[Archived] Paul's Progress

[thenodrog]

One of the best squads in the country would not lose to Larissa, Coventry and relegated Birmingham on the last day of the season.

1. Personally I thought Larissa deserved their success through sheer hard work and the best away fans that I can remember.

2. Have you forgotten that most of the Prem were turfed out of the FA cup in shock results last year? Liverpools squad was crap too was it?

3. Brad waited 37 games to have a 'mare' so you've no need to worry that wont happen again

[LeChuck]

A manager needs time to build a team. If Hughes was such a good manager why did he lose 4-0 in his first few games then make them play better later on in the season. Why didn't they play well as soon as he came in??

BECAUSE HE NEEDED TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT WAS REQUIRED TO TURN THINGS AROUND

Hughes inherited a terrible squad that was obviously going to take a while to turn around.

Ince didn't have anything to turn around, every problem we have is of his own making. If he'd just kept steering us in the same direction we'd finish in the top 10.

I DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

[thenodrog]

Hughes inherited a terrible squad that was obviously going to take a while to turn around.

Ince didn't have anything to turn around, every problem we have is of his own making. If he'd just kept steering us in the same direction we'd finish in the top 10.

I DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

Goldfish memories mate.

Hughes managed to turn it around. There is nothing to suggest Ince cannot do the same

Well imo there is a lot less to suggest that he can.

[RevidgeBlue]

Ince didn't have anything to turn around, every problem we have is of his own making. If he'd just kept steering us in the same direction we'd finish in the top 10.

Not sure I agree with that, after the first ten or eleven games of last season we were fairly poor on the whole, especially at home.

Savage was wrongly sold imo and not adequately replaced and Tugay should probably have been replaced 3-4 seasons ago.

I will admit we look worse defensively than we did previously though. Let's see if Nigel can work his magic in only 2 days per week.

[LeChuck]

Savage was wrongly sold imo

I'm not sure how you can say that given his performances since than and the fee we got for him. The problem was he wasn't adequately replaced...but I still believe that situation was the straw the broke the camel's back for Hughes...he had to sign Vogel after the window had shut because the funds weren't there to get the calibre of player he wanted.

Whatever the opinion on the performances last season, we finished in 7th place. The only outfield first-team player to leave the club since then is Bentley, the only real trouble Ince should have had this summer is replacing that creativity in the side...which with a reported £20 million transfer budget shouldn't have been too difficult. Every other problem we have has been created by Ince, because they haven't been there for the last three seasons.

[American]

2. Have you forgotten that most of the Prem were turfed out of the FA cup in shock results last year? Liverpools squad was crap too was it?

Nah, just their manager!

[RevidgeBlue]

, the only real trouble Ince should have had this summer is replacing that creativity in the side...which with a reported £20 million transfer budget shouldn't have been too difficult.

Hmmm...........if we ever really had anything like 20m available which I severely doubt. We only have nicko's take on that from a point Februaryish pre Bentley sale when MH was in charge. (no slight on nicko intended)

Another thing this season is that McCarthy (having been handed a new contract by Sparky) has waddled in looking in Michelin man which isn't exactly helpful. He wasn't great last season but at least you could expect him to be in reasonable physical shape.

[Gamst]

Not sure I agree with that, after the first ten or eleven games of last season we were fairly poor on the whole, especially at home.

Savage was wrongly sold imo and not adequately replaced and Tugay should probably have been replaced 3-4 seasons ago.

I will admit we look worse defensively than we did previously though. Let's see if Nigel can work his magic in only 2 days per week.

Dont agree about Savage. I think it was a master stroke by the club to get decent money for Sav. It looked obvious to me that he had lost it after his injury and at his age im sure he will never get it back. His poor form has continued for Derby and he is not a starter now in the Championship. Would agree that neither Hughes nor Ince have managed to replace Sav or Tugay adequately. We have an abundance of midfielders but none of them are good enough in my opinion. Lots of squad players.

