[Archived] Give Us Our Toilets Back!

[DingleBaiter]

Just correcting his mistakes Ricky. He seems to think he knows more about Islam than me, which isn't the case. Secondly, blaming Islam for certain events, I'm not going to sit here and do nothing about it am I? (Before you say "where have I blamed Islam?", just have a look at your posts in previous topics)

The room is being used during the week, when other members of staff that work their on a daily basis need to use it. So it isn't aimed for only Matchdays. Most work areas have a Multi-Faith Room, and Ewood is also a work area for many people.

He started it Miss!

Roar, you took umbrage at a point and got all defensive, accusing people of blaming Muslims. Thereby you have a responsibility for taking it off-topic. As stated previously, the poster you responded to made a point of saying Muslims (or whoever it's aimed at) would surely not think it the best idea to locate it as it was.

Do you agree with the point it's been badly thought out & implemented? Of course you do.

Try and concentrate on what you agree on hey?

[CrazyIvan]

I think the location of the Multi-Faith room is plainly silly. I don't know who came up with the idea of using one of the busiest toilets in Ewood but they can't have thought that one through. It was always destined to cause issues with some fans and I'm sure they could have come up with a better location for it. Using toilets in the Blackburn End? Maybe there is some religious reason for that particular location, maybe someone can enlighten us?

[nowthen]

For the record it was thennow who took it off topic on post 9, which Roar responded to.

No I didn't. I had a look in the room and there is a pile of about 15 Islamic prayer mats and only one Bible so it's probably aimed at Muslims primarily (but other faiths are welcome to use it). My point was the siting of the room is counter productive because those who may want to use it, mainly Muslims in my opinion, would surely prefer to do so without such opposition and scrutiny that its situation was bound to bring. RotR then accused me of having a go at Muslims, thus taking it off topic, which if you read my post, is ridiculous.

[bob fleming]

Knock it down, turn it back into the full size toliet that it was last season. Anything else is just sheer lunacy. It's almost as though the club wants problems.

Was this brought up at the Fans Forum by the way? Those who sit on that Forum, were you consulted? If not whats the point in having one?

[Jan]

Just correcting his mistakes Ricky. He seems to think he knows more about Islam than me, which isn't the case. Secondly, blaming Islam for certain events, I'm not going to sit here and do nothing about it am I? (Before you say "where have I blamed Islam?", just have a look at your posts in previous topics)

The room is being used during the week, when other members of staff that work their on a daily basis need to use it. So it isn't aimed for only Matchdays. Most work areas have a Multi-Faith Room, and Ewood is also a work area for many people.

Most work areas certainly do NOT have a multi-faith prayer room. They certainly wouldn't take away one of the most used areas in their business to have it if they did.

This shows scant regard for the vast majority of Ewood fans and more than a little tokenism and "pcitis" from whoever's idea it was. No objection to a prayer room out of the way for employees if they feel the need, but this is the wrong place. Also since the Blackburn end is one of the fuller areas of the ground, how EXACTLY do they propose to use it to encourage more people in? If they put it in the JW, maybe the people they're trying to encourage would buy tickets there and make it look less empty!!

[Ste B]

I'm not going to sit here and do nothing about it am I?

You are for a while actually. You've had enough warnings for trolling in the past, and in this instance you had been asked to drop it and have kept going.

Bob - This has never been brought up at the fans forum. Its on the agenda for the next meeting. I think by then that the club will be more than aware of peoples feelings on this.

[3rdpillar]

If there are as seems to be reported loos in the "multi faith room", then they could be used by parents supervising children when using the loo. Far more approprate than taking girls in to the mens ( as was seen yesterday ).

There you go, found a good use for the room.

[thenodrog]

I've read the thread and it's bordering on going down the route of being closed. BUT there is definitely a topic here to be discussed as long as it can be done in a suitable way.

Just a thought but if this thread is a barometer then locking it / closing it down might prove to be the best answer to both issues. If people are going to fall out on here then that room located where it is has no chance. To lock the thread whilst the club leaves the prayer room open would speak volumes.

