[Archived] Paul's Progress

[ABBEY]

Sooner or later the press are going to pick up on it, and there are only two possible interpretations:

i) who the f*** do the fans think they are, expecting Laudrup, Pele etc to be crawling over broken glass to be their manager.

ii) Racisim against Paul Ince

Both of which would give us a far worse press than we get even now.

go on tell us where its been racist.

[gumboots]

go on tell us where its been racist.

Don't think he said it was; only that the press may put that interpretation on it

[JAL]

Ince is like Shakespeare's schoolboy "like snail unwillingly to school."

Moaning about classrooms doing his head in and the coaching course denying him a chance to take his family on holiday is not very edifying. His argument that he has nothing to learn after 20 years in football is SCARY.

What a huge difference from Mark Hughes who was so fullsome in his praise of what he learnt on the Warwick University Football Management course.

I think Ince means the game in principle is still the same as it always has been for him thats why he thinks doesnt need to learn but the most important thing is learning about the people you command whom you expect to do a job for you thats got to be the most important continual learning curve in football understanding, instructing, selecting, recruiting, interacting with one another. Surely a critical success factor in the game.

[ABBEY]

Don't think he said it was; only that the press may put that interpretation on it

ok then why would the press interpret as that? Ive not heard one racist chant ,comment or read any either ,so if they did its balls.

[DingleBaiter]

I think Ince means the game in principle is still the same as it always has been for him thats why he thinks doesnt need to learn but the most important thing is learning about the people you command whom you expect to do a job for you thats got to be the most important continual learning curve in football understanding, instructing, selecting, recruiting, interacting with one another. Surely a critical success factor in the game.

Which is probably a key factor in his recruitment strategy too? He's brought people in he feels will do a job for him, either because he knows them well or otherwise. These folk that suggest he's just doing it because of social ties, or doing a friend a favour, are really quite silly I think. As always in these cases, folk apply one logic to football and a different one to the real world.

[JAL]

Which is probably a key factor in his recruitment strategy too? He's brought people in he feels will do a job for him, either because he knows them well or otherwise. These folk that suggest he's just doing it because of social ties, or doing a friend a favour, are really quite silly I think. As always in these cases, folk apply one logic to football and a different one to the real world.

True Dinglebaiter, but its widely known within the club that Robbie Fowler was brought in because of his friendship with Ince just ask John Williams.

[DingleBaiter]

True Dinglebaiter, but its widely known within the club that Robbie Fowler was brought in because of his friendship with Ince just ask John Williams.

Cripes JAL, if you said it was sunny outside I'd still take my umbrella with me

So, are you seriously suggesting that's the only factor? John Williams, cool as he is, still says some wacky stuff too. I'm sure he didn't say explicitly that we've brought a guy in (that couldn't even turn it on for the club he loves two seasons ago), jeopardising us on several levels, just to a mate a favour?

I'm sure whatever was said was alluding to the same deal as Hughes bringing in Savage, somewhere along the line their previous bond would have been referenced?

It's like modern art or Rorschach ink blots ultimately, folk see/hear/read into whatever they want to see in things? Look at the self-serving argument previously based on one sentence uttered by Ince.

[JAL]

Cripes JAL, if you said it was sunny outside I'd still take my umbrella with me

So, are you seriously suggesting that's the only factor? John Williams, cool as he is, still says some wacky stuff too. I'm sure he didn't say explicitly that we've brought a guy in (that couldn't even turn it on for the club he loves two seasons ago), jeopardising us on several levels, just to a mate a favour?

I'm sure whatever was said was alluding to the same deal as Hughes bringing in Savage, somewhere along the line their previous bond would have been referenced?

It's like modern art or Rorschach ink blots ultimately, folk see/hear/read into whatever they want to see in things? Look at the self-serving argument previously based on one sentence uttered by Ince.

Big difference between Sav and Fowler was, Sav was still in his prime and went on to make a massive impact with the fans, Fowler has been past it for several seasons its a no brainer Dinglebaiter or are you John Williams in disguise trying to defend the indefensible.

[MarkBRFC]

We are 9th and still in the cup, so better off than last year under the saintly Mark Hughes,

Well, not really.

This time last season we had 15pts from our first 8 games as opposed to the 11 points we have now, and were also still in the league cup.

[philipl]

Unfortunately Ince staying within his comfort zone has brought us Andrews and Fowler whereas Hughes staying within his comfort zone brought us Bellamy.

Please let's not go round the racism argument again- I refrained last time it came up and I'll refrain again from commenting.

There are some issues behind the scenes which the automatically-supportive Ince posters are preferring to close their eyes, ears and minds to and simplify the matter as pro-Ince vs anti-Ince factions. It is not purely that; many of us desperately want Paul to succeed for the good of our great club but are very nervous. In a number of ways, Paul Ince is not helping himself in terms of winning hearts and minds and allaying concerns about his leadership and management.

What is paramount obviously is the on-field performance and the results we are achieving. It is reasonably OK so far but Paul Ince is going to have to keep the progress in League and Cups going to avoid having to answer more questions about what he is doing than might be normal for a new manager at this stage.

[BRFC1995]

Big difference between Sav and Fowler was, Sav was still in his prime and went on to make a massive impact with the fans, Fowler has been past for several seasons its a no brainer Dinglebaiter or are you John Williams in disguise trying to defend the indefensible.

we signed someone for zero money, we did'nt pat £10m for gary glitter.

