[Archived] Sparky - Not A Great Manager?

[brfcs5359]

I'm beginning to think as more and more is revealed about Sparky this summer, that he wasn't a great manager, maybe not even a good one.

At Everton last week we listed the games that were a debacle last season. Monumental managerial cock ups. Larrissa, Arsenal kids (down to 10 in Cup), Wigan away, Coventry at home, Birmingham away last game. Centre Half who admits he wasn't fit enough to play after a serious of personal blunders. Last half of the season flat at home...

Hughes strength was squad assembly, getting shut of the dross guaranteed him a decent team out each week. Turning £10m of purchases into £50m of talent. His weaknesses were odd team selections and poor tactics/substitutions. In other words some of his judgements... like choosing City as 'bigger club'.

At City it's two defeats, one embarrassing booed off at home, likely UEFA exit and no incoming transfers. The bargain basement production line seems not to have made the journey down the M66 and instead Hughes has adopted almost in his words, the Man City fantasy Galaticos Transfer Policy (Rondaldinho, Jo) based on Box Office appeal. In the Roque failed bid "We're a big club and we bid for big players". And like a chameleon, Hughes who branded himself as a respectful manager at Rovers, at City he deliberately unsettles his former club with fantasy transfer talk. Where once Hughes could sniff out £20m Roque's for under £5m, he seems bereft or unable so far and resorted to 'big money headline purchases'.

At the same time his boss/owners are pulling the rug from under him yet he defends them, a judgement call by Hughes that is not viewed from the outside as loyalty, but stupidity.

The more I hear of Rovers fantastic scouting system production line, the more i think Hughes offered Rovers less than we lead ourselves to believe.

[Mr Creosote]

How soon we forget. We were in deep **** when Hughes arrived but he went on to save our Premiership skins, sanction some great bargain basement signings, get us to two FA cup semi finals, into the top seven and subsequently Europe.

Sadly, his behaviour and lack of respect towards Rovers since leaving has sullied his reputation somewhat but he will prove to be a great manager when he is at a stable club imo.

Much as I wish Paul Ince well I would take Hughes back in a heart beat.

[JC4LAB]

Utter twonk...This was his first management position in the premier league and his achievements reflect how good a club we are at converting players into managers who can turning castoffs like Bentley into stars

[thenodrog]

Hughes strength was squad assembly, getting shut of the dross guaranteed him a decent team out each week. Turning £10m of purchases into £50m of talent.

Something I've pointed out many times. If BRFC is to be the business model that Jack Walker stipulated Hughes was the best man for that business. We have never had anybody quite like that for 60 years and ever since the famous youth team era of the late 50's. He and his team should have been rewarded more in keeping with the success of the balance sheet rather than the salary option which inevitably led to someone offering the easy sop of improved salary. We have allowed someone else to kill the goose that laid the golden egg far too easily and we should really have handled the situation much better. Jack Walker would not have alllowed the situation to develop as it did imo, but then he was a businessman fist and foremost.

Oh btw graham Hughes didn't really 'choose' Dodge City as his upward move did he?

[tchocky]

Much as I wish Paul Ince well I would take Hughes back in a heart beat.

I wouldnt. Not many managers can be called great in the EPL today. Wenger, RFW, Scolari are probably the only three. That's purely because they have won a lot of trophies even if they had better resouces than many to do so.

No way we can tell if Hughes will ever be a great manager at this point in time. He did well with us, all things considered, but I'm not sure he could have taken us any further. If he fails at City it will be easy to put the blame on the circumstances at the club. I think it may well happen.

[Hughesy]

You can add into that - very fortunate wins against Sunderland, Derby and Newcastle and poor performances against Fulham, Boro (H) - just to name a few

Whilst Hughes improved us, he never actually did anything amazing - yes we had cups runs - but never made it to a final or won anything. Yes we got in Europe, but not for long. Yes we finished 7th last year, but we were poor whilst some how securing it. He also lacked the motivation skills needed for the likes of Gamst and co and also against the poor teams we always dropped to thier level.

Hopefully Ince will do better.

[thenodrog]

You can add into that - very fortunate wins against Sunderland, Derby and Newcastle and poor performances against Fulham, Boro (H) - just to name a few

Whilst Hughes improved us, he never actually did anything amazing - yes we had cups runs - but never made it to a final or won anything. Yes we got in Europe, but not for long. Yes we finished 7th last year, but we were poor whilst some how securing it. He also lacked the motivation skills needed for the likes of Gamst and co and also against the poor teams we always dropped to thier level.

