[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Mr Creosote]

Read Jans post on why he didnt want to go, anyhow i'm sure an exciting team would have pulled a few more through the turnstiles than it did.

Isnt Inces current team mainly Mark Hughes team.

All Ince had to do was add just ONE imaginative signing to the current squad just One Mr.Creosote, £10m blown on mediocrity hasnt even maintained the home support never mind added to it.

England goalkeeper, Chillean player of the year ......aye pretty mediocre.

Still, at least you're leaving David Dunn alone ya nut.

[Parsonblue]

Ultimately, the debate with regard to Ince is never going to go away until he starts to win things or gets us into Europe through our League position. The tone was set when Sam was in the running for the job and people went way overboard in trying - and succeeding - to persuade the club not to appoint him. In the same way that were so many people opposed to Sam there are similar numbers who are opposed to Ince. While fans organised online petitions against Sam and threatened to return season tickets, things haven't got that bad with regard to Ince. But just as Sam would never have been accepted by certain sections of our supporters the same is true of Ince.

When Mark Hughes left there was no obvious candidate to replace him. Several candidates had the support of fans and whoever got the job would not find favour with those who wanted a different choice.

It is up to the manager to win over those who have doubts about him at this level. Unfortunately, he doesn't always help himself with some of the statements that he has made. I was generally impressed with his interview on the BBC over the weekend until he talked about building the club up into a position where we could challenge for Europe. It would appear that he has totally failed to grasp that Mark Hughes had already achieved this and that his task was to build on this not dismantle it and then try to rebuild it over the next couple of years.

His remarks following the United defeat were a PR nightmare for the club. If the manager is so negative about the outcome of games against the top clubs then what is the point of supporters spending hard earned money to buy tickets for these matches?

Although Ince was not my first choice I have begun to warm to him in recent weeks. I thought his tactics against Newcastle were spot on and his faith in the younger players is another point in his favour. The fact that he dropped Andrews after a couple of games in favour of Tugay and has refrained from throwing Carlos in at the deep end suggest that he is growing into the job. However, his approach to meetings with the top four must change if he is to win the fans over. Perhaps he might ring up Hughes or Souness for a few pointers in how to tackle these games!

[tonyoz]

Ultimately, the debate with regard to Ince is never going to go away until he starts to win things or gets us into Europe through our League position. The tone was set when Sam was in the running for the job and people went way overboard in trying - and succeeding - to persuade the club not to appoint him. In the same way that were so many people opposed to Sam there are similar numbers who are opposed to Ince. While fans organised online petitions against Sam and threatened to return season tickets, things haven't got that bad with regard to Ince. But just as Sam would never have been accepted by certain sections of our supporters the same is true of Ince.

When Mark Hughes left there was no obvious candidate to replace him. Several candidates had the support of fans and whoever got the job would not find favour with those who wanted a different choice.

It is up to the manager to win over those who have doubts about him at this level. Unfortunately, he doesn't always help himself with some of the statements that he has made. I was generally impressed with his interview on the BBC over the weekend until he talked about building the club up into a position where we could challenge for Europe. It would appear that he has totally failed to grasp that Mark Hughes had already achieved this and that his task was to build on this not dismantle it and then try to rebuild it over the next couple of years.

His remarks following the United defeat were a PR nightmare for the club. If the manager is so negative about the outcome of games against the top clubs then what is the point of supporters spending hard earned money to buy tickets for these matches?

Although Ince was not my first choice I have begun to warm to him in recent weeks. I thought his tactics against Newcastle were spot on and his faith in the younger players is another point in his favour. The fact that he dropped Andrews after a couple of games in favour of Tugay and has refrained from throwing Carlos in at the deep end suggest that he is growing into the job. However, his approach to meetings with the top four must change if he is to win the fans over. Perhaps he might ring up Hughes or Souness for a few pointers in how to tackle these games!

I agree with most of what you say. However, I interpret Ince's remarks differently. There is no way at all that I can believe that someone of Ince's nature could accept defeat to anyone. I don't care if the team is Manchester United or Chelsea or Brazil.

The team he inherited was crumbling...........consider the performances last season as evidence. We should have been in Europe if we had played to our potential.

If I am sadly misguided, time will tell and you can rub my nose in it.

[JAL]

England goalkeeper, Chillean player of the year ......aye pretty mediocre.

Still, at least you're leaving David Dunn alone ya nut.

Creosote, a chilean player of the year who nobody around here has ever heard of is hardly going to get the crowds in is it?

Are you saying that he is the one imaginative signing that I think Ince should have signed.

[CrazyIvan]

Ive been away for the three wins on the bounce maybe its me but i've just seen us play Hull, Arsenal and Manu U and the displays have all been pretty similar.

I know what you should do, never go again! We win when you're not there!

[T4E]

England goalkeeper, Chillean player of the year ......aye pretty mediocre.

If there's one word that describes the current England goalkeeping situation then mediocre is it.

Carlos showed great imagination, but we all know where the suggestion came from, it's hard to give anyone too much credit for that.