The club have dropped a huge bollockhere. They have made an obvious mistake and any attempts to correct it will take a supreme act of diplomacy by the club's PR dept (have we got one btw?).

Cue the Islamic prayer room being changed back to a bog and re-opened somewhere less contentious and quieter. For what it's worth my money would be on the Darwen End JW Upper.

btw ... apologies to anyone who currently sits there.

[Stuart]

For me, the introduction, and siting, of the 'multi-faith room' (if such a thing isn't an oxymoron anyway) comes down to money. Hear me out...

If this was simply for the use of staff, it could easily have been located somewhere away from the masses - making it much more accomodating as a place of worship / quiet contemplation in any case.

The fact that it has been made available for fans as well suggests that the club are trying to be more accommodating to the large percentage of muslim people in the area - and, whether or not we all stay PC about it or not, this is surely the group who would make most use of such a room, particularly given the abundance of prayer mats (according to thennow) and need for removal of shoes.

Whilst part of me would like to think that it is indeed the aim of BRFC to bring together the community, I honestly see this as the club trying (again) to tap into what must be seen as a large potential fan base. Most muslim lads I know are more into cricket than football and those that are into football are supporters of Manure, and, in a lot of cases, the Arse (possibly due to the multicultural mix of the first team over recent years).

The club cannot really be criticised for making a business case to go down this road since they are unable to fill the ground week in week out and do need more 'bums-on-seats'. I do not think my view on this is particularly cynical either.

The big problem with this is the sensitivities around doing this in a way which doesn't alienate the current Ewood faithful but joins the existing and new fans to do nothing more than support the club - both with a financial (season tickets) and spiritual (shouting from the terraces) investment.

This is not an easy mix, and whilst I applaud the club for the intentions, any criticism has to centre around the decided location of the room; the fact that they have reduced the sanitary facilities (which, let's face, it is not good for 4000 beer-swilling individuals on a Saturday afternoon); and the seeming lack of consultation with existing fans (e.g. by the fan's forum) as to how best to do this.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Is it common practice for Muslims and Christians to worship together...surely the whole notion of a MUTI-FAITH room is a nonsense to begin with?

[Jan]

Jisty

If it was in a part of the ground with great swathes of empty seats, I might agree with you. It isn't. It's tokenism.

Question. If umpteen muslims (i use them as an example because, to my knowledge, they are the only ones with set prayer times) buy tickets in the JW 'cos the BBE is full, are they going to be able to be brought round to use it at prayer time? Are they then going to be escorted back to the JW when they're finished?

What havoc is that going to cause?

[roversmum]

Is it common practice for Muslims and Christians to worship together...surely the whole notion of a MUTI-FAITH room is a nonsense to begin with?

That's what I've been trying to find out. As a Christian it doesn't bother me but will it bother other faiths? If so, what is the answer?

[Stuart]

Jisty

If it was in a part of the ground with great swathes of empty seats, I might agree with you. It isn't. It's tokenism.

Question. If umpteen muslims (i use them as an example because, to my knowledge, they are the only ones with set prayer times) buy tickets in the JW 'cos the BBE is full, are they going to be able to be brought round to use it at prayer time? Are they then going to be escorted back to the JW when they're finished?

What havoc is that going to cause?

The club might have been better placed to open the MFR in the Jack Walker but as it's hard enough to appeal to the local muslim community as it is, they wouldn't want to be accused of exploitation as a result having it in the most expensive stand. Might be a tenuous attempt at an explanation but the club is a no win situation on this one and whichever way they had gone would have been criticised by some quarters.

As the Darwen end is mostly away supporters, it probably wasn't feasible to start their either - and I can't see how the Riverside could realistically accommodate it either. So it's BB end or bust.

You are spot on though in that it isn't possible to start escorting fans from other areas of the ground at half time - not least because of health and safety issues. Unless we have MFRs in all stands, it really isn't going to work due to the potential for the havoc you mention. I'm not sure you can really accommodate relegion at football grounds in the first place. For a lot of people football is a religion anyway so it's like trying to open up a licenced TV lounge in a mosque.