[Drakefyre]

I think the main issues are that we have failed to replace Bentley (Hughes would not have started the season with Bentley either) and that the defending is shambolic. The first is the combined fault of Ince and JW, and the second lies half on Ince and half on the players.

I still believe that the team and Ince will come good, but the defense does need sorting out, and we need to bring the creativity to the squad from somewhere - without Dunny we've looked terrible this season.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I think the main issues are that we have failed to replace Bentley (Hughes would not have started the season with Bentley either) and that the defending is shambolic. The first is the combined fault of Ince and JW, and the second lies half on Ince and half on the players.

I still believe that the team and Ince will come good, but the defense does need sorting out, and we need to bring the creativity to the squad from somewhere - without Dunny we've looked terrible this season.

IMO the main issue is not so much the replacement of Bentley but the glaring reality of how much we relied upon him and how bereft we are are of any other creativity.

This leads to the question what the heck is the rest of the midfield (team) doing and shows just how predictable and one dimensional we actually were /still are?

[thenodrog]

Dont agree about Savage. I think it was a master stroke by the club to get decent money for Sav. It looked obvious to me that he had lost it after his injury and at his age im sure he will never get it back. His poor form has continued for Derby and he is not a starter now in the Championship. Would agree that neither Hughes nor Ince have managed to replace Sav or Tugay adequately. We have an abundance of midfielders but none of them are good enough in my opinion. Lots of squad players.

I'll go with that too Gamst. Especially the last bit. Hughes frequently said (and usuually did) only bring in players to improve the team. By bringing in new first teamers the old ones by definition improved the squad. Bringing in players and wasting resources simply to to strengthen the squad is an idiots way forward unless for some reason they are planning to allow BRFC to play with 13 or 14 players.

[CrazyIvan]

http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/New...1397536,00.html

Should be interesting to see if there is any improvement tomorrow...

http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/New...1397536,00.html

Brett echoes what a lot of us have said... 10-15 games and see where we stand.

[waggy]

Hughes inherited a terrible squad that was obviously going to take a while to turn around.

Ince didn't have anything to turn around, every problem we have is of his own making. If he'd just kept steering us in the same direction we'd finish in the top 10.

I DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

so friedal and bentarse leaving was down to ince

[gumboots]

so friedal and bentarse leaving was down to ince

I don't think all our problems are of Ince's own making anyway. Some are just down to the fact that our manager left and would have occurred no matter who we brought in. Players are creatures of habit and it always takes time for them to adjust and some just don't or don't want to. Some are down to Hughes last season. Some are down to the age process and players losing form. some are down to players showing their big time Charlie side at the wrong moment for the team and the club. some are due to transfer speculation and rumours and then some are down to Ince and JW. There are probably other contributing factors too like the fact we don't have much cash, like some players didn't want to come to us, like fans have huge expectations nowadays and life has to bring instant gratification and any number of small things like the tea lady changing the brand or something like that. There is never one cause - it's always a chain of events and circumstances.

[AggyBlue]

Ince didn't have anything to turn around, every problem we have is of his own making.

That's wrong and unfair on Ince.

He's inherited a very average squad brimming with below average players befitting of a top half Premiership club. It was plain for all to see that six or seven better quality players were needed if we were to maintain a top half league finish.

[Billy Castell]

It doesn't help that Hughes took all the coaching and scouting staff. Barring Mathias, most of the coaches have probably not worked together, let alone worked with Ince as a manager. Perhaps this is affecting our tactics and our sudden defensive ineptitude.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I don't think all our problems are of Ince's own making anyway. Some are just down to the fact that our manager left and would have occurred no matter who we brought in. Players are creatures of habit and it always takes time for them to adjust and some just don't or don't want to. Some are down to Hughes last season. Some are down to the age process and players losing form. some are down to players showing their big time Charlie side at the wrong moment for the team and the club. some are due to transfer speculation and rumours and then some are down to Ince and JW. There are probably other contributing factors too like the fact we don't have much cash, like some players didn't want to come to us, like fans have huge expectations nowadays and life has to bring instant gratification and any number of small things like the tea lady changing the brand or something like that. There is never one cause - it's always a chain of events and circumstances.

