[Archived] Paul's Progress

[imy9]

IMO chairmen in England are too willing to give foreign managers a chance, when we do have British managers who are capable of making the grade.

A quick glance and the PL this morning and 5 out of the top 10 teams have British managers in charge, most of whom have limited funds to spend on players.

Brown has done an amazing job, Redknapp continues to impress, Moyes has broken into the top 4. Hughes got Roevrs into the top 10 3 years on the bounce and O' Neill is arguably one of the top managers in the game.

Looking at the job Ramos and a number of other foreign managers have done would British managers have faired any worse?

Finally we have one of the most qualified coaches in the world in Les Reed but his record at Charlton was abysmal, this merely highlights the fact that qualifications are good but not necessarily a given that you will become a good manager.

[modes98]

Looking at the job Ramos and a number of other foreign managers have done would British managers have faired any worse?

Wenger isn't doing to badly, how many british managers would have turned them into the force they are?

Also to say there are 5 british managers in the top 10 means there are 5 foreign managers, so they are doing equally as well. The problem for foreign managers is adapting quickly, that's why ex-prem players have a big advantage over the rest.

[den]

Well done to Ince for implying that the whole coaching certificate taking is a waste of his time .

Without going on the course, how would he know that Blue Phil?

Been on many courses in my time - some I've learned an awful lot from, some not so much. However, I've always learned something from a course. I'm sure Ince will learn something as well.

Thing is, - he goes on the course, takes everything in that's put to him, and at the end of it all he decides how he uses the extra knowledge, or otherwise.

He will be taught things that could apply to anyone, whether they are a footballer or not, so because he was a player himself wont have a bearing on whether his previous football experience makes him above the people teaching the course.

[broadsword]

I can't believe anyone would suggest that Ince has "learning difficulties", it's embarrassing that these comments haven't been removed from the site. it goes beyond a wind-up.

I can't see a problem with Ince's comments, he's said that he enjoys the practical aspects of the course, it's the dry, theoretical aspects that he doesn't see the point of.

at least he's getting his head down and he's doing it.

[thenodrog]

I can't believe anyone would suggest that Ince has "learning difficulties", it's embarrassing that these comments haven't been removed from the site. it goes beyond a wind-up.

I can't see a problem with Ince's comments, he's said that he enjoys the practical aspects of the course, it's the dry, theoretical aspects that he doesn't see the point of.

at least he's getting his head down and he's doing it.

Why are we debating this? Why are some people defending his stance? No one can defend the indefensible and this issue really is a no brainer on all sides. Consider........

From BRFC's point of view............ By showing such reluctance to pass what is by all accounts a simple qualification and in the process cocking a snook at authority he is setting a damned bad example to his staff, the players and the employees of BRFC in general, not to mention the Chairman who we are told had to beg a few favours from other clubs Chairmen and the FA in order to install him as manager in the first place. Striving for continual improvement should be the benchmark passed down from the top not a message of open and now public defiance.

In his and his staffs own interests........... Sooner or later he will leave BRFC. Fact. If he does well he will be likely poached away by a bigger club, alternatively if he does crap he'll be sacked. That much we all know is inevitable. Either way he will need to have passed these exams as it is unlikely that he will receive special dispensation twice. So it really is in his own interest to gain these qualifications. The fact that he has a golden opportunity now but is still railing against being disciplined to do as required is an indication of his mind set. He owes JW and the chairmen of the Prem a significant debt of gratitude and rubbing their noses in it is just plain effin stupid for his own future career.

btw Bryan you are 'embarrassed'? Why? I see no problem or shame in anybody having learning difficulty. It's only like people having physical difficulties by having no hand eye co-ordination or having two left feet etc. I still say that it is the only explanation for his reluctance to complete. You obviously think differently so taking the above into account do you still think his reluctance is valid? In fact why do you think he is making such an issue of this simple stipulation which has been a basic condition of his megabucks employment with us from the start?

[gumboots]

Why are we debating this? Why are some people defending his stance? No one can defend the indefensible and this issue really is a no brainer on all sides. Consider........

From BRFC's point of view............ By showing such reluctance to pass what is by all accounts a simple qualification and in the process cocking a snook at authority he is setting a damned bad example to his staff, the players and the employees of BRFC in general, not to mention the Chairman who we are told had to beg a few favours from other clubs Chairmen and the FA in order to install him as manager in the first place. Striving for continual improvement should be the benchmark passed down from the top not a message of open and now public defiance.

