[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Tris]

It is no good spending for the sake of it, - agreed Phil. Nor have I any idea who we should go and sign, but I wouldn't have would I, I'm not a party to the kind of football circles who DO know who's available. That's why we pay managers a fortune.

To my mind, the risks of spending available cash, are far less than not spending it.

Clubs should always be looking to improve their team.

You are 100% spot on. I'm yet to see any evidence of "keeping our powder dry" reaping any benefits whatsoever.

You both need to take the blinkers off. Take the league we are competing in, the one below, and the closest outside the English pyramid. PL + Championship + SPL ... 56 football clubs looking to improve, sign better players. Without even being a party to Den's "football circles" are you seething with envy at anyone else's signings?

Do you think the other 55 clubs in those leagues have also somehow missed good affordable players that Ince (and Hughes before him) should have identified?

Spurs have spent 77 million this year, Everton spent 21 million in just one day - are they really better off than we are with our money still in the bank?

[LeChuck]

Spurs have spent 77 million this year

Doesn't really tell the whole story that Tris. Their net spend this year must be close to zero after the sales of Berbatov, Keane, Robinson, Chimbonda, Tainio, Malbranque and Kaboul. They're not in a good position at the moment, but they'd be in a far worse one if they hadn't spent money.

[BuckyRover]

That has mostly come from the sale of Berbatov, which they did not want to do.

[LeChuck]

Well, Keane was £20 million. Chimbonda + Tainio + Malbranque is rumoured to be around the £10 million mark, and I doubt Kaboul came in at less than £5 million.

Berbatov was the single biggest fee, but he alone doesn't make up even half of their total income this summer.

[bazza]

I reckon Paul Ince is becoming a happier manager day by day. Because he must realise what a well run club Blackburn Rovers is under the chairmanship of John Williams. He is given full authority to "manage" the club his way.

Just look at other clubs in the Premier League and the trouble they are in due to poor direction and meddling from the owners or boards of directors.

Also I think players like RSC and Warnock must be glad they stayed when they see Bentley struggling in a team that are not as well managed as Rovers. Emerton made the right decision to stay at Rovers when his Aussie team mate, Neill, wanted away to bright lights and glory.

We may be a small town club with low attendances and a tight budget but big is not always better and money isn't everything. Happiness is all you want in life and I think happiness is what Ince and his squad are beginning to feel.

[BuckyRover]

Modric 16.5m

Bentley 17m

Pavlyuchenko 14m

Corluka 8.5m

Dos Santos 4.7m (rising to 8.6m)

Sub-Total = 60.7m

+ Gomes (Undisclosed fee - rumoured to be circa 10m)

= Approx 70.7m

Plus quite a few young players signed for undisclosed fees.

That's a lot of money. They certainly did not recoup all of that.

[LeChuck]

I thought Gomes was comfirmed at around £7 million? The only young player I'm aware of (and without finding anything to the contrary in a quick search) is Bostock, who came in at £700k or something like that.

I did forget the £2.5 million for Anthony Gardner and undisclosed fee for Young-Pyo to add to their incomings. Added to what I listed earlier and it is approaching £70 million. I have no idea how you can 'certainly' say they didn't recoup it, the figures suggest there's a distinct possibility that this was the case.

I don't think they wanted it to be the case though, they have said numerous times that selling Berbatov at the list minute didn't give them time to buy a replacement...so if that had happened a few days earlier then they'd probably be well in to the red.

[BuckyRover]

Tottenham Hotspur Transfers:

Players In:

Luka Modric - (Dinamo Zagreb - Spurs) £16.6million

Giovani Dos Santos (FC Barcelona - Spurs) £4.7million

Paul-Jose Mpoku (Standard Liege - Spurs) Undisclosed Fee

Mirko Ranieri (Perugia - Spurs) Undisclosed Fee

John Bostock (Crystal Palace - Spurs) £700,000

David Bentley (Blackburn Rovers - Tottenham Hotspur) Undisclosed Fee

César Sánchez Domínguez (Real Zaragoza - Tottenham Hotspur) Undisclosed Fee

Heurelho Gomes (PSV Eindhoven Tottenham Hotspur) Undisclosed Fee

Roman Pavlyuchenko (Spartak Moscow - Tottenham Hotspur) £14million

Vedran Corluka (Man City - Tottenham Hotspur) £8.5million

Fraizer Campbell (Manchester United - Tottenham Hotspur) Season-Long Loan Deal

Players Out:

