[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Mr Creosote]

Turn it around and yes maybe I have to question myself am I the idiot sat here watching a passionless display from a successful blagger.

In English please.

[JAL]

Anyone who has actually watched King Carlos play will probably agree that he isnt ready just yet, in terms of strength and pace and therefore Rovers appear to be developing him, the same way they did with Pedersen at 1st.

As for Grella - he is an international player, so he cant be as bad as you make out.

Were you also one of those calling for Hughes' head when we lost 2 games 4-0 on the bounce?

Hughesy I'm not saying Grella is a bad player i've never seen him its what someone said to me about him.

Maybe i'm guilty of expecting more than is possible but i do want more from the Rovers team as LD Rover points in one of his posts it has been achievable in the past.

[BuckyRover]

Played for West Ham, Man United, Inter, Liverpool, as well as England.

Saved Macclesfield from relegation, won promotion and a trophy for MK Dons.

The new Oxford english definition of Blagger

[Jan]

Anyone who has actually watched King Carlos play will probably agree that he isnt ready just yet, in terms of strength and pace and therefore Rovers appear to be developing him, the same way they did with Pedersen at 1st.

As for Grella - he is an international player, so he cant be as bad as you make out.

Were you also one of those calling for Hughes' head when we lost 2 games 4-0 on the bounce?

How many times do you have to be told that was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

Then we had been flushed down the loo by someone who was becoming an excrement of a manager. We had only Dickov as a striker and the manager had taken over out of the transfer window.

This time we have a manager who came in nearly at the start of the transfer window, after we'd finished 7th, faffed around chasing Robbie Fowler and Keith Andrews with his tongue hanging out, conveniently forgetting that we'd sold our most creative player and the only person in the squad capable of playing right wing well.

THAT's why we were prepared to give Hughes time- except for the "sob, sob he's left me" brigade who just wanted their beloved Sourpuss back. And why we're less prepared to give Ince time.

[gumboots]

How many times do you have to be told that was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

Then we had been flushed down the loo by someone who was becoming an excrement of a manager. We had only Dickov as a striker and the manager had taken over out of the transfer window.

This time we have a manager who came in nearly at the start of the transfer window, after we'd finished 7th, faffed around chasing Robbie Fowler and Keith Andrews with his tongue hanging out, conveniently forgetting that we'd sold our most creative player and the only person in the squad capable of playing right wing well.

THAT's why we were prepared to give Hughes time- except for the "sob, sob he's left me" brigade who just wanted their beloved Sourpuss back. And why we're less prepared to give Ince time.

Sorry. weren't those 2 defeats last year to Villa and coventry when Hughes had been here about 3 years and knew exactly what his players could do? Not when he first arrived. Not even early in his reign.

[JAL]

The new Oxford english definition of Blagger

Good CV BuckyRover, so I ask, what is the current progressive plan for Rovers?

It comes across to me as one muddled mess which the board and owners have contributed to.

[Hughesy]

How many times do you have to be told that was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

Then we had been flushed down the loo by someone who was becoming an excrement of a manager. We had only Dickov as a striker and the manager had taken over out of the transfer window.

This time we have a manager who came in nearly at the start of the transfer window, after we'd finished 7th, faffed around chasing Robbie Fowler and Keith Andrews with his tongue hanging out, conveniently forgetting that we'd sold our most creative player and the only person in the squad capable of playing right wing well.

THAT's why we were prepared to give Hughes time- except for the "sob, sob he's left me" brigade who just wanted their beloved Sourpuss back. And why we're less prepared to give Ince time.

Yeah but that is also tinted to back your arguement. You could also say for Ince, he had taken over an unsettled squad, where several 1st team players wanted to leave/ were unhappy (Roberts, McCarthy, Ooijer, Warnock), +1 unexpected (Friedel) + 1 expected (Bentley). A team that even though they finished 7th last season, were pretty poor overall, as the Birmingham away game highlighted.

Id like to see you settle them all down and try to keep them, lose 2 of your best players, try to replace them, try to implement your style and ideas, fight off interest for Roque, Warnock, Roberts & McCarthy, assess your squad and then sign the world class players that some fans of a particular message board expect.

Face facts - Ince didnt have enough time either, hence why he must be given time to get it right. We are 10th, 3 points behind the highest of our rivals, not 19th!! Stop being a drama queen!

[tonyoz]

I still have seen nothing in Paul Ince to convince me that he is a natural leader of men. Hughes has gone of course but imo he had that in bucketloads.