[BuckyRover]

Roque Santa Cruz, Benni McCarthy and Craig Bellamy.

I knew the histories of all of those players before we bought them.

Middlesborough tried to sign McCarthy in 2001 or something. They were hardly unknown.

So does Hughes not get any credit because we all knew who they were or does he get credit for that?

[imy9]

Better question is which signing has Hughes ever made which has excited the crowds?

Carlos potentially is the most exciting signing we have made in years.

Benni? RSC? They all had baggage and if you check the threads "fans" were not pleased with the signings.

Ince's signings (like the man himself) needs time to develop the team, it is silly to think that 2 months into a season you can either judge the managers ability or the players that he has signed. Shame is that the fickle thing that is the world of football no longer gives managers time to demonstrate what they can do, thnakfully JW has shown that he is not like the majority of chairmen in the PL. Hoepfully Ince can repay the faith shown in him.

Roque Santa Cruz, Benni McCarthy and Craig Bellamy.

I knew the histories of all of those players before we bought them.

Middlesborough tried to sign McCarthy in 2001 or something. They were hardly unknown.

So does Hughes not get any credit because we all knew who they were or does he get credit for that?

Hughes surely gets credit for the players because of what they achieved at Rovers, which was above and beyond what was expected, especially RSC who scored an average of 5 goals a season before he struck gold last year for us. Hughes certainly had an eye for a player.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It is up to the manager to win over those who have doubts about him at this level. Unfortunately, he doesn't always help himself with some of the statements that he has made. I was generally impressed with his interview on the BBC over the weekend until he talked about building the club up into a position where we could challenge for Europe. It would appear that he has totally failed to grasp that Mark Hughes had already achieved this and that his task was to build on this not dismantle it and then try to rebuild it over the next couple of years.

We lost two of our most influential players over the summer - we had players playing well below the heights they had previously achieved - even pro-Hughes fans thought that we had lost something, and we limped towards the end of the season, ending in a disappointing defeat at Brum when Europe was within our grasp. The old saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it" - sorry, it was broke.

I think everyone accepted that Hughes did a good job - but his team was more functional than exciting - Ince wants to create an exciting, attractive team. If he can do this on the relative shoe-string budget - he will have done well.

IMO we have yet to see Ince's first choice team - Grella has yet to play - and everyone in the know recognised that Carlos would take time to settle. Add to that injuries to Dunn (our star midfield player early season) and Reid - does Ince not take some credit that we have had a half decent start to the season ?

BTW - anyone know what has happened to Vogel - still coming back from injury ? IMO him and Grella would make an excellent platform for Carlos to work his magic from.

[LeChuck]

Better question is which signing has Hughes ever made which has excited the crowds?

...

Benni? RSC? They all had baggage and if you check the threads "fans" were not pleased with the signings.

Hughes knew exactly how good they would be for us, that's why he signed them...you can't blame the fans' lack of foresight on Hughes!

Bentley excited the crowd, as did Benni in his first season, Bellamy was outstanding (some of his goals were awesome) and Santa Cruz continues to excite.

The only reason we're excited about Villanueva is because of the YouTube clips, but I remember we got quite excited about Pedersen after watching some clips of him as well. I do sometimes wonder if Nicko built expectations a little high for Carlos, I'd love to know what we'd all be expecting of him if Nicko hadn't been posting on here at the time.

[John]

One thing I will say on the Ince era so far is that he seems to change his mind on a few things:

Examples:

1) Right back is the number one and main priority position in the transfer window. Yes, he did bring in Simpson who is a right back. However, for a 'priority and main summer signing' you would have thought he would have brought someone more experienced in? A few days later after saying RB was meant to be the priority signing, JW was quoted as saying the absolute priority signings is a box to box midfielder.

2) Andrews - JW commented that he was targeted when Ince first took over, then he was not an option (interview in LET), then became an option again.

3) Attacking football! The old favourite line, used by managers such as Sammy Lee in the past when he was Bolton manager. Then all of a sudden, its all about playing ugly football and keeping a clean sheet (Fulham). For Ince to get us playing attacking, winning football, he will have to be a genius in the transfer market. Time will tell.

4) Standards. In front of the media he appeared to be angry after the Newcastle match and said he would not stand for certain things to happen again. Seemed more than forgiving post Man Utd. Pre-match he said he expected us not to lose and give them a hell of a game, because confidence is high.

Still early doors, but I think he has done ok. Our victories have been against teams in so-called 'turmoil' though (Newcastle & Everton). Will be interesting to see how we fair against the likes of Villa, Man City and Pompey.

Must remember, we have had injuries and of course international duty for some of the players! Seriously though, at this stage, I don't think he helps himself (with the fans) with some of the things he says, but that could take a while to change.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Bentley excited the crowd

Not in his first 6 months he didn't, apart from a very early cameo at Bolton. Carlos has looked much more exciting in his early stages than did the next Beckham.

[imy9]

Hughes knew exactly how good they would be for us, that's why he signed them...you can't blame the fans' lack of foresight on Hughes!

