15-17.

Don Howe once said: "If players complain about tiredness it's because they are not fit enough." Some of our younger board members may not recall that in the 1980s we had unlimited FA Cup replays. If the match ended in a draw it simply carried on until there was eventually a winner. In the 1980 FA Cup semi-final Arsenal beat Liverpool after 4 matches (3 draws and a win in the 3rd replay). Arsenal had earlier beaten Sheffield Wednesday after 5 matches (4 replays).

As Arsenal also had two-legged European Cup Winners Cup matches to contend with in 1980 - beating Juventus in the semi-final and losing to Valencia in the final - they were playing four matches a week towards the end of the season. If the Rovers players are knackered after one friendly game in the middle of the week, one wonders how they would have coped with the more demanding schedules of years gone by. Teams didn't have seven subs to choose from back then either.

To those who say that the players are much faster now than 30 years ago, this is not always the case. For example, in the BBC programme "Superstars" in 1975, the former Arsenal and Newcastle striker Malcolm Macdonald ran 100m in 10.9 seconds. (Link here).

I'd like to see Benni McCarthy and Morten Gamst Pedersen run 100m in less than 11 seconds. Given how chronically unfit Benni McCarthy looks this season, it would appear that he struggles to run at all, let alone be able to do a 100m sprint in a fast time.

However if a club is prepared to give us £9m for Benni ring me and I'll drive him there myself.

I'd be happy to share the petrol costs with you Paul. At the moment McCarthy is woefully unfit and frankly a disgrace to the Rovers shirt.

[The1mattjansen]

Totally disagree, at least he come for them which is more than I can say for his predecessor, wouldn't you agree?

And, you didn't mention that he sweeps (Very effectively) which is also a trait missing by his predessor?

I think he showed at Everton, with both the Free-kick and the Baxter header, that his aerial decision making is poor. To be honest I can't recall the moments that he looked shaky yesterday, but I certainely remember feeling very nervous on more than one occassion.

I always thought Brad came for everything that he thought he would definately win, and he always won it.

Hopefully I will be proved wrong.

[modes98]

I certainely remember feeling very nervous on more than one occassion.

I always thought Brad came for everything that he thought he would definately win, and he always won it.

There were only 2 mistakes he made and both were kicks. A chip he tried to play to Nelsen which went straight out, under pressure though, and the following pressure kick which skimmed across the floor. Apart from that he was commanding and made a couple of brilliant onne on one saves, which were later given offside. A few more solid games and he will have his own confidence sky high and we will have one of the best keepers around.

That's because Brad is a 100% keeper when it comes to crosses. If thinks he may encounter problems he stays on his line nad tries to make a reaction save. The other extreme is Pepe Riena, Robinson and David James, 9 times out of 10 they make it and more often than not the time they don't they do enough to put off the player heading it.

Big brad didn't have the best of games at the weekend, letting in 3 at Stoke. I think he would have saved the 2nd one for us last season, seemed very soft by his standards.

[Silencio]

I think he showed at Everton, with both the Free-kick and the Baxter header, that his aerial decision making is poor. To be honest I can't recall the moments that he looked shaky yesterday, but I certainely remember feeling very nervous on more than one occassion.

I always thought Brad came for everything that he thought he would definately win, and he always won it.

Hopefully I will be proved wrong.

Robinson is good at kicking the ball but when it actually comes to keeping the goal he is a poor keeper. His decision making and positioning is very suspect. He's also overweight. The fact that him and James are both in the England squad is not an indication of their quality it's an indication that England have ###### poor goalkeepers.

Disappointing result on Saturday, Mathias and Ince should quit rolling out the "tiredness" excuses and get on with it. We are only two games in. Let's hope Winterburn is as good a coach as he was a left back because the defence needs sorting out.

If Ince is going to deliver on his promise of attacking football then he needs to make midfield signings, good signings. Let's hope Villanueva is good but we still need a couple more.

Please can we have Ray Mathias staying out of giving interviews, he sticks his foot in it every time and I'd rather people not know he was working for BRFC...

[daren]

I think that blaming "tiredness" is a bit specious all right, but there is a point about the midweek international friendlies.

Travel is tiring, for one. Even if it's just a couple of hours flying to somewhere in Europe.

The real problem, in my view, is that there was barely a day for the team to work on the match - they were essentially only available on Friday and Saturday morning and so it's difficult for them to go through everything before the match.

[philipl]

Independent- Hull the new Bolton

I see that AESF has joined the growing band of posters fixated on things I wrote donkeys ago. Out of context but never mind.

