[Archived] Paul's Progress

[imy9]

If we survive this season which I fully expect, will we survive the following season with the dross Ince is bringing into the club ?

Can we expect the dross from you next season?

There are TWO players that have been sold from our starting 11 from last year, Ince has purchased a genuine right back, a DM and an attacking midfield player- something which we did not have under Hughes- why can you not give Ince a chance when Hughes was given plenty of time when he arrived, are you Mystic Meg stating that the players are dross after FOUR league games. You will disappear for a few games once we trounce Fulham on Saturday and return again when we lose, a very loyal and balanced approach you take on a club that you apparently support.

[JAL]

Can we expect the dross from you next season?

There are TWO players that have been sold from our starting 11 from last year, Ince has purchased a genuine right back, a DM and an attacking midfield player- something which we did not have under Hughes- why can you not give Ince a chance when Hughes was given plenty of time when he arrived, are you Mystic Meg stating that the players are dross after FOUR league games. You will disappear for a few games once we trounce Fulham on Saturday and return again when we lose, a very loyal and balanced approach you take on a club that you apparently support.

Three of the four games have been missed opportunies to WIN, that leaves a fantastic 25% SUCCESS RATE superb, what planet are you from!

[Hughesy]

Ince has 6 games to save his job.

If we are still in the bottom 3 at the start of November, a change will have to be made. We cannot afford to still be there at the turn of there year, on Nov 1st we'll be over halfway there, and will need to be showing signs of revival.

Not a knee-jerk reaction, just fact. We cannot afford to "give him time". It's a precious commodity that a club of our size doesn't have.

I agree with your time-frame. 10 games in is a much more fair assessment.

Id expect a minimum of 8 points from the next 5 games to be honest, but hopefully more like 10.

Next 5 games - Fulham (H), Newcastle (a), Utd (H), Bolton (a), Boro (h)

[Iceman]

I need a headache tablet, after that game. From 7th to 18th, hmmm i know its early stil, but Ince is not capable at this level. What ince should have done, which he also failed miserably with, was his selection of his backroom staff.

[imy9]

Three of the four games have been missed opportunies to WIN, that leaves a fantastic 25% SUCCESS RATE superb, what planet are you from!

I'm from the planet 'lets give the bloke a chance and not let our prejudices cloud our judgement'

You must have heard the saying 'There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics'

Your percentage breakdown is laughable because there have only been FOUR games!!

We are THREE points off a champions league place, Ince is doing a remarkable job based on that statistic is he not?

Try not to manipulate things to suit your argument.

[JAL]

I'm from the planet 'lets give the bloke a chance and not let our prejudices cloud our judgement'

You must have heard the saying 'There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics'

Your percentage breakdown is laughable because there have only been FOUR games!!

We are THREE points off a champions league place, Ince is doing a remarkable job based on that statistic is he not?

Try not to manipulate things to suit your argument.

What do you mean by prejudice ?

[imy9]

I need a headache tablet, after that game. From 7th to 18th, hmmm i know its early stil, but Ince is not capable at this level. What ince should have done, which he also failed miserably with, was his selection of his backroom staff.

You simply cannot say that after FOUR games!

If that was the case Hughes certainly not capable at this level as he took us to rock bottom in October, after thumping defeats against Chelsea and the mighty Wigan.

View things with a calm head and you will realise that it will take at least 10 games before we know which way this season will go.

Prejudice- "making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case or event."

Or as some people have already said that they have a dislike of him because as an ex player he was an antagonist.

[Iceman]

Imy was it not ince, who said to judge him after 5 games? Wel we judging him now.nothing wrong with fans voicing their concerns. However it does seem like you not allowing the next person to voice their opinions. This whole message board, has your name written all over it. In saying that i respect your opinions and views.

[JAL]

You simply cannot say that after FOUR games!

If that was the case Hughes certainly not capable at this level as he took us to rock bottom in October, after thumping defeats against Chelsea and the mighty Wigan.

View things with a calm head and you will realise that it will take at least 10 games before we know which way this season will go.

Prejudice- "making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case or event."

Or as some people have already said that they have a dislike of him because as an ex player he was an antagonist.

So you talk ******** my comments were clearly based on facts, 25% success rate is what i said what is it that you clearly fail to underrstand.

[imy9]

So you talk ******** my comments were clearly based on facts, 25% success rate is what i said what is it that you clearly fail to underrstand.

If you READ what I had said, I stated that you manipulated things to suit your purpose, I will say again we are THREE points off a champions league place, that is a fantastic start by Ince is it not?, this is based on your way of doing things.