In his and his staffs own interests........... Sooner or later he will leave BRFC. Fact. If he does well he will be likely poached away by a bigger club, alternatively if he does crap he'll be sacked. That much we all know is inevitable. Either way he will need to have passed these exams as it is unlikely that he will receive special dispensation twice. So it really is in his own interest to gain these qualifications. The fact that he has a golden opportunity now but is still railing against being disciplined to do as required is an indication of his mind set. He owes JW and the chairmen of the Prem a significant debt of gratitude and rubbing their noses in it is just plain effin stupid.

btw Bryan you are 'embarrassed'? Why? I see no shame in anybody having learning difficulty. It's only like people having physical difficulties by having no hand eye co-ordination or having two left feet etc. I still say that it is the only explanation for his reluctance to complete. You obviously think differently so taking the above into account do you still think his reluctance is valid? In fact why do you think he is making such an issue of this simple stipulation which has been a basic condition of his megabucks employment with us from the start?

But he's doing them now. He doesn't have to like it - just do it - and he is.

[thenodrog]

But he's doing them now. He doesn't have to like it - just do it - and he is.

Indeed, Can I refer you to my opening sentence gumboots.

[BuckyRover]

I still don't understand your point.

A few months ago you were saying it was unlikely he would attend the classes as you didn't even think he could write.

Now you find out he is attending the classes but doesn't like them, and this justifies everything you have said?

You would never make an analyst

[CrazyIvan]

Why are we debating this? Why are some people defending his stance? No one can defend the indefensible and this issue really is a no brainer on all sides. Consider........

From BRFC's point of view............ By showing such reluctance to pass what is by all accounts a simple qualification and in the process cocking a snook at authority he is setting a damned bad example to his staff, the players and the employees of BRFC in general, not to mention the Chairman who we are told had to beg a few favours from other clubs Chairmen and the FA in order to install him as manager in the first place. Striving for continual improvement should be the benchmark passed down from the top not a message of open and now public defiance.

In his and his staffs own interests........... Sooner or later he will leave BRFC. Fact. If he does well he will be likely poached away by a bigger club, alternatively if he does crap he'll be sacked. That much we all know is inevitable. Either way he will need to have passed these exams as it is unlikely that he will receive special dispensation twice. So it really is in his own interest to gain these qualifications. The fact that he has a golden opportunity now but is still railing against being disciplined to do as required is an indication of his mind set. He owes JW and the chairmen of the Prem a significant debt of gratitude and rubbing their noses in it is just plain effin stupid for his own future career.

btw Bryan you are 'embarrassed'? Why? I see no problem or shame in anybody having learning difficulty. It's only like people having physical difficulties by having no hand eye co-ordination or having two left feet etc. I still say that it is the only explanation for his reluctance to complete. You obviously think differently so taking the above into account do you still think his reluctance is valid? In fact why do you think he is making such an issue of this simple stipulation which has been a basic condition of his megabucks employment with us from the start?

You're making a awful lot more of this story than it deserves. I might well say a particular part of a course is crap which is what Ince has said whereas he's said the exact opposite of another part of the course.

The truth is that you cannot defend your own comments earlier in this thread and you shouldn't even try. Ince is entitled to his opinion on the course and is entitled to say what he thinks especially if someone takes a look at the course and improves it.

[JC4LAB]

I am concerned about some of the injuries we are getting...I dont know what goes on in these courses but part of it must be awareness of injuries caused by bad/overtraining and pushing players too hard....and I wonder if this is one area we are a bit naive in.Hughes & Team seemed to have this to a tee with the way managed Bellamys and Santa s reputed history of injury was wll managed...The courses arent there for nothing and should be given due respect..

[Eddie]

What injuries? Reid out for the season? Hardly shocking news. Santa Cruz picking up a knock? Again, happened last year, oh and every other season for him. Bellamy missed a lot of the season when he was here.

[broadsword]

Why are we debating this? Why are some people defending his stance? No one can defend the indefensible and this issue really is a no brainer on all sides. Consider........

From BRFC's point of view............ By showing such reluctance to pass what is by all accounts a simple qualification and in the process cocking a snook at authority he is setting a damned bad example to his staff, the players and the employees of BRFC in general, not to mention the Chairman who we are told had to beg a few favours from other clubs Chairmen and the FA in order to install him as manager in the first place. Striving for continual improvement should be the benchmark passed down from the top not a message of open and now public defiance.