I know you are a big Hughes fan but he isn't setting the world alight right now, is he?

Ince was made captain for most of the teams he played for, including England. This would suggest that people who worked with him recognised his leadership qualities.

Hughes was supposedly very quiet in the dressing room and I don't recall that he was captain at any of his clubs as a player. He is a naturally shy person and hence not a natural leader of men IMO.

I think he has charisma, however, and there is no doubt that he has earned the respect of his players because of his record as a world class performer on the pitch.

[novella]

We are SEVEN games into the season and have had a decent start! bang on about transfers all you want. Still yet to see a bad bit of business by Ince.

[Jan]

Sorry. weren't those 2 defeats last year to Villa and coventry when Hughes had been here about 3 years and knew exactly what his players could do? Not when he first arrived. Not even early in his reign.

The only 2 back to back 4-0 losses we had were in the first season Hughes joined us.

[gumboots]

The only 2 back to back 4-0 losses we had were in the first season Hughes joined us.

Ok Accept that because despite having a good memory generally I forget football facts quite quickly. However, point still stands that we had those 2 defeats last season and whilst fans questioned hughes's tactics there were few who got on his back with half the venom that's being shown towards Ince. It's the sheer nastiness of the criticism that annoys me. Yes, Saturday was bad and I wouldn't deny that but to suggest that on that basis Ince should not be managing Rovers is wrong. Plenty of managers have teams that don't show up/play badly/don't compete in some games but fans don't immediately start calling for the managers head or using that result/performance to vindicate their own dislike of that manager. We lost to a side that played very well. To beat them we can't afford to be even at 99% performance level. We have to be 100% and get every bit of luck going and hope that they don't hit even 75% of their potential.

[Ninjathunder]

Two defeats at home to two of the best club teams in the world and some of you focus on how bad it makes Ince look and how he must have said this or that... None of you were in the dressing room so none of you know.

We've played very well against other teams and you can only look at the negatives of defeats against two top teams. Does any of this mean we won't beat United or Arsenal in the future? Does it balls! Ince is still putting his ideas and plans in place and will be for a while yet. Do I expect him to learn as well as the players? Yes because that's EXACTLY what's been happening. I predicted this bullsh't to myself on Friday if we lost and look what happens? Some of you come out with utter tripe to prove your own twisted logic correct, it's predictable and sad.

It wasn't the best performance. I agree with that but the conclusions some of you are coming up with are just farcical.

You know what? Ince is right. You can play as well as you possibly can but to play United on the day they play like champions is going to end up in a defeat for Rovers. This was one of those days. They had their best day this season and we didn't have ours. It doesn't mean we are going to lose every time we play them.

Did you lot hear what MoN said about Chelsea? Chelsea were too good for Villa. What would you say about Ince if he said that? He pretty much DID say that about United. MoN said don't make major assumptions on one game. You lot have been doing that about Ince for ages and it's stupid.

Hang on a minute. I've been very positive about Paul Ince and generally still am. I've never knocked his signings and you won't find anything negative about him on this messageboard from me (though I was initially critical of the lack of work put in by his defensive coach) until my post this morning.

Arsenal and Man U are two very good sides who would most likely get the better of us on match days. However, I am entitled to express my opinion, based on what I've seen so far this season (I wasn't at West Ham or Newcastle but have been to all the other games) that there was a distinct lack of an "up and at 'em" game plan, especially against Arsenal in the 2nd half.

I do hope that Paul learns from these games and I hope - and indeed expect -that we will get something from the remaining 6 games against the big four, as well as plenty of other results against other teams. It is the very fact I expect that has made the manner of the defeats against Arsenal and Man U so difficult to accept.

[Jan]

Yeah but that is also tinted to back your arguement. You could also say for Ince, he had taken over an unsettled squad, where several 1st team players wanted to leave/ were unhappy (Roberts, McCarthy, Ooijer, Warnock), +1 unexpected (Friedel) + 1 expected (Bentley). A team that even though they finished 7th last season, were pretty poor overall, as the Birmingham away game highlighted.

Id like to see you settle them all down and try to keep them, lose 2 of your best players, try to replace them, try to implement your style and ideas, fight off interest for Roque, Warnock, Roberts & McCarthy, assess your squad and then sign the world class players that some fans of a particular message board expect.

Face facts - Ince didnt have enough time either, hence why he must be given time to get it right. We are 10th, 3 points behind the highest of our rivals, not 19th!! Stop being a drama queen!

