[Archived] Sparky - Not A Great Manager?

[thenodrog]

I don't agree Gord. I was thinking about this more and I think it'd be fair to say Fergusons level dropped significantly after his knee injury and has never gone back up.

I was well happy when he signed and he was starting to find his feet before the curse of the injury struck. I agree completely Souness, conspiracy theories sorry not for me, Ferguson would have come good if he had stayed and made a difference.

Those two viewpoints do not exactly tally.

We paid far too much for him without doubt, his quality never matched the hype, and the way he handled the whole homesick issue left a very bad aftertaste. We were done up like a kipper and the only real issue is who was and wasn't involved in the sting.

[T4E]

We paid far too much for him without doubt, his quality never matched the hype, and the way he handled the whole homesick issue left a very bad aftertaste. We were done up like a kipper and the only real issue is who was and wasn't involved in the sting.

There's no evidence to support that.

If Rangers had got Boumsong back for half what they sold him for, I'd think you might be on to something.

[Majiball]

I'm a Jock Theno I have to big up our players especially the ones who make it to the Premier league. It would seem that we are getting few and far between in the league and its disappointing.

[bellamy11]

There's no evidence to support that.

If Rangers had got Boumsong back for half what they sold him for, I'd think you might be on to something.

Didn't Rangers make an £8m profit on Boumsong when GS bought him when he'd been at the club for something like 6 months?

[T4E]

Indeed - but I do not believe that is Gordon's point. What he is saying is that we bought Ferguson high and sold him back low, a sting which was planned from the outset.

We all know Souness liked to overpay for players - but I don't see anyone suggesting anything untoward in his dealings with Ternana or Real Mallorca. He just has no idea the value of a footballer.

[bellamy11]

Indeed - but I do not believe that is Gordon's point. What he is saying is that we bought Ferguson high and sold him back low, a sting which was planned from the outset.

No, of course. For what it's worth, I'm not entirely sure I believe the conspiracy theories about Ferguson. However, if they did turn out to be true I wouldn't be able to say I was totally surprised.

I am actually more suspicious of GS's favourite club making £8m off him for Boumsong less than a year after signing him. How many players have been sold so quickly at such a rapid increase in value? (and this isn't a rhetorical question - it could make a pretty good trivia question)

[thenodrog]

There's no evidence to support that.

If Rangers had got Boumsong back for half what they sold him for, I'd think you might be on to something.

They probably could have .... if they had considered him worth 4m! Why on earth would Rangers want Boumsong back? Juve got him for less than 4m anyway. Truth is Gers paid 1m for him and he was barely worth that.

[T4E]

I am actually more suspicious of GS's favourite club making £8m off him for Boumsong less than a year after signing him. How many players have been sold so quickly at such a rapid increase in value? (and this isn't a rhetorical question - it could make a pretty good trivia question)

They probably could have .... if they had considered him worth 4m! Why on earth would Rangers want Boumsong back? Juve got him for less than 4m anyway. Truth is Gers paid 1m for him and he was barely worth that.

Boumsong was outstanding in that 6 months for Rangers - they would have had him back in a shot.

For another example, see Alan Hutton. Was utter bobbins when he first got in to the Rangers team, had a long term injury, came back and was bobbins again, then signed a new contract in the Summer and turned in to Cafu. 6 months later he was off to Spurs for £9m.

[Eddie]

Boumsong continues to be a very highly rated defender in everywhere apart from the premiership. Despite his Newcastle fiasco he still has a spot in the French team and I am quite sure that if he had another go in the premiership he'd look a good defender.

If Souness was corrupt in some way, which I'm fairly sure that he wasn't, he'd have been smart enough to do it in a more covert way than by simply buying Rangers players for inflated fees. We massively overpaid for Ferguson, but at the same time we got a great deal in Tugay.

Indeed - but I do not believe that is Gordon's point. What he is saying is that we bought Ferguson high and sold him back low, a sting which was planned from the outset.

We all know Souness liked to overpay for players - but I don't see anyone suggesting anything untoward in his dealings with Ternana or Real Mallorca. He just has no idea the value of a footballer.

It's not that, it's just that he got some wrong and he got some right. Every manager will make poor decisions regarding transfers and despite the huge blunders (Ferguson and Grabbi being the two that stick out) he had a very high success rate.

[T4E]

It's not that, it's just that he got some wrong and he got some right. Every manager will make poor decisions regarding transfers and despite the huge blunders (Ferguson and Grabbi being the two that stick out) he had a very high success rate.

I agree with you - Souness is another in that list of managers who cannot spend the big money. When these guys are at clubs with limited resources they are generally buying players that other clubs do not want - therefore the transfer fee isn't as much of an issue. Tugay is a case in point. When it comes to buying another clubs best players you generally have to spend big - the skill is knowing the threshold at which it becomes too much. The vast majority of the time Souness got that wrong. Infact I'm struggling to think of any he's got right at £6m or more.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

i understand the points about Souness and some dodgy transfers but to say HE pays over the odds surely cannot be true. A football manager is a manager, he gives tactics, man management, training schedules etc and also player recommendations, however (i might be wrong) but i very much doubt that a manager would be involved in any transfer price of a player or the negotiations between clubs. People are paid a lot of money to deal with negotations and the finance side, something a manager wouldnt have the skills for.

Also if you think the boumsong transfer was a bit steep, what about Darren Bent, signed by charlton for free and the next summer off for 17million. Now thats how to make money!!

[T4E]

Bent cost £3m and was at Charlton or two seasons.