In his and his staffs own interests........... Sooner or later he will leave BRFC. Fact. If he does well he will be likely poached away by a bigger club, alternatively if he does crap he'll be sacked. That much we all know is inevitable. Either way he will need to have passed these exams as it is unlikely that he will receive special dispensation twice. So it really is in his own interest to gain these qualifications. The fact that he has a golden opportunity now but is still railing against being disciplined to do as required is an indication of his mind set. He owes JW and the chairmen of the Prem a significant debt of gratitude and rubbing their noses in it is just plain effin stupid for his own future career.

btw Bryan you are 'embarrassed'? Why? I see no problem or shame in anybody having learning difficulty. It's only like people having physical difficulties by having no hand eye co-ordination or having two left feet etc. I still say that it is the only explanation for his reluctance to complete. You obviously think differently so taking the above into account do you still think his reluctance is valid? In fact why do you think he is making such an issue of this simple stipulation which has been a basic condition of his megabucks employment with us from the start?

Stop talking nonsense.

He's setting a bad example to staff? Why, is he expecting our team to go out and earn three points on a Saturday by passing some exams?

It's embarrassing to be a member of this board when you are on it making such daft allegations about Paul Ince - it's totally cringeworthy. You have zero evidence to back it up, and it's just bloody offensive.

he's not making an "issue" of something, he's just stating his opinion, and I wonder why you have such a problem with it, when he's not actually defying anyone's authority.

He's doing the course, he just isn't over-enthusiastic about the classroom work.

[T4E]

I've seen Gord (and a few others) state in the past that it is their belief that Ince is "thick". I don't remember everyone getting up in arms about it. Now that he's using the term "learning difficulties" instead, it's all an outrage. He's getting slated for being PC, what wonderful irony

[speeeeeeedie]

Wha-hey! Straight from the horses mouth!

"Ince completed his second week of courses at Ewood Park last week and revealed the practical work was a lot better than the educational side of it.

He said: “I know it has to be done and to be fair I have enjoyed it. The coaching outside has been great. It gives you a different insight into what goes on as a coach but the classroom just does my head in."

Kinell I was spot on again! I'm expecting a whole raft of apologies and retractions from certain members whose responses to my initial post suggesting that Paul Ince suffered 'learning difficulties' were disrespectful, churlish, containg accusations of racism and basically just downright insulting.............

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=668608

C'mon children, and apologise. You know that you'll feel so much better for it.

Well done Gord, you're a genius. How many football coaching courses have you been on? Plenty? Or does your vast experience mean that you've never needed too?

Those that go into management relish being on the training pitch not sitting in a classroom writing theory. It was an honest opinion from him.

However, I will agree that most footballers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but they don't get paid for their brains. I heard a story about Wayne Rooney once. They were doing a classroom tactical session and he was totally confused. The coach then drew pictures for him and Rooney understood exactly what they were on about.

[CrazyIvan]

I've seen Gord (and a few others) state in the past that it is their belief that Ince is "thick". I don't remember everyone getting up in arms about it. Now that he's using the term "learning difficulties" instead, it's all an outrage. He's getting slated for being PC, what wonderful irony

I've commented on people throwing the word 'thick' at Ince with no evidence to back them up so that statement is incorrect. This entire thing is one person trying to justify his random and unevidenced comments that denigrate Paul Ince and it has noting or little to do with being PC. No-one has mentioned PC as an issue here before now. The fact that Gordon thinks it's ok to basically use the term 'learning difficulty' as an insult sums up what's wrong with his ideas and if you think that it's ok for him to do that you also need to take a good look at yourself because it's childish and immature at the least. It's just like calling someone four-eyes because they wear glasses. You might joke with a mate about it but using it as an insult is the stuff of school playgrounds.

[RevidgeBlue]

I've seen Gord (and a few others) state in the past that it is their belief that Ince is "thick". I don't remember everyone getting up in arms about it. Now that he's using the term "learning difficulties" instead, it's all an outrage. He's getting slated for being PC, what wonderful irony

Gordon has in the past insinuated that Ince won't actually complete the coaching courses, (whether it's because he simply can't be arsed or is incapable of doing them) and that therefore his relationship with BRFC will all end in tears.

It seems increasingly likely that this will not be the case, thus undermining, not supporting, Gord's original assertion that the manager has "learning difficulties."

I suspect in any event he intended the term originally to mean "won't be able to be arsed doing them" rather than "unfortunately disadvantaged and incapable of doing them" and suddenly coming over all PC!

[Exiled in Toronto]

I wonder what fans of other teams would make of all this. We are 9th and still in the cup, so better off than last year under the saintly Mark Hughes, yet fans are calling the manager left right and centre; booing his substitutions and so on.

Sooner or later the press are going to pick up on it, and there are only two possible interpretations:

i) who the f*** do the fans think they are, expecting Laudrup, Pele etc to be crawling over broken glass to be their manager.

ii) Racisim against Paul Ince

Both of which would give us a far worse press than we get even now.