The thing that unsettled Friedel (at best) was Hughes leaving- he put in his transfer request the day after Hughes left- allegedly- certainly no earlier. Do I believe Bentley would still be here if Hughes had stayed? Yes. Hughes had already said he was going nowhere, and I have enough faith in Mark's man management to believe that he would have kept Bentley and reconciled Bentley to that fact. A nyaff like Ince had no chance.

And I just LOVE how you can be a poor team and finish 7th. Points mean prizes and any win is a good win. And Hughes obviously had enough points for prizes.

And seriously, did we really need Fowler or Andrews? I don't believe for a second that the first thing Ince was told wasn't "Bentley is going. He's the creative force behind and only decent right winger in the squad so he needs to be replaced ASAP. ALL transfer effort should go into this." Instead Ince trailed after JW going "please buy me some friends, please buy me some friends", until JW gave in to shut him up.

I think the attitude seems to be wrong. I don't think any team aspiring to anything at all can just forget the top four "because they're too good". I appreciate it's very important to beat those around and below you, and that's happening, but I think that throwing your hands in the air and admitting we can never be good ennough is a dangerous game to play.

However, if we keep beating those around us and below, we'll not be in relegation bother. It's just that after a number of years of having, or at least challenging for European football, it's an anti-climax. So much so that I succumbed to illness on Saturday rather than struggle to go to what I knew- even with United being relatively poor at the moment, and certainly not as good as the team that won everything last season- would be a drubbing.

[AggyBlue]

there was a distinct lack of an "up and at 'em" game plan,

That seems to be the way Ince prefers his team to play. It's been evident in all games so far.

[mhead]

Can we have BRFCS Hughesy as next assistant Manager to anyone...that guy has summed up Paul Ince's August predicament perfectly.

MessageBoard Gold please.

[tonyoz]

The thing that unsettled Friedel (at best) was Hughes leaving- he put in his transfer request the day after Hughes left- allegedly- certainly no earlier. Do I believe Bentley would still be here if Hughes had stayed? Yes. Hughes had already said he was going nowhere, and I have enough faith in Mark's man management to believe that he would have kept Bentley and reconciled Bentley to that fact. A nyaff like Ince had no chance.

And I just LOVE how you can be a poor team and finish 7th. Points mean prizes and any win is a good win. And Hughes obviously had enough points for prizes.

And seriously, did we really need Fowler or Andrews? I don't believe for a second that the first thing Ince was told wasn't "Bentley is going. He's the creative force behind and only decent right winger in the squad so he needs to be replaced ASAP. ALL transfer effort should go into this." Instead Ince trailed after JW going "please buy me some friends, please buy me some friends", until JW gave in to shut him up.

I think the attitude seems to be wrong. I don't think any team aspiring to anything at all can just forget the top four "because they're too good". I appreciate it's very important to beat those around and below you, and that's happening, but I think that throwing your hands in the air and admitting we can never be good ennough is a dangerous game to play.

However, if we keep beating those around us and below, we'll not be in relegation bother. It's just that after a number of years of having, or at least challenging for European football, it's an anti-climax. So much so that I succumbed to illness on Saturday rather than struggle to go to what I knew- even with United being relatively poor at the moment, and certainly not as good as the team that won everything last season- would be a drubbing.

Hughes leaving unsettled us all. Unlike him, however, we can't desert the club because the going gets tough. He has left to further his career.........because to him........that's all Rovers was - a chapter in his career. Now he is the "enemy" and that's how he should be treated.

Hughes/Bentley? You could be right......but again, when a player expresses his intention to go in such a public and disrespectful way, do we really want him to stay?

Calling Ince names does not enhance your argument.

We will never know the true details of what is said in the dressing room but I cannot believe that Paul Ince, of all people, would give second best to anyone. Even if he was still boss of Macclesfield..........I reckon he would expect and demand that his team go out and take it to United. On the day, we weren't good enough - Ince recognised that - that's all. But I am confident that he will make damn sure it is different next time.

I have faith in him and, obviously, you don't. I hope to prove you wrong as the season develops!

[JAL]

The thing that unsettled Friedel (at best) was Hughes leaving- he put in his transfer request the day after Hughes left- allegedly- certainly no earlier. Do I believe Bentley would still be here if Hughes had stayed? Yes. Hughes had already said he was going nowhere, and I have enough faith in Mark's man management to believe that he would have kept Bentley and reconciled Bentley to that fact. A nyaff like Ince had no chance.

And I just LOVE how you can be a poor team and finish 7th. Points mean prizes and any win is a good win. And Hughes obviously had enough points for prizes.