Radek Cerny - (Formerly on loan from Slavia Prague – QPR) Free Transfer

Leigh Mills (Tottenham Hotspur - Brentford) On Loan

Simon ####### (Tottenham Hotspur - Leyton Orient) On Loan

Joe Martin (Tottenham Hotspur - Blackpool) Undisclosed Fee

Tommy Forecast (Tottenham Hotspur - Southampton) Undisclosed Fee

Jake Livermore (Tottenham Hotspur - Crewe Alexandra) Six Month Loan

Teemu Tainio (Tottenham Hotspur - Sunderland) Undisclosed Fee

Paul Robinson (Tottenham Hotspur - Blackburn) £3.5million

Pascal Chimbonda (Tottenham Hotspur - Sunderland) Undisclosed Fee

Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur - Liverpool) £19million

Steed Malbranque (Tottenham Hotspur - Sunderland) Undisclosed Fee

Younes Kaboul (Tottenham Hotspur - Portsmouth] Undisclosed Fee

Anthony Gardner (Tottenham Hotspur - Hull City) £2.5million

Tomas Pekhart (Tottenham Hotspur - Southampton) Loan Deal

Charlie Daniels (Tottenham Hotspur - Gillingham) Loan Deal

Young-Pyo Lee (Tottenham Hotspur - Borussia Dortmund) Undisclosed Fee

Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham Hotspur - Man Utd) £30.75million

[LeChuck]

That didn't really help at all, apart from adding two 16 year olds to the incomings. Both figures are still coming in at around £70 million.

I'm not really sure what the point of all this is, or how it ended up in Paul's Progress, so I'll leave it there.

[AndyC]

We may be a small town club with low attendances and a tight budget but big is not always better and money isn't everything. Happiness is all you want in life and I think happiness is what Ince and his squad are beginning to feel.

amen to that!

[mark]

If you were a young person entering the world of work and a small employer gives you a big break by hiring you to work in your chosen field, is the first thing your would do, ask what the yearly budget is and then spend it all on upgrading something within the company that would make the company "better"?

Keep it in mind that you aren't even sure what needs upgrading at this point.

Personally, I would stay for a few months and work out exactly where the money needs to be spent before jumping head first in.

But that's just me

You are 100% spot on

[broadsword]

I don't think the point is necessarily that we haven't spent big money, but that big money isn't there for us if we need it.

Heaven forbid we find ourselves in the bottom 3, but if we were to be there at Christmas and we still had a long injury list, it appears we would be shopping at Aldi again in the transfer window.

But again, this is on the assumtpion that Ince wasn't being deliberately misleading about the budget.

It all reminds me of the days when Leicester were in the Premiership, and Martin O'Neill used to say that they were defying gravity. Well you can't beat gravity forever.

[philipl]

I disagree, big money by Rovers' standards is there. Let's see what the accounts show when they come out.

[den]

You both need to take the blinkers off. Take the league we are competing in, the one below, and the closest outside the English pyramid. PL + Championship + SPL ... 56 football clubs looking to improve, sign better players. Without even being a party to Den's "football circles" are you seething with envy at anyone else's signings?

Do you think the other 55 clubs in those leagues have also somehow missed good affordable players that Ince (and Hughes before him) should have identified?

Spurs have spent 77 million this year, Everton spent 21 million in just one day - are they really better off than we are with our money still in the bank?

You're getting too defensive of Ince, Tris.

I couldn't give two hoots for how Spurs or Everton have squandered their money, - my point is that money is far better being spent on a quality player, rather than sitting in the bank. That was my reply to a poster suggesting that "we're OK at the moment", no need to spend anything. I repeat, strengthen whenever possible, - it's vital that you don't stand still. Can't believe anyone thinks otherwise. This is the Premier league we're in, not the fourth division where no-one spends cash.

You prefer not signing players, when money's available, just in case it's spent poorly?

[ultrablue]

You're getting too defensive of Ince, Tris.

I couldn't give two hoots for how Spurs or Everton have squandered their money, - my point is that money is far better being spent on a quality player, rather than sitting in the bank. That was my reply to a poster suggesting that "we're OK at the moment", no need to spend anything. I repeat, strengthen whenever possible, - it's vital that you don't stand still. Can't believe anyone thinks otherwise. This is the Premier league we're in, not the fourth division where no-one spends cash.

You prefer not signing players, when money's available, just in case it's spent poorly?

Short answer yes

Slightly longer answer, I agree with Tris- the money may be there, the quality players don't appear to be, and any major signing should be steered clear of in January. Ince inherited a squad, tweaked it here and there with some signings. Hopefully we'll back his targets in the summer.

[Hughesy]

I disagree, big money by Rovers' standards is there. Let's see what the accounts show when they come out.

When is that Philip?

[den]

Short answer yes

Slightly longer answer, I agree with Tris- the money may be there, the quality players don't appear to be, and any major signing should be steered clear of in January. Ince inherited a squad, tweaked it here and there with some signings. Hopefully we'll back his targets in the summer.

It's a non-sensical answer though, all based on your opinion that there are no good players available anywhere in the world? There are always good players available. You, or should I say the manager, must be able to find them. Being unable to find good players when money is available, is a bad position for any manager to be in.

That's still not understanding the basic point that money is no use to a football club in the bank. Maybe you can explain how it is?

[broadsword]

Money in the bank doesn't win points, but at the same time I don't think it's as easy as abracadabra getting quality players in.