It was ridiculously steep though, you're right on that.

[LeChuck]

I think the trick is to sell young English players to Spurs, they'll give you ridiculous money.

Like us, Charlton never saw the whole fee because they too had a sell-on clause, although I think Ipswich only received 20% of that.

[Eddie]

I agree with you - Souness is another in that list of managers who cannot spend the big money. When these guys are at clubs with limited resources they are generally buying players that other clubs do not want - therefore the transfer fee isn't as much of an issue. Tugay is a case in point. When it comes to buying another clubs best players you generally have to spend big - the skill is knowing the threshold at which it becomes too much. The vast majority of the time Souness got that wrong. Infact I'm struggling to think of any he's got right at £6m or more.

Cole.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

Bent cost £3m and was at Charlton or two seasons.

It was ridiculously steep though, you're right on that.

ah ok slightly wrong there then, but its right about selling young english players quickly. look at us, Jay Mcevely had a great game against beckham everyone remembers it. his fee would have been quite high after that. Same with a lot of other players, sell them whilst they look like thay have potential instead and receive a higher fee. Blackburn have let too many young players go for free recently.

[T4E]

Cole.

Highly debatable. I would say he was worth it as it helped keep us up, but then he was getting on and we ended up letting him go for free, which suggests not the best signing from a financial point of view.

[Eddie]

He gave us a few years of good service and he continued to perform in the Premiership after leaving us, so our decision to let him go may have been a mistake that makes his time here look worse. We probably wouldn't have stayed up without him and we may not have won the Worthington Cup, so I would say that is 8ish million well spent. He also then played a part in a very good year that we had the season after, so he more than repaid his fee.

[tcj_jones]

Ferguson took a while to find his feet in the Premier League but, in the run up to the Newcastle game, when he was injured, he looked as if he were going to be an excelent player for us. He was actually superb in that particular game in which were were in absolute control until his substitution, when Newcastle started to dominate. I have no doubts that, had he not been injured in the way he had, he's have gone on to be a top player in the league. I think Souey got that signing right but circumstances were just very unfortunate.

T4E, as far as signings for £6m or above go, what about Andy Cole? If memory serves me right, he cost us £6m and his goals kept us in the league. If only we could sign another Andy Cole this January.

Souey made a few mistakes in the transfer market, usually when big money came into it - as T4E suggests - but I feel people are sometimes too critical of his record. Afterall, he brought in the likes of Friedel, Neill, Emerton, Tugay and Cole who have all gone on to be key figures for the club. Overall, I think his record is good.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

T4E, as far as signings for £6m or above go, what about Andy Cole? If memory serves me right, he cost us £6m and his goals kept us in the league. If only we could sign another Andy Cole this January.

Or even cheaper another Jonny Stead. a fantastic move at the time

[thenodrog]

Boumsong was outstanding in that 6 months for Rangers - they would have had him back in a shot.

I've no doubt. But I've no doubt either that facing the likes of Henry, Drogba, Rooney, Berbatov RSC et al provided a sterner test than the front line striker for Gretna or Inverness Caladonia Thistle etc.

[Rover4ever]

I am sure Hughes will come under greater scrutiny after their home loss to Everton.

At this point Ince and Hughes are the 2 worst performing managers wrt the squads they have. Is there any any way, Hughes will be replaced any time soon, so we can have him back, with the Board promising him greater funds than last time?

I know this sounds like a letter from a ten year old to Santa, but Hughes back to Blackburn would be a Christmas gift that would make me mighty pleased

[Drunx2002]

At this point Ince and Hughes are the 2 worst performing managers wrt the squads they have.

Hughes back to Blackburn would be a Christmas gift that would make me mighty pleased

I'm not sure on your logic there. Replace the worst manager in the league with the second worst? Hughes would never come back with the lack of funds we have now anyway, and after sacking Ince funds would be even less.

[Rover4ever]

I'm not sure on your logic there. Replace the worst manager in the league with the second worst? Hughes would never come back with the lack of funds we have now anyway, and after sacking Ince funds would be even less.

Hughes is the 2nd worst only because he is managing Citeh. Eriksson was meant to manage a squad and managements like Citeh's . Hughes was meant to manage someone like us, and he did admirably well. He is somewhat out of his depths at City..

How else do you explain Hughes coming 7th with us, and then proceeding to a slightly better squad and languishing in 15th ?

If Hughes were to be sacked, i cant imagine anyone else trying to risk him managing them apart from us, or Newcastle if Kinnear starts doing bad.

If he comes back at least he will be able to get SantaCruz, Samba, Ooijer (his recruits) playing better

[Mr. E]

Hughes is quite responsible for the mess we are in.

If people would stop lying to themselves, they'd realize there two single reasons why won games last season - Brad Friedel and David Bentley. This was not a team efforts, we were a 2/3 man team if there ever was one. 90& of all balls went through Bentley and no one else in the team even looked remotely like making a threat. Bentley either scored himself or crosses for Santa to head it in. No more Bentley - Santa now is completely helpless. On the other end - Friedel saved 5-6 clear goal chances a game, as he has been doing for many seasons. Robinson can't save even 1/3rd of that, and the defense is being exposed for what it really is.

Friedel and Bentley were worth no less than 40 points together, and this is the reality of life without them. Hughes left us without a team.

[James No. 7]

Friedel and Bentley were worth no less than 40 points together, and this is the reality of life without them. Hughes left us without a team.

Hang on. Those two didn't leave under Hughes. Even if they were destined to leave, it was not Hughes' fault they were not adequately replaced.