Having tried to explain it from the club's perspective, my own view is that we should keep religion (and sexual orientation and politics for that matter) out of football completely. If you want to come to Ewood it should be because you want to watch the game and support the team (we don't necessarily need bars, let alone prayer rooms - their are pubs and churches out of the ground for that). If the football was exciting enough (unlike the second half yesterday) and we had some success, we wouldn't need to be accommodating non-football issues, as we'd be filling the ground anyway. However, I DO understand the club trying to expand their fan base - just they've gone about it in a ham-fisted way. (Sorry if this post turned into a bit of a rant).

That's what I've been trying to find out. As a Christian it doesn't bother me but will it bother other faiths? If so, what is the answer?

Having tried to explain it from the club's perspective, my own view is that we should keep religion (and sexual orientation and politics for that matter) out of football completely. If you want to come to Ewood it should be because you want to watch the game and support the team (we don't necessarily need bars, let alone prayer rooms - their are pubs and churches out of the ground for that). If the football was exciting enough (unlike the second half yesterday) and we had some success, we wouldn't need to be accommodating non-football issues, as we'd be filling the ground anyway. However, I DO understand the club trying to expand their fan base - just they've gone about it in a ham-fisted way. (Sorry if this post turned into a bit of a rant).

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

my own view is that we should keep religion (and sexual orientation and politics for that matter) out of football completely.

At a guess,your view is also the view held by the vast majority...Rovers have indeed created this issue when before non existed.

Mum,I'm just not sure Muslims would happily share their prayer times with the Kuffar (non believers)....I stand to be corrected on this one.

[GiddyGoat]

The club have made a monumental cock up in the location of the facility. It plays right in to the hands of people who would obviously want to make capitol from this.

I saw and heard some really things that I haven't seen at Ewood, or anywhere else for a while. People singing "If you all hate pakis clap your hands", "We hate pakis" and worst of all a groups of ###### up lads near Mill Hill station chasing cars driven by Asians shouting abuse, some people look absolutely terrified, I'm not surprised. I was with my 8 year old son and I'm not prepared for him to be exposed to that sort of behaviour.

The clubs next move needs to be strong and decisive, they need to recognise that they have made a mistake and send out a strong message about racist and abusive behaviour.

I'm disgusted, embarrassed and ashamed that this has happened at my club and what makes it even more depressing is that it was so f*****g predictable.

[ABBEY]

lee or anyone involved @ ewood could you find out if the toilets have passed any sort of safety test as its apparent they are 100% a hazard.

and phil l ,whats wrong with people with shaved heads ???? do tell.

[SAS]

As far as I am aware Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims praying on a floor would need it to be clean, thus you cannot have people walking in with shoes on.

Out of interest did many people use the facility?

you dont ....

I will be using this room every game ithink, it has two toilets in, sack queing next door...

lee or anyone involved @ ewood could you find out if the toilets have passed any sort of safety test as its apparent they are 100% a hazard.

and phil l ,whats wrong with people with shaved heads ???? do tell.

Well people with shaved heads look like idiots

[ABBEY]

you dont ....

I will be using this room every game ithink, it has two toilets in, sack queing next door...

Well people with shaved heads look like idiots

id have aimed right when i was having my pee yesterday if you had said that then

[Drunx2002]

Just you wait, after a few losses and everyone will be cramming into the multi-faith room praying for a new right winger and some midfield creativity. We need all the help we can get!

[Paul Mellelieu]

Jan complains of tokenism, but sometimes, as PhilipL pointed out, this types of symbolic action can be important and useful. It will be tokenism if the club does this and nothing else to attract Asian fans.

Does anyone object on principle to there being a prayer room at the club?

[OscarRaven]

Jan complains of tokenism, but sometimes, as PhilipL pointed out, this types of symbolic actions can be important and useful. It will be tokenism if the club does this and nothing else to attract Asian fans.

Does anyone abject on principle to there being a prayer room at the club?

Nope, just the location and removal of plainly useful facilties for a facility that in its present location will never be used (properly). We have enough of those upstairs in the stands - corporate boxes.