Hopefully Ince will do better.

You'd better change your boardname then.

[Billy Castell]

Hughes is a good manager and his team has talent. I think Man City is going to be to Hughes what Brighton and Leeds were to Brian Clough.

[brfcs5359]

It was just a line of thought. I think Hughes did good at Rovers, but is he a good manager? Obviously only time will tell but worth an alternate point I thought.

[almuncle]

Hughes certainly got things moving when he first arrived and turned our fortunes around but why did the board not try harder to keep him? Maybe there were things going on behind the scenes that resulted in his departure.Surely if the board really rated him they could have kept him when his dream Chelsea move failed to happen. Is it possible that they didn't want to and allowed themselves to be pushed into letting him join city.

Whatever the reasons behind him joining City, I think it shows him in a very poor light in footballing terms and at a personal level.He should never have gone to such a morally suspect club and his behaviour since then has been a disgrace. I wouldn't have him back even if he brought Johnson with him.

[rover6]

Before any gets too excited about Hughes' inauspicious start at Man City, I refer you to Hughes' difficult start at Rovers - a terrible thrashing by Boro, for example. Hughes will, I'm sure, steady the ship at City - if given time.

If there was one major criticism of Hughes, he really did mess up going into his last Rovers season with only Tugay and Mokoena as back up. Then Sav was sold, which was fine, but we didn't get anyone in and then over the hill came the figure clad in armour upon a white steed, Johann Vogel...... Central mid judgments have been proven his weakness amongst the many good signings.

Hughes was undoubtedly a GOOD manager. I believe that his strengths were his phlegmatic way of building team morale, his effective emphasis on the scientific side of footy - physical aspects especially, and his resourceful thinking in the transfer market.

I believe his weaknesses are/were that he was too conservative. He did not readily make subs, his readiness to bring in last-legs squad players displayed a fear of giving youngsters a chance, he stuck with players despite evident poor form, he took torturously long times to mull over trialists and so on.

However, we must remember that Rovers were his FIRST club team. He was learning at Rovers and imo he was showing signs of consistent improvement. I believe that his entrenched risk-averse mentality will prevent him from ever being a great manager. However, he can, imo, reach the heights of David Moyes, given time.

[thenodrog]

If there was one major criticism of Hughes, he really did mess up going into his last Rovers season with only Tugay and Mokoena as back up. Then Sav was sold, which was fine, but we didn't get anyone in and then over the hill came the figure clad in armour upon a white steed, Johann Vogel...... Central mid judgments have been proven his weakness amongst the many good signings.

I'm sure that there is a rather whiffy tale to tell regarding that Sav out / no one in situation. It just did not stack up with the business model that had served so well for 4 years.

[brfcs5359]

Before any gets too excited about Hughes' inauspicious start at Man City, I refer you to Hughes' difficult start at Rovers - a terrible thrashing by Boro, for example. Hughes will, I'm sure, steady the ship at City - if given time.

If there was one major criticism of Hughes, he really did mess up going into his last Rovers season with only Tugay and Mokoena as back up. Then Sav was sold, which was fine, but we didn't get anyone in and then over the hill came the figure clad in armour upon a white steed, Johann Vogel...... Central mid judgments have been proven his weakness amongst the many good signings.

Hughes was undoubtedly a GOOD manager. I believe that his strengths were his phlegmatic way of building team morale, his effective emphasis on the scientific side of footy - physical aspects especially, and his resourceful thinking in the transfer market.

I believe his weaknesses are/were that he was too conservative. He did not readily make subs, his readiness to bring in last-legs squad players displayed a fear of giving youngsters a chance, he stuck with players despite evident poor form, he took torturously long times to mull over trialists and so on.

However, we must remember that Rovers were his FIRST club team. He was learning at Rovers and imo he was showing signs of consistent improvement. I believe that his entrenched risk-averse mentality will prevent him from ever being a great manager. However, he can, imo, reach the heights of David Moyes, given time.

A great analysis.

[Martin]

Hughes did a wonderful job of keeping us up when he first arrived. I seem to remember losing 4-0 back to back early on in his reign. To stay up with Dickov and Stead upfront was very impressive.

We then finished 6th with a very poor squad in my opinion. Hughes' best season.