And seriously, did we really need Fowler or Andrews? I don't believe for a second that the first thing Ince was told wasn't "Bentley is going. He's the creative force behind and only decent right winger in the squad so he needs to be replaced ASAP. ALL transfer effort should go into this." Instead Ince trailed after JW going "please buy me some friends, please buy me some friends", until JW gave in to shut him up.

I think the attitude seems to be wrong. I don't think any team aspiring to anything at all can just forget the top four "because they're too good". I appreciate it's very important to beat those around and below you, and that's happening, but I think that throwing your hands in the air and admitting we can never be good ennough is a dangerous game to play.

However, if we keep beating those around us and below, we'll not be in relegation bother. It's just that after a number of years of having, or at least challenging for European football, it's an anti-climax. So much so that I succumbed to illness on Saturday rather than struggle to go to what I knew- even with United being relatively poor at the moment, and certainly not as good as the team that won everything last season- would be a drubbing.

Good post Jan, you answer my question as an empty seat you knew more than I of what the outcome was going to be against the dirty reds.

On Ince, why did he sign TWO goalkeepers then want to trial a third goalkeeper what was all that about was it indecision or an acceptance that he'd made a wrong call on one of the goalies.

[Hughesy]

I feel that our next 4 games of the season will give us a much more realistic picture of our season ahead

A – Bolton

H – Middlesbrough

A – Villa

A – West Brom

Now a realistic minimum from those games should be 7 pts, but ideally you would look for 10 pts from those games. Last season over these games, (replacing West Brom with Reading for this purpose) we got 6 pts from these 4 games.

[BuckyRover]

Good post Jan, you answer my question as an empty seat you knew more than I of what the outcome was going to be against the dirty reds.

On Ince, why did he sign TWO goalkeepers then want to trial a third goalkeeper what was all that about was it indecision or an acceptance that he'd made a wrong call on one of the goalies.

Your spurious assumptions hold no bounds.

D- for analysis.

[waggy]

now on saturday a mate has told me,one off these anti - ince posters was singing 'SACK THE * NOW' there is the answer to most off paul inces detracters

[Mr Creosote]

Good post Jan, you answer my question as an empty seat you knew more than I of what the outcome was going to be against the dirty reds.

On Ince, why did he sign TWO goalkeepers then want to trial a third goalkeeper what was all that about was it indecision or an acceptance that he'd made a wrong call on one of the goalies.

Again with the empty seats numbnuts.

I'll ask you again - Why is this Ince's fault now and not Hughes' pre Credit Crunch last and previous seasons.

Try not to deflect this time.

[JAL]

Your spurious assumptions hold no bounds.

D- for analysis.

I ask looking for answers your not giving me any Bucky.

[JAL]

Again with the empty seats numbnuts.

I'll ask you again - Why is this Ince's fault now and not Hughes' pre Credit Crunch last and previous seasons.

Try not to deflect this time.

Read Jans post on why he didnt want to go, anyhow i'm sure an exciting team would have pulled a few more through the turnstiles than it did.

Isnt Inces current team mainly Mark Hughes team.

All Ince had to do was add just ONE imaginative signing to the current squad just One Mr.Creosote, £10m blown on mediocrity hasnt even maintained the home support never mind added to it.

[Exiled in Toronto]

How many times do you have to be told that was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

Very different indeed. Hughes had Parkes, Darracot et al around to give him the low-down on the playing staff; he had time to recruit his backroom staff; he joined outside of the transfer window so had time to assess needs versus wants.

And why we're less prepared to give Ince time.

We? Be honest, you weren't prepared to give him any time at all. That's 2 of the last 3 managers you have refused to offer any support to. Through thick and thin, eh???

[Ray-Von]

I wouldn't say I was one of Ince's biggest fans, but the common belief amongst some fans that "we finished seventh, we can't be a poor side" is a little rose tinted at best. Hughes knew at the end of last season that a large part of the squad had shot it and there was a big rebuilding job on his hands with little or no money.

Look at the squad - No recognised right back (save for Emerton, who had done a reasonable job there), Warnock & Samba (inconsistent) Nelsen & Reid (pale shadows after long term injuries) Savage & Tugay (both well past it) Pedersen (hasn't been at the races for two years) Dunn (injury prone) Mokeona (roundly criticised by many on here) McCarthy (obviously disinterested, but unbelievably given a new deal) Roberts (appalling finisher) Derbyshire (better in the subs role) Bentley (apparent that he wanted out for months).