Here is another one: Hull City have a better success rate than Man United.

"Imy was it not ince, who said to judge him after 5 games? Wel we judging him now.nothing wrong with fans voicing their concerns. However it does seem like you not allowing the next person to voice their opinions. This whole message board, has your name written all over it. In saying that i respect your opinions and views. "

Actually what Ince actually said was that IF he lost the first 5 games then he would expect people to ask questions, as we have lost 2 out of 4, that has not happened.

You can voice what you like but stating "i know its early stil, but Ince is not capable at this level." after FOUR games is ludicrous to say, even Les Reed at Charlton got more support from his fans than this!!

For clarity when I said "you simply cannot say that" that was me stating that the above comment cannot be made after four games NOT you cannot make the comment, your opinion is as valid as mine Iceman.

[JAL]

If you READ what I had said, I stated that you manipulated things to suit your purpose, I will say again we are THREE points off a champions league place, that is a fantastic start by Ince is it not?, this is based on your way of doing things.

Here is another one: Hull City have a better success rate than Man United.

"Imy was it not ince, who said to judge him after 5 games? Wel we judging him now.nothing wrong with fans voicing their concerns. However it does seem like you not allowing the next person to voice their opinions. This whole message board, has your name written all over it. In saying that i respect your opinions and views. "

Actually what Ince actually said was that IF he lost the first 5 games then he would expect people to ask questions, as we have lost 2 out of 4, that has not happened.

You can voice what you like but stating "i know its early stil, but Ince is not capable at this level." after FOUR games is ludicrous to say, even Les Reed at Charlton got more support from his fans than this!!

For clarity when I said "you simply cannot say that" that was me stating that the above comment cannot be made after four games NOT you cannot make the comment, your opinion is as valid as mine Iceman.

I'm stating facts, the facts back up three points off a champions league spot when the games roll and the success rate continues the gap will grow. Having watched and witnessed the visible eveidence of 50 % of these games there is little comfort to draw that fills me with confidence about the rest of the season.

Obviously theres a few thousand other stay away Rovers fans who think likewise and have already voted with their feet.

[imy9]

"when the games roll and the success rate continues the gap will grow."

That is not a fact is it? Similarily if Hull City's success rate grows then they will finish above Man Utd, I like your logic

[Hasta]

It makes more sense than your argument that we're only 4 points off a CL place after 4 games! If we got hammered 10-0 first game of the season would you be saying we are doing well as we're only 3 points off a CL place. Tottenham are rock bottom but they're only 6 points off a champions league place. Is Ramos doing well?

Apart from that silly argument, I agree with you that Ince needs more time before a verdict can be made on his managerial ability. Defeat against Fulham though and I'll be worried.

[JAL]

"when the games roll and the success rate continues the gap will grow."

That is not a fact is it? Similarily if Hull City's success rate grows then they will finish above Man Utd, I like your logic

Purely focusing on Rovers imy9, if Rovers continue with a 25% success rate the gap will grow so much that Rovers will be so far away from a champions league spot come the end of season .

[imy9]

Thats not what you said though is it? You said the success rate continues, Mystic Meg working overtime again is she?

I dont think we will finish in the top 4 this year but to state we have a 25% success rate after FOUR games is a silly time to manipulate statistics as shown by me.

Hasta- I was merely reflecting how stats can be manipulated and are manipulated by people on here, the table will mean nothing until at least 10 games have passed, Ince's signings have settled into the team and we see the results of this!

[allanncd]

Relegation this season and I'd advise any punter to put their money on it now. All the telltale signs are there. Just as in previous relegations 1965/66, 1970/71, 1978/79 and 1998/99 Rovers are coming off the back of a relatively successful season (all top half finishes) but with signs of a fall-away at the end. As then the sense of complacency - at the top end of the club rather than among the fans - is all too evident. The loss of a key play-maker (Douglas in 1965, Kerr in 1970 and almost everyone with ability in 1998). The loss of a successful manager is always a relegation trigger - just look at Charlton or Notlob. Ince looks poorly equipped to lead a relegation fight as I suspect he will just look for scapegoats and excuses (the latter has already started). How can he bemoan the size of the squad when it has greater numbers than at anytime since the days of Uncle Jack and certainly more than MH ever enjoyed? He has filled out the squad with journeymen and has-beens not good enough to make an impact at this level. I don't believe he has a clue as to his beat 11 - always a bad sign. Midfield is just a muddle that owes more to Buggins-turn than any semblance of strategy. Why was a manager appointed who is clueless in the transfer market and failed to replace the teams creative fulcrum with nearly 2 months to do so. I could go but I'll leave others to fill in some of the otherb glaring inadequacies.