Hughes then built a better squad but that never managed to translate itself into a league position.

Hughes' best work was done with bringing in players who will leave the club for much bigger fee than what he signed them for.

I never wanted rid of Hughes and I liked his organisation. But....

...our football was flat. We couldn't defend. His interviews are boring.

Sometimes it annoys me that Hughes says he had taken Blackburn Rovers as far as he could. I think it may be the case that Blackburn Rovers had taken Mark Hughes as far as they could.

[brfcs5359]

We were talking about the scouting systems at Ewood yesterday. Comparing to Liverpool's (with an LFC ST Holder). They said theirs was crap. When you compare how Liverpool have turned what appears to be £50m of bargain purchases into £10m of talent and Rover shave turned £10m of bargain purchases into £50m of talent you have to agree.

Sometimes it annoys me that Hughes says he had taken Blackburn Rovers as far as he could. I think it may be the case that Blackburn Rovers had taken Mark Hughes as far as they could.

I think that is a succinct point.

[1864roverite]

Rather than Hughes not being a great manager is it not a reflection of our very own Blackburn Rovers FC as to how GOOD a club it really is ?

BRFC is unique in every sense of the word. It is a club that would appear to progress a players ability, restore a battered reputation whilst at the same time provide a stepping stone to generate income to balacne the books.

Examples of this go back many many years even though we have been perceived by many as a selling club.

The truth is we are but what a fantastic record we have albeit with one or two hiccups along the way.

BRFC was good to Mark Hughes whilst he reciprocated in full. The same must be said of Souness.

When MH came to Ewood he had the "failure" of the then Welsh set up hanging over him. Rovers in a downward spiral gave him a job and he made good. Be in no doubt though, BRFC also made significant contributions to his style of management. With John Williams at his side the club was guided along the wave of good fortune, class signings of players such as Bentley, Samba, Nelsen and RSC were made. ALL at significant low prices in comparison to what we see in todays transfer market.

Hughes's riegn began to wobble when that massive club NUFC Barcodes came knocking, that turned his head. The thought of spending money whilst playing in the not so successful hotbed of football that is the North East of England clearly appealed to him. He didnt get his wish so he opted for Frankie and his dream after 6 months of sulking at Ewood. This clearly evidenced by his lack of desire in the closing 6 games at Ewood Park with some of the most inconsistent displays we saw during his tenure.

Now he has found that his prophetic words of "the grass is always not greener" have come home to roost. He mad ehis bed and must lie in it. City's fans rank alongside the Geordies as the most deluded in the Premiership. There is not a cat in hells chance that City will drag itself into the top 4 clubs, there is even less chance of them winning a cup or having harmony within its walls, there is no chance that in the near future that they will even own their own ground on which to mortgage themselves to the hilt, what there is though is the chance to mirror LEEDS UNITED FC and that is what will ruin MH's career or at the very least stop him from having a top 6 job ever again.

Man City is a poisoned chalice that ranks alongside NUFC. Look at the managers who have been and gone and have disappeared into obscurity after success at a lesser club, such as ours at Ewood.

He took a chance and by the looks of it, it could be his swansong as failure beckons as he will no longer be considered for the likes of United or Chelsea.

[den]

Rovers exist for the simple goal of putting as good a football team as possible, onto the park.

Hughes is finding out that City must pacify over egged egos and over ambitious minds. They must serve owners who exist only to cover historic, political lapses.

He's left a football club for a minefield of huge proportions.

[RevidgeBlue]

Hughes was an exceptional manager for us, I feel that he just hit a bit of a ceiling after being here for four years, it seemed like what was essentially the same group of players weren't responding quite as enthusiastically to the same voice, and the owners let him down shamefully imo in not affording him more financial support to improve/freshen up the squad still further.

I think we saw last Saturday how some new faces and a fresh approach extricated a considerable improvement in performance from several players who had looked less than special at times under Hughes. Whether that level of improvement with the same players can be maintained long term is another question.

One final thing, if Sparky had gone to Chelsea, I would have backed him fully and they would have become almost "my second team". I can't be as enthusiastic about him leaving us for the mighty Citeh, and am now indifferent to say the least about his progress. In fact, as one of our more direct rivals, I badly want Citeh to fail.