A lot of money in the Premiership is wasted on over-valued players. Decent players who are genuinely worth (if anyone could be worth ...) £10 million are few and far between.

My bone of contention is that Ince said we couldn't afford to spend 10 or 15 mill on one player. I'd imagine 15 mill would be beyond us anyway, but 10 mill isn't that far off our record signing, and given our transfer receipts and compensation, I really can't believe that 10 mill is beyond us, if a player came along at that value who'd genuinely improve us.

So, was Ince being canny or honest, that was my question.

[ultrablue]

The transfer window has altered the arguement I think. Sure managers are always looking at strengthening the squad, they would be mad not to. But making signing in January, a risky investment in central midfield for example, could be harmful.

Money in the bank is a positive thing when you wait to find the right player at the right time. Ince thought he had enough in the squad to bide his time a bit. His tactical management over the last few games, especially coping with midfiled casualities, has left things looking a bit rosier than they did on deadline day. It doesnt mean he's not looking to spend, rather spend wisely.

[Ronin]

You are 100% spot on

Definitely agree with that too.

[den]

The transfer window has altered the arguement I think. Sure managers are always looking at strengthening the squad, they would be mad not to. But making signing in January, a risky investment in central midfield for example, could be harmful.

Money in the bank is a positive thing when you wait to find the right player at the right time. Ince thought he had enough in the squad to bide his time a bit. His tactical management over the last few games, especially coping with midfiled casualities, has left things looking a bit rosier than they did on deadline day. It doesnt mean he's not looking to spend, rather spend wisely.

What I'm saying is in danger of being twisted.

Let me put it another way. Let's say that Rovers have done well in the league come the end of the season. There are no apparent weaknesses in the squad. Ince, or any other manager [to stop people becoming paranoid whenever there's chance of some criticism coming along], is happy with his squad. However, he's told there's ten million to spend. I'm saying that any real manager would take that opportunity of bringing in another quality player, rather than taking the "we're OK at the moment, we'll keep the money in the bank" stance. Build from strength, don't wait until things are changing for the worse. No-one knows what the future holds, so strengthen whenever possible.

It's so obvious really.

[T4E]

You both need to take the blinkers off. Take the league we are competing in, the one below, and the closest outside the English pyramid. PL + Championship + SPL ... 56 football clubs looking to improve, sign better players. Without even being a party to Den's "football circles" are you seething with envy at anyone else's signings?

Do you think the other 55 clubs in those leagues have also somehow missed good affordable players that Ince (and Hughes before him) should have identified?

Spurs have spent 77 million this year, Everton spent 21 million in just one day - are they really better off than we are with our money still in the bank?

Ah. So in the words of Homer Simpson - "Never do anything, then you'll never make mistakes".

To use other clubs balls ups (especially Spurs!) as a reason not to look to improve is crazy.

[LDRover]

The transfer window has altered the arguement I think. Sure managers are always looking at strengthening the squad, they would be mad not to. But making signing in January, a risky investment in central midfield for example, could be harmful.

Money in the bank is a positive thing when you wait to find the right player at the right time. Ince thought he had enough in the squad to bide his time a bit. His tactical management over the last few games, especially coping with midfiled casualities, has left things looking a bit rosier than they did on deadline day. It doesnt mean he's not looking to spend, rather spend wisely.

You seem to be advocating that because we seem to be doing OK now that it's better to hold on to the money but there's a precedent here that ended up hurting us badly.

If you think back to the 'if it aint broke don't fix it' quote from Ray Harford after winning the league who 'strengthened' a Prem League winning squad with the signing of Matty Holmes. We then had a dire early season, then panic bought non-entities like Graeme Fenton and ended up losing the greatest striker in the world at that time (to my mind due to a lack of ambition as much as anything else). This, for me was a situation from which we never really recovered and to my mind could have been avoided if we'd bought from the position of strength we were in after winning the league.

Should we still be in a reasonable position in the league when the window re-opens we must recruit in key areas to keep the momentum.

[den]

You seem to be advocating that because we seem to be doing OK now that it's better to hold on to the money but there's a precedent here that ended up hurting us badly.

If you think back to the 'if it aint broke don't fix it' quote from Ray Harford after winning the league who 'strengthened' a Prem League winning squad with the signing of Matty Holmes. We then had a dire early season, then panic bought non-entities like Graeme Fenton and ended up losing the greatest striker in the world at that time (to my mind due to a lack of ambition as much as anything else). This, for me was a situation from which we never really recovered and to my mind could have been avoided if we'd bought from the position of strength we were in after winning the league.

Should we still be in a reasonable position in the league when the window re-opens we must recruit in key areas to keep the momentum.

Absolutely LD. You put it better than me.

[ultrablue]

You've got a point den, if its the right deal any manager would want to get quality in at any time. But when you look at what 10 million bought you last summer, you can't blame people for being wary. Hopefully some contracts are ending soon and we can sign a few new realistically priced rovers.