Bentley excited the crowd, as did Benni in his first season, Bellamy was outstanding (some of his goals were awesome) and Santa Cruz continues to excite.

The only reason we're excited about Villanueva is because of the YouTube clips, but I remember we got quite excited about Pedersen after watching some clips of him as well. I do sometimes wonder if Nicko built expectations a little high for Carlos, I'd love to know what we'd all be expecting of him if Nicko hadn't been posting on here at the time.

The argument could be applied to Ince too, Ince knows that the players are great and will excite the fans that is why he signed them!

Realistically Hughes did not sign ONE player who the fans got excited about (MGP was a Souey signing anyway).

Bellamy had a poor scoring record, as did Benni and RSC when they joined us. Bentley had a VERY poor season at Norwich before he joined us.

Carlos potentially looks a fantastic player and yes Youtube has played a part but his cameo role in games so far suggests we have could have a quality player.

Simpson looks a good prospect but we must realise Ince has had one transfer window, Hughes has FOUR years to get his players, hardly a fair comparison.

[John]

Realistically Hughes did not sign ONE player who the fans got excited about (MGP was a Souey signing anyway).

I remember feeling elated and extremely excited when Bellamy signed. Additionally, on the day, I received plenty of texts/emails from non Rovers fans telling me what an awesome signing he would be.

[imy9]

I remember feeling elated and extremely excited when Bellamy signed. Additionally, on the day, I received plenty of texts/emails from non Rovers fans telling me what an awesome signing he would be.

Thats what I love about football so many different opinions!

My mates were texting me about what a liability Bellamy was, a player who had pace but could not finish, supported with the stats.

[LeChuck]

My mates were texting me about what a liability Bellamy was, a player who had pace but could not finish, supported with the stats.

You need to get some mates who know about football then. You might stop posting rubbish on here if you do.

[BuckyRover]

You need to get some mates who know about football then. You might stop posting rubbish on here if you do.

What are you talking about?

Are you seriously trying to say that when we signed Bellamy it was like the second coming of Christ?

That he had no baggage and couldn't in any way be described as a liability and an accident waiting to happen?

That you didn't have to fend off criticism that Hughes could only sign Welsh players and that he couldn't even get in the team at Newcastle.

Short, rose tinted memories.

[John]

Yeah the stats show Bellamy had a decent scoring record at Newcastle (where he played right wing sometimes), Celtic and also in his earlier days at Norwich.

Only question mark when he joined was his fitness and attitude which was nullified somewhat because Hughes was manager.

Generally, he is (and was when we signed him) regarded as a very talented player IMO.

[RevidgeBlue]

You need to get some mates who know about football then. You might stop posting rubbish on here if you do.

To be fair my impression of Bellamy before he signed for us was that he was primarily a speed merchant who was rather wasteful in front of goal.

[JAL]

What are you talking about?

Are you seriously trying to say that when we signed Bellamy it was like the second coming of Christ?

That he had no baggage and couldn't in any way be described as a liability and an accident waiting to happen?

That you didn't have to fend off criticism that Hughes could only sign Welsh players and that he couldn't even get in the team at Newcastle.

Short, rose tinted memories.

When Bellamy signed it certainly got me excited that I went and purchased a season ticket on the signing alone, after one season wasnt let down at all just thoroughly gutted when he left for Liverpool.

The Chilean does not excite me in the same way that Bellamy and Bentley did but Fowler and Andrews have soured my appetite this season if thats the standard from now on then thats me out of it come next season, will certainly give Ince the rest of this season to turn it around and bring some quality in though i'm not to hopeful he can or is capable of doing it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's a shame he couldn't have been a bit more wasteful earlier this season when we went to Upton Park.

[LeChuck]

What are you talking about?

Are you seriously trying to say that when we signed Bellamy it was like the second coming of Christ?

That he had no baggage and couldn't in any way be described as a liability and an accident waiting to happen?

That you didn't have to fend off criticism that Hughes could only sign Welsh players and that he couldn't even get in the team at Newcastle.

Short, rose tinted memories.

Unfortunately the search function is still disabled, so I can't find what I wrote about him at the time. It was something along the lines of there being only Henry and Rooney better in the league than him. Obviously injuries and other things have had a major effect on him since then, I think it's very easy to forget just how good he was.

[BuckyRover]

I am not saying he wasn't good.

He was brilliant.

What I am saying is that 99% of Blackburn fans didn't know how good he was when we signed him. To describe him as a signing that really energised everybody involved with the club is just laughable.

[Ozz]

Bellamy was the last signing that got me excited, so to speak. Last player we had who was fast too.

[Tris]

When Bellamy signed it certainly got me excited that I went and purchased a season ticket on the signing alone

The news that you pick and choose when to support the club based solely on your personal view of individual players is hardly a surprise.

It puts you in the same bracket as Jan, who famously (and with much handbag swinging publicity) threw away her season ticket because she disliked Souness more than she liked BRFC.

Theres's a theme emerging here ... feel free to jog on any time