You are correct in all that you say, but sometimes you can be in the wrong palce at the wrong time. A team has a shelf life and it could be Hughes' team's had expired. Hughes saw this and realised there was precious little he could do about it. He cleared off at the first opportunity before his reputation was destroyed unlike Souness before him. He left it probably two seasons too long.

Ince has posssibly walked into an accident waiting to happen. Time will tell if he can do anything about it but he has to act now to prevent the prophets of doom becoming reality.

[67splitscreen]

You are correct in all that you say, but sometimes you can be in the wrong palce at the wrong time. A team has a shelf life and it could be Hughes' team's had expired. Hughes saw this and realised there was precious little he could do about it. He cleared off at the first opportunity before his reputation was destroyed unlike Souness before him. He left it probably two seasons too long.

Ince has posssibly walked into an accident waiting to happen. Time will tell if he can do anything about it but he has to act now to prevent the prophets of doom becoming reality.

Agree and the situation would only be compounded by an early exit.

[Billy Castell]

So Ince is in the position Souness was in at Liverpool after Kenny? Let's hope he does better than our ex-manager then.

[gumboots]

It doesn't help that Hughes took all the coaching and scouting staff. Barring Mathias, most of the coaches have probably not worked together, let alone worked with Ince as a manager. Perhaps this is affecting our tactics and our sudden defensive ineptitude.

That's probably true. Usually there's one old timer on hand to put the manager in the picture and even if they move on at some point in the first season they are there to steady things at the start. Hughes had got rid of Tony Parkes and everyone else was his appointment. Ince said he was relying on friedel to put him in the picture then Friedel decided he wanted to go. all Ince has to rely on is the handful of senior players like emerton and the new coaching staff he's brought in. Perhaps this is as much an explanation for our poor start as any of the Ince is incompetent theories.

[LeChuck]

That's wrong and unfair on Ince.

He's inherited a very average squad brimming with below average players befitting of a top half Premiership club. It was plain for all to see that six or seven better quality players were needed if we were to maintain a top half league finish.

I really don't know how you can figure the side that finished 7th, 10th, 6th needs six or seven better quality players to maintain that form. The defence is an absolute shambles at the moment, and the midfield (particularly the centre) has absolutely no shape or solidity about it. Those problems are of Ince's making because they weren't there under Hughes.

so friedal and bentarse leaving was down to ince

I didn't say it was his fault, I said the other problems. I was trying to make the point that right wing should be our only problem on the pitch at the moment because the rest of the side is the same as the one that finished 7th last season. Bellamy was arguably more influential than Bentley in his season here, and Hughes managed to pass the test of adequately replacing him so that the team didn't suffer. Ince has so far spectacularly failed to do the same, in fact he's just ignored it altogether.

I'm sound far more anti-Ince than I intend to here, I do think it's possible he can turn it round. However, I just think it's completely disrespectful to the work Hughes did here to suggest all these problems would have existed anyway. I struggle to find any logic at all in that because, as I said, Bentley is the only first team outfield player to leave from the side that finished 7th.

[T4E]

That's wrong and unfair on Ince.

He's inherited a very average squad brimming with below average players befitting of a top half Premiership club. It was plain for all to see that six or seven better quality players were needed if we were to maintain a top half league finish.

An average squad with below average players that Hughes continually kept amongst the top 10 teams in the country. Are you saying that Ince doesn't have the ability to do the same? If not, whats the difference?

[MCMC1875]

Ince has just been on SSN. He looked worried and sounded very nervy.

[waggy]

it's well documented rovers went for PENNANT,they must have thought they had a great chance off getting him,but he wanted 60k a week and now he can't get in the liverpoo squad

[67splitscreen]

Ince has just been on SSN. He looked worried and sounded very nervy.

When has he been any different, He's like a fish out of water, But I'll still support him to the end, because I support BRFC till I die.