Are any fans of any other clubs in the top 10 and still in the cup being so vitrioilic about their manager? Or clubs in the bottom 10 come to that. Look at Derby fans last year, now they had something to complain about.

Ince is not going to get sacked so all the booing etc can possibly achieve is to put other players off coming here and disrupt the current ones. Marvellous!

[BRFC1995]

So 8 games in we sit 9th on 11 pts. The 2 top teams have 20pts all from a possible 24 pts. Where exactly should we be in some peoples minds right now, do those that criticise every aspect of how the clubs run feel we should be what, 3rd, 4th 5th ? YOUR MAKING NO SENSE.

[philipl]

Ince is like Shakespeare's schoolboy "like snail unwillingly to school."

Moaning about classrooms doing his head in and the coaching course denying him a chance to take his family on holiday is not very edifying. His argument that he has nothing to learn after 20 years in football is SCARY.

What a huge difference from Mark Hughes who was so fullsome in his praise of what he learnt on the Warwick University Football Management course.

[T4E]

I've commented on people throwing the word 'thick' at Ince with no evidence to back them up so that statement is incorrect. This entire thing is one person trying to justify his random and unevidenced comments that denigrate Paul Ince and it has noting or little to do with being PC. No-one has mentioned PC as an issue here before now. The fact that Gordon thinks it's ok to basically use the term 'learning difficulty' as an insult sums up what's wrong with his ideas and if you think that it's ok for him to do that you also need to take a good look at yourself because it's childish and immature at the least. It's just like calling someone four-eyes because they wear glasses. You might joke with a mate about it but using it as an insult is the stuff of school playgrounds.

I can't believe you actually went to the effort to quote me and then write all of that!!

[67splitscreen]

Well he has completed levels, 3 & 2, or 1 & 2, which ever way round it is, according to Ince completed over the international breaks, so one to go this year then the Pro licence next year.

I don't give two hoot's if he signs his name with an X, as long as we stay in the Prem, and we compete in cups, with the chance of a top 6-7 finish.

Give me practical ability any day over theory, time will tell if he has the nous to achieve in the top flight.

[DingleBaiter]

You would never make an analyst

It sums up the fickle nature of the argument; initially, Ince's staff were slagged for not having the right qualifications compared to the Taffia. After 240hrs studying/attendance/training, does that then make them equally as good as their previous incumbents? Not entirely - far from it, I'd suggest. People like G will just find another straw to grasp to further their bias.

[gumboots]

I wonder what fans of other teams would make of all this. We are 9th and still in the cup, so better off than last year under the saintly Mark Hughes, yet fans are calling the manager left right and centre; booing his substitutions and so on.

Sooner or later the press are going to pick up on it, and there are only two possible interpretations:

i) who the f*** do the fans think they are, expecting Laudrup, Pele etc to be crawling over broken glass to be their manager.

ii) Racisim against Paul Ince

Both of which would give us a far worse press than we get even now.

Are any fans of any other clubs in the top 10 and still in the cup being so vitrioilic about their manager? Or clubs in the bottom 10 come to that. Look at Derby fans last year, now they had something to complain about.

Ince is not going to get sacked so all the booing etc can possibly achieve is to put other players off coming here and disrupt the current ones. Marvellous!

I quite agree. Nobody could see what the point of fowler being on the pitch was on saturday, not even the most pro-Ince people, and criticism of that choice may be fair,(although who else we could have played bearing in mind McCarthy's late return and Derbyshire's poor starting performances against some much less heavyweight teams than Bolton is another matter,) but to carp and criticise and publicly boo his decisions is something else. i used to think those going on about racism or other prejudices against Ince were making too much of it but I begin to wonder. Like it or not, he's the manager we've got. We're no longer a club that can get rid of a manager and expect to pick up another just like that. We don't have money to make us attractive to managers and we don't have the glamour of a big club that just might get over the fact that we have other problems. So we are unlikely, barring a mad slide down the league, to look at getting rid of the manager, and even then I think we'd be reluctant. So why can't people just let him get on with his job, criticise his decisions on tactics, subs and other footballing issues on boards like this which are largely in-house and publicly support our team.

[RevidgeBlue]

I don't give two hoot's if he signs his name with an X, as long as we stay in the Prem, and we compete in cups, with the chance of a top 6-7 finish.

Give me practical ability any day over theory, time will tell if he has the nous to achieve in the top flight.

What he said.

[BRFC95]

He's getting slated for being PC, what wonderful irony

Being PC isn't trendy anymore.