[RoversFanUSA]

Havent seen the high lights as of yet but have to say a little disapoined. I got a bunch of text messages from buddys of mine

giving me a hard time about the result. my responce to them was that we as a top class club didnt want hull to feel to much like derby so soon.

From reading other posts seems like we should have put our chances when we had them. Hopfully this "tired" spell goes away and we can get back to the challange at hand and startt winning games and raking up the points.

[Parsonblue]

Totally disagree, at least he come for them which is more than I can say for his predecessor, wouldn't you agree?

And, you didn't mention that he sweeps (Very effectively) which is also a trait missing by his predessor?

For me there is no comparison between Robinson and Brad. We have lost one of the top three 'keepers and replaced him with a guy who is decent but no more. I suspect Bobby Mimms is going to have to do a lot of work with him to bring him up to Brad's level of consistency. He looks poor on crosses and I am not convinced about his positional play. On the plus side his kicking is good.

However, Brad's great strength was the consistency of his performances from one week to the next. Perhaps with age, Robinson will acquire this ability - we can but hope as we are thin on the ground with regard to real 'talent' in the goalkeeping department. Brown has looked poor in pre-season and Fielding is very raw and has previously been prone to major errors when playing for the reserve and youth teams.

[brfcs5359]

Everyone has summed up Rovers up. More of last season. Dunny and Bentley held the ball up and even when the pair were poor we had ball retention. Reid a) plays with blinkers and can only play in the direction he is facing has a poor touch. Squad player. Tugay past it. Mokoena probably the best in the that position (but not good enough).

I believe DCM is Emerton's best position a) ball retention fitness c) reasonable tackler d)workhorse.

Team to face West Ham

Robinson ...looked better

Simpson ... as said.... too many goals coming down that side (as last) ...2 already this year.

Nelsen ... thought he had lost it... my MOM against Hull

Samba ... class (but needs to carry on learning)

Warnock ... jkyll & hyde as always.

Judge ... blood a youngster or buy

Emerton ... CM .. best position

Dunn ... other MOM v Hull

Vileneuva ... good enough then play....

Roberts ... 100% effort 2 goals

Cruz ... class

Pederson ... inconsistant .... might try him on the right for one game shake him up instead of Judge..

McCarthy ... overweight ... Ince has real problems and should sell

Treacy ... bit nervous ... play in the cups

Derbyshire ... 24 and at his peak almost ... difficult managerial decision ... squad player

Tugay ... great for the last 15 minutes

Kinish ... Great sqaud player .. must start v Grimsby

Oijar ... 33, lets have some AZ's money .. potential captain when starting.

Reid ... becoming a squad player .. wear's blinkers poor touch

Mokeona ... average squad player

Olson ...

[CAPT KAYOS]

It was a case of same old same old really - strange considering speaking to those that went to Everton and the comments on here after the match.

I'm not into this tiredness game either, especially so early in the season so if they are claiming this then that is a defnite manager cock up in my book ( and I aint no Ince doubter) especially when the x7 on the bench could have been used to give their poor little legs and minds a rest and utilise those that where sitting on the bench first.

As for the game - our width or lack of it was so blatantly obvious and whats with this all drifting inside malarky.It was here with Hughes but seems to have gotten worse and its only our first home game.

What's with all this lining up in a row for corners and freekicks etc - get somebody around the back as alot of the time the ball just drifts away over the that side.

Yet again no man on the half way when we are defendinf a corner a corner - only leads to panic and confusion in clearing the ball.

As for the players -

Dunn - definitely our only creative player - as with others - we where certainly lost when he went off.

Nelson - looks back to his best good solid display.

Samba - still learning - and for the size of him needs to start learning how to head a ball

Warnock - IMO except for a couple of lapses he had a good game and besides Dunn was the only other driving force going forward, hence him being out of position some of the time as he had to do the work (again!) for Pedersen.

Robinson - looked confident in my book and made a couple of timely saves even if the whistle had blown.

Roberts - excellent deserved his MOM - should not have been substituted

Santa - rubbish until the last 10 mins worst I have seen of him in a Rovers shirt - he's been on international duty before hasn't he? Surprisingly Waggy has not commented on this yet, or I have not seen it - wasn't there something about him signing a new contract before the game

Pedersen- possibly the only one that could claim tiredness ( and it showed) if he has played 4 games in just over a week - still no excuse though and his distribution was terrible.

OOJER - at fault for the goal - as mentioned drifting.

Mokoena - lost and a liability at home - didn't have a clue what to do.

Reid - not good enough any more - dallies to much.

Subs - didn't really change much.

As for Hull - set out their stall and did so well - not sure Garcia meant his goal and time will only tell if their style of play will keep them up - deserved the point they came for.