[RovertheHill]

I do hope you are wrong and I think you will be. It's interesting but I suspect that Ince's best side (when everyone is fit) is only going to be 2 players different to Hughes's. I was upset when we didn't replace Bentley but the constraints we operate under made that a very difficult proposition.

[92er]

After Ince was appointed, JW said at the press conference something along the lines that this would not be a season of consolidation but would rather we would be looking to build on last season's success.

It is now somewhat worrying when Ince is saying in the press that there is no shame in being trounced by a very good Arsenal side but "our priority is to beat opponents like Fulham and Bolton." As the Daily Telegraph says today-"It seemed an unduly modest aim for a club that finished seventh,"

[John]

Link to that article below.

There was no shame, he stressed, in being trounced by such a good side, but their priority was to beat opponents “like Fulham and Bolton.”

[Frisky Jim]

Ince is a lightweight who should be kicked out before the damage becomes irreparable.

Show some backbone, Williams, and sack the useless git.

[LeChuck]

Link to that article below.

There was no shame, he stressed, in being trounced by such a good side, but their priority was to beat opponents “like Fulham and Bolton.”

That's such a depressing thing to read.

One thing Hughes was unanimously praised for was the change in attitude he brought compared to the Souness era - gone were the days of 'we just want to survive', he only ever talked about us challenging at the top end of the table.

Ince is already making excuses for himself, and by dampening expectations he's just giving himself a cushion for when he fails. Hull and Stoke will be aiming to beat the likes of Bolton and Fulham, I expect a little more from a club that's been in the top 10 for three consecutive seasons.

I had a horrible feeling that Hughes' good work would be slowly undone by Ince, I just had no idea it would happen this quickly. It's not too late for Ince to sort it out, but he needs to stop a few things immediately.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Relegation this season and I'd advise any punter to put their money on it now. All the telltale signs are there. Just as in previous relegations 1965/66, 1970/71, 1978/79 and 1998/99 Rovers are coming off the back of a relatively successful season (all top half finishes) but with signs of a fall-away at the end. As then the sense of complacency - at the top end of the club rather than among the fans - is all too evident. The loss of a key play-maker (Douglas in 1965, Kerr in 1970 and almost everyone with ability in 1998). The loss of a successful manager is always a relegation trigger - just look at Charlton or Notlob. Ince looks poorly equipped to lead a relegation fight as I suspect he will just look for scapegoats and excuses (the latter has already started). How can he bemoan the size of the squad when it has greater numbers than at anytime since the days of Uncle Jack and certainly more than MH ever enjoyed? He has filled out the squad with journeymen and has-beens not good enough to make an impact at this level. I don't believe he has a clue as to his beat 11 - always a bad sign. Midfield is just a muddle that owes more to Buggins-turn than any semblance of strategy. Why was a manager appointed who is clueless in the transfer market and failed to replace the teams creative fulcrum with nearly 2 months to do so. I could go but I'll leave others to fill in some of the otherb glaring inadequacies.

I'm with you on this matey, I remember all those relegations like they were yesterday. I'd be making inquiries now- Big Sam ? Curbishley ? Got to be better than the chancer we've got at the moment.

[roverich]

I don't think we'll gain anything by getting rid of Ince so early except instability. Trying to remain positive, Arsenal can thrash four or five past anyone (outside the top four) on a good day and West Ham have always been a bogey team, especially away from home. The nature of the defeats was very disappointing but I had those two games written off before we kicked a ball. Everton result was spectacularly good and unexpected but we played poorly against Hull. Our opening fixtures looked very difficult to me and I only expected us to pick up four points from these opening four games, I'm only really surprised by the number of goals we've conceded.

I don't think it's fair to compare Ince to Hughes as we all knew we were losing someone who had become an excellent and proven premiership manager. The bottom line for me is that I don't believe any of the other managerial candidates (the serious ones; not ones that were never acually linked to the club, like Bilic) would have had a better start. I think it's particularly unfair to ask why a manager who is clueless in the transfer market was appointed considering that Ince has infinitely more experience in the transfer than Hughes had before joining us. I reckon the majority of fans at least recognise that if Curbishley or Allardyce was in charge and made a similarly poor start then the same people would be saying Ince would have been a better choice.