I don't however subscribe to the view he has let himself down with any approaches for any of our players. He is employed by Manxchester City now ( for better or worse) and has to do the best he possibly can for them. Whether that's at our expense or someone else's.

[CrazyIvan]

In my opinion, Hughes was a good manager for us, in the same way that Souness was a good manager. Neither are great managers. I'll define good for you before you jump on me

Good Manager - Has an impact in the first few years of club management and improves the club but seems to go off the boil in the 3 - 4 year period after which they look for a 'greater challenge'. Overall, they improve the club. Hughes kept us up, got us to two cup semi's. Souness got us promoted and won us a cup. After that the impact the manager has on the club seems to drop off. Personally, I think Hughes is the better of the two managers purely based on consistency but in terms of actual achievements, Souness wins hands down.

Great Manager - Has a consistent impact on the club, wins consistently and doesn't go off the boil for extended periods of time. Ferguson is at the highest end of the great manager scale with Wenger somewhere below him. To become a great manager, Hughes needs to prove his success over and over, year in year out. Moving after 5 years is never going to do that. I very much doubt Souness could reach even half the success Wenger has, much less Ferguson. You may laugh at this but the facts bear it out, Dario Gradi was a great manager for Crewe Alexandra. With him at the helm they achieved a lot with kids and produced numerous top-level players during his tenure. He can't ever be in the same class a Ferguson because of the complete difference in footballing levels. To see how Crewe have fallen off in the last couple of years, since he stopped being the manager, just highlights how good he was. If you ask a Crewe Alex fan what they most regret, I'll bet it is the two facts of Gradi not being manager any more and having to sell the best young talent they produced over the years.

Average Manager - Has minor positive impacts on the club and has minor achievements. Never reaches the heights or drops too low. I'd class Steve Mclaren as this kind of manager at club level only. He never achieved much at Boro, probably not as much as Southgate but they never dropped too low. At International level, Mclaren was an abject failure.

Poor Manager - Has bad player management skills, tends to lose his dressing room after a period of time and the club ends up in a worse state than when they started. Souness had some of this towards the end. Doesn't make him a poor manager overall but take the last couple of years of his reign as Rovers boss and this happened. John Barnes, Sammy Lee... This list could go on for ages.

A great deal of this has to do with the club they are at and the time they are at that club. Some managers are just lucky, others plainly unlucky but some prove over and over that they are the best. Much as I dislike the club and the man, Ferguson is one of those. To be truly a great manager, Hughes needs to prove he's more than just a good manager and consistently keep a club at a better level than maybe it should be. Time will tell for Hughes.

[brfcs5359]

Rather than Hughes not being a great manager is it not a reflection of our very own Blackburn Rovers FC as to how GOOD a club it really is ?

I think that was at the heart of posting this thread. Hughes or Rovers? We know it's both, but in what proportions? Given the treadmill of talent now coming through Ince's door it almost feels like 'business as usual' for Rovers as club.

Not sure on the JackW thing. He pumped big cash into Harford, Hodgson and Kidd. Even Souey got cash. I think JohnW (Best CEO in the Lge bar none) has moulded the current regime and an overhaul of the academy is part of that.

[RevidgeBlue]

Great Manager - Has a consistent impact on the club, wins consistently and doesn't go off the boil for extended periods of time. Ferguson is at the highest end of the great manager scale with Wenger somewhere below him.

Massive difference between Hughes and Ferguson though, Ferguson has always said both that

1) He looks into his players eyes at the start of every season to see if there is still the same hunger there. If there isn't, he ships them out.

2) He always looks to bring a couple of players in each season to keep things fresh anyway.

At ManUre Fergie has the luxury of being able to wave the chequebook about and go after practically any player in the world. Would he have coped as well had he just had to "wee with the willy he has got?"

Or alternatively, how good could Hughes have been from his existing base at Rovers had he been given the clout to keep improving things?

[Majiball]

Hughes did a great job for us, he kept us in the league and drove us up the table. We should all praise him for what he did, his dealings in the transfer market where Roy of the Rovers stuff. Every year he found a gem, or two. I do however feel last year was his biggest failing, and ultimatly the reason he decided that greener grass was needed.

Last season he did something I never understood he raised the bar again, we would challenge for fourth. Thats quite some statement in todays game and not one he mentioned once, the players also followed in that belief. I think in doing that we lost some of what had made us a top 6 team, it was almost as if we thought we were better than we where. We had some shocking results, that would never have happened before, we expected victory. We where very public about our 4th place credentials, it meant anything less would be construed as failure, players would begin to question themselves "are we really good enough". Before it was always staggered targets 40 points as quickly as possible and so on.