[BiggusLaddus]

Does anyone object on principle to there being a prayer room at the club?

Not one bit, although I think I'd prefer it if they did just call it a prayer room. The title of multi faith room suggests to me that it was thought of as a place for muslim fans, but the club daren't actually say so. I think (not being religious myself) that a prayer room is somewhere that everyone who wanted a place to pray would go to, whereas a multi faith room has people thinking "hang on, who is this place really for?".

I think the current location is silly though. Even if there was no objection from fans I don't really think that next door to a busy gents toilets is the place I would choose to go to for some quiet contemplation. much better off in a quieter area of the ground.

And if any of our fans where singing what has been written above and there is enough evidence to see who it is, then their season tickets should be cancelled and they should be banned from the ground.

I think the best way forward for the club would be to crack down very hard on those idiots, but also accept that the location (and name??) was a mistake and move it to a more suitable location (if there actually is one available of course). This way they would be responding to the genuine concerns of the fans without pandering to scumbags or being seen to be favouring our current and potential muslim fans (which would no doubt set off more scumbags).

[Stuart]

Jan complains of tokenism, but sometimes, as PhilipL pointed out, this types of symbolic action can be important and useful. It will be tokenism if the club does this and nothing else to attract Asian fans.

Does anyone object on principle to there being a prayer room at the club?

I don't object on principle, no, but I think it's a big ask to try to arrange for people of different faiths to carry out prayers in the same place - as in a multi-faith environment. We are all very different and this is polarised when religion is brought into it. I'm not sure that a premier league football club is the best place to trial this sort of thing, particularly given the kind of publicity it could generate if it doesn't work. (Having said this, if it did work at a football club given the demographic, then it can work anywhere - and the club should be applauded for trying).

Calling it a multi-faith room is a political term - which may be why Jan's referring to this as tokenism (apologies if I'm incorrectly putting words in your mouth, Jan). Some workplaces - more public sector - adopt so called multi-faith rooms but I'm not sure these really work in the way the name implies.

Although there will always be the kind of people mentioned above in the thread who have their own policitical agendas, the major point of debate here is the location; particularly given that the people affected most are groups of males who have been drinking and/or are in that environment and now have to queue twice as long to take a leak. Turning a football stadium toilets into a multi-faith room sounds like a really extreme analogy someone would use to make a point in an argument.

All this said, there is and will continue to be a business case for trying to attract young asian (pakistani, indian, etc) to come and watch Rovers. As I said at the start though, this is a big ask.

[simdohquo]

Well i'm glad that there seemed to a lot of opinion agreeing with the original sentiments made.

There is nothing wrong, in fact it is to be commended, with Rovers providing facilities for people of many religions to practice their faith during football matches. However, in all probability, it smacks of political correctness and not a genuine desire for engagement.

The point originally made was not "not to have a prayer room"... whether for an individual religion or multi faith... but purely the location...

If they had to use one of the toliets why not halve off the ladies... sorry ladies... but there are more blokes in the BB End rather than women.

If the powers that be had asked me I would have suggested that they provide a location outside of the main stadium, there could then be a system of passes that would allow supporters from any part of the stadium to use teh facilities and not just the Lower Tier of the Blackburn End.

The person who dreamt up this idea (or at least it's location) should be sacked for being a complete and utter bozzo.

I was going to add something on my personal beliefs regarding religion BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

We Want Our Toilets Back!

[simdohquo]

All this said, there is and will continue to be a business case for trying to attract young asian (pakistani, indian, etc) to come and watch Rovers. As I said at the start though, this is a big ask.

I don't think that addign a prayer room would particularily attract young "asians"... the choice of sport for most of those from the sub continent appears to be Cricket (another game invented in this sceptre isle) That is a great generalisation...

What we and Rovers should be doing, is to convert the really despicable and waste of space, glory hunting, lightweight, unbelievers who, although having been born and bred in Blackburn (or Darwen!) support Man United, Liverpool, etc... These really are the ones that we should be targetting.. alas I suspect that most of their souls are to far in hell.