Fulham coming up and a good performance is certainly needed but more than that we need a result and we desperately require a clean sheet. Fulham have had a dream start to the season being beaten only by the team we played so poorly against. If this tells us one thing it's that there are twenty good teams in the premiership and we must take them all very seriously. A win this weekend is not to be expected but will be an excellent achievement requiring Rovers to be on top form so the team is going to need some support. If you write them off now they will go down so let's try and give them a little self belief by showing we still believe.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Fulham coming up and a good performance is certainly needed but more than that we need a result and we desperately require a clean sheet. Fulham have had a dream start to the season being beaten only by the team we played so poorly against. If this tells us one thing it's that there are twenty good teams in the premiership and we must take them all very seriously. A win this weekend is not to be expected but will be an excellent achievement requiring Rovers to be on top form so the team is going to need some support. If you write them off now they will go down so let's try and give them a little self belief by showing we still believe.

I agree we need to focus on getting a clean sheet against Fulham. Conceeding all these goals will not help both the defense and more importantly Robbo's confidence. Robbo had a pretty decent game against le Arse, but he must be wondering why we let in four goals.

I am slightly encouraged by Nelsen's comments in the LET about us playing 'too cavalier'. Clearly from an attacking perspective we are looking more dangerous as we really cut Arsenal apart at times but at the same time are looking shaky at the back. Hopefully the captain's comments will be picked up by Ince /or Ince realises that this viewpoint is correct and look to get back to basics.

Perhaps we should look to playing a more defensive formation, 5 in midfield using a holding midfielder and look to protect our defense. If we get a couple of clean sheets it should boost Robbo's and the back four's confidence and play them into some form.

[Tris]

Everything in life is relative, and no more so than in league football.

Reading through the messageboard throws up every conceivable reason under the sun for our lowly position after four games, and every conceivable way out, and everyone or everything which can be blamed, gets blamed somewhere on this MB!

If you look at the club called Tottenham Hotspur, every conceivable reason can be thrown out of court.

First and foremost, there will be people who say Spurs are miles better than us on paper and will therefore finish above us after 38 games. You lot can play with the people who already have Rovers relegated after just 4 games. You're probably the same people anyway so will end up tying yourselves in knots.

Secondly those who say we sold our best two players. Oops - so did Spurs. For a sum of money which would just about BUY Blackburn Rovers from the trustees by the way.

Thirdly those who say Rovers made no signing to replace Bentley, and didn't spend the "Bentley kitty" this summer. Ouch. Have you SEEN what they got for their 50 MILLION quid?!!

Which brings us conveniently onto those who slate Robinson. Oh dear, take a look at what Spurs' new No. 1 did tonight, the guy who cost more than double what Robinson cost us. Nice shiny Brazilian with a nice shiny name - human keeper just like all the other 19. Including Brad, who will not come through the 38 game season without criticism.

Spurs were in a bad way this time last year, so they broke the bank for a world class manager. He's now had a year to bed in, impose his methods, buy his own players, make his mark. Ramos is truly world class - I expect a huge majority of this MB would have wanted him as first choice to replace Hughes, had Hughes departed 15 months ago rather than 3 months ago.

And Spurs of course are big time and big revenue. Their catering and merchandise turnover dwarfs what Rovers take from Season Tickets AND match day sales combined. TV companies are all over them for their UEFA fixtures, whereas Rovers had to go cap in hand, and shift away match times to suit German TV.

Teams on paper don't win games. Big time charlies don't win cups. In this league, 50 million quid guarantees nothing. "Failed" England keepers are probably no worse than the expensive "big names" from abroad. World Class managers with 12 months to get things right can lag behind the "4th dvision posse" who have only had a couple of months.

And crucially - MONEY can't buy you love.

Blackburn Rovers have done so well in the last two decades, it's sometimes hard to knuckle down and get back to basics. That's what is needed now - a new regime taking a bit of time to bed in, and everyone actually wants the best outcome. Home wins, good footy, cup runs and the best league placing possible.

Rovers, Ince and the players need support to get that - everyone pulling together behind whoever is running the show - whatever has been spent or not spent - not caring about what the rest of the world is saying. Batten down the hatches, and forget everyone else. Ewood Park needs to back the team.

If laughing at Spurs is the way to get people behind the club, then let's laugh at Spurs ... then stuff Fulham Everton and Newcastle and get this season up and running.

BUT BACK THE TEAM, MANAGER AND PLAYERS - let's leave the obitiaries, wailing and gnashing of teeth for the real problem times??!