We had a strong first 11, but at the same time had players with no challenge to there roles. Some players will enter there comfort zone in that situation, to keep them out of it requires great motivational skills. Hughes will at the same time have been very aware that the money would not be available for him in the quantities he would have desired. He would also have known the only way to raise more would be to sell. I'm not sure he honestly thought he could improve his lot with what he had. What would hughes have done if bentley and brad had left?? Would he have thought he could improve upon them with what he would have got for them?

The one qualitity I honestly feel Hughes lacks is a strong knowledge of Psychology he should have known how Benni would react to rejecting chelsea's advance's. MGP's form was awful, he always played but a top manager would have known what to do with him Hughes it would seem did not. We started some games as if we had a gammy leg and only came to life in the second half. Samba as well suffered from a loss of confidence. Its a huge part of the game nowadays.

One other point that has puzzled me is the RSC BM situation. Hughes being a forward should have understood the inner workings of a succesful partnership, but as we all have seen they do not work together. Now whether this is down to Benni's change of attitude, I cannot be certain but I would have thought Hughes would have been able to make it work.

Hughes built a good reputation with us and deservadly so, was he prepared to risk losing it by having to re-build as Ince is now doing, no. His stock was as high as it was ever going to be, he felt it was time to cash in. Having to replace two top class players with 12.5M (brad and Bentley) is no easy task as we all have seen. Hughes was not prepared to risk it, it was his time to leave and he has with our blessing for what was a great few seasons, if he honestly felt it was time to go then it was time, you don't keep an unhappy player in your squad the same goes for the manager.

[CrazyIvan]

At ManUre Fergie has the luxury of being able to wave the chequebook about and go after practically any player in the world. Would he have coped as well had he just had to "wee with the willy he has got?"

Or alternatively, how good could Hughes have been from his existing base at Rovers had he been given the clout to keep improving things?

The club has an impact on the managers ability to manage. Of that there is no doubt which is what I have tried to say at the bottom of what I wrote.

I think Ferguson would probably still be a great manager at a club with less resources, which is the point I tried to make with Dario Gradi. The success of the manager to achieve great things at the level the club is capable of being at (and maybe getting a little beyond that) consistently is the mark of a great manager. Resources and buying power do not guarantee success, moulding a team and being able to add a top quality player into your already successful team and still maintain the cohesion is genuine managerial talent. Ferguson has proved himself in that regard at club level over and over again. Personally, he still has to conquer Europe (Champions League) on a more consistent basis to reach the highest echelons of the greatest managers.

Can Hughes achieve that? Who knows at this point? He is merely good at the moment.

[Eddie]

I'll stand by what I said last season; Hughes was fantastic in the transfer market (atlthough a large degree of luck is involved in that and also a good network of scouts and sources), but he was practically useless when it came to tactics. He put together a great squad considering how much he spent, although his failure to address the problems in central midfield still amazes me (it also wasn't out of character, he left us with huge problems at left back for a while too), but he simply had the team train and sent them out in the same way for every team. At first it was ok, we were fighting for our lives, were super fit and avoided relegation. The next season we had individual performances above what we could have ever expected (Bellamy, Reid...even Kuqi). After that, he lost it a bit. The only time I can remember him actually making a side play differently was at home to United last season. Was that just to impress the bigwigs at Old Trafford? He had to put in that bit more effort to show that he was good?

That isn't to say Hughes was bad, but he wasn't great. He'd be a great Director of Football or Technical Director, a team of Hughes and Ince would probably work well, but unfortunately we'll never see that. I became convinced about halfway through last season that it was in the best interest of the club for Hughes to leave, I got a lot of flack for that, but I stand by it and I'm happy with the results. Ince wouldn't have been my first choice as his replacement, he could end up being fantastic, but his lack of experience makes this season a difficult one. However, despite that obvious problem, I still think we are on course to match what Hughes achieved last season. That's a credit to the squad that Hughes put together, but also considering the loss of Friedel and Bentley and all the coaching staff, it's also a sign that what Hughes did wasn't as amazing as some believed, or as I believed for a while.

[waggy]

i like hughes as a manager,bit negative and he did his time with us,LET IT GO