[JAL]

we signed someone for zero money, we did'nt pat £10m for gary glitter.

Brfc 1995 we might aswell have signed you and play you up front instead of Fowler no disrespecting your football abilities but the end result of either option would be pretty similar.

[AndyC]

Unfortunately Ince staying within his comfort zone has brought us Andrews and Fowler whereas Hughes staying within his comfort zone brought us Bellamy.

Please let's not go round the racism argument again- I refrained last time it came up and I'll refrain again from commenting.

There are some issues behind the scenes which the automatically-supportive Ince posters are preferring to close their eyes, ears and minds to and simplify the matter as pro-Ince vs anti-Ince factions. It is not purely that; many of us desperately want Paul to succeed for the good of our great club but are very nervous. In a number of ways, Paul Ince is not helping himself in terms of winning hearts and minds and allaying concerns about his leadership and management.

What is paramount obviously is the on-field performance and the results we are achieving. It is reasonably OK so far but Paul Ince is going to have to keep the progress in League and Cups going to avoid having to answer more questions about what he is doing than might be normal for a new manager at this stage.

Consider this as an option for a minute Phil.

Ince comes in and has no time to assess the playing squad, as they are off for the summer. Before he makes any massive outlays, he wants to give the squad the fresh chance to show what they can do.

So he buys people that cost us next to nothing, to get us through an uncertain period.

Andrews - was only supposed to be a decent squad player. For many - he's already a better option than the axe. Not inces fault that injuries have piled up in this area and he's been used more than he probably thought.

Fowler - paid nothing for him and he provides a different outlet and some coaching type experience for the likes of derbyshire to learn from in training.

Grella - less than 3 million euros.

robinson - an england keeper with 50 caps.

My point is - if he had gone out and spent fortunes on players before he had the chance to assess the players for himself, he could have shot himself in the foot.

As it is, if we 're still in the top 10 by January, he's going to be in a far greater position to know exactly what is needed and who to go out and buy.

How is this season any different to last season? We've played some drivel & we've played some sublime stuff.

Hughes made some cracking signings. He also made some horror signings. Let's at least give Ince the chance to show us what he has planned.

Anyone would think we were in spurs position at the foot of the table. For a club that spent the least in the close season, he's doing a magnificent job!

[LeChuck]

Grella - less than 3 million euros.

Not true at all. There's a direct quote from Ince somewhere about that fee, and it was in excess of 4 million. I worked out what it came to in pounds and it was 3.2 million. A lot of money for a distinctly average 28 year old.

[gumboots]

ok then why would the press interpret as that? Ive not heard one racist chant ,comment or read any either ,so if they did its balls.

the press interpret things how they want though. there was plenty about Ince being the first black british manager in the press when he first came here. If fans turn on him and it's not because results are awful then the press will start to look for reasons. If they can't really find any then they are not averse to printing exactly what they feel like. There are always racist overtones to be found if you look for them, even in things said by people who are by no means racist. It wouldn't take much looking. I hope that none of the dislike of Ince is racial and I have kept out of the debates on this previously but when someone appears to be criticised by their own fans whatever he does, then you wouldn't have to try very hard to ask if there was racism involved.

[ABBEY]

im trying hard to find racial critism and cant find any.maybe i'm nieve or however you spell it.so why would the press think it,its bloody pc and racism gone bloody billyballoo.

[gumboots]

im trying hard to find racial critism and cant find any.maybe i'm nieve or however you spell it.so why would the press think it,its bloody pc and racism gone bloody billyballoo.

I'm not saying it is. Only that if you can't see any obvious reason why the fans are turning on a manager and criticising his every move, then someone somewhere will be looking to explain it and since he is black and they wanted to talk about that when he first came here they could and probably would put 2 and 2 together and make any number they wanted to. I'm not saying it's right or true necessarily - just a possible scenario.

[ABBEY]

and if they do they would be wrong.

[Head Rover Heels]

Agreed Abbey, but once the press decide that they're going to blame something... especially something as "easily headline-able" as that would be...

Not true at all. There's a direct quote from Ince somewhere about that fee, and it was in excess of 4 million. I worked out what it came to in pounds and it was 3.2 million. A lot of money for a distinctly average 28 year old.

I made the same comment when we bought Savage. I think Grella will turn out to be the better purchase (just an opinion)

[DingleBaiter]

I'm not saying it is. Only that if you can't see any obvious reason why the fans are turning on a manager and criticising his every move, then someone somewhere will be looking to explain it and since he is black and they wanted to talk about that when he first came here they could and probably would put 2 and 2 together and make any number they wanted to. I'm not saying it's right or true necessarily - just a possible scenario.

I'd suggest a more apt word would be 'prejudice'.

IMO I've seen - and heard - enough tripe aimed in Ince's direction to feel prejudice, in it's truest form, could be the only logical reason for it. However, that is far from being racism. As always, the whole concept of racism is misintrepeted to suit other agendas.

Keith Andews was 'pre-judged' before he'd even kicked a ball for us. Grella has been presumptously judged, based on 45 mins when clearly not 100%. Villanueva suckered the gullible into thinking he'd be as good as he was in the Grimsby game all the time.

Personally, I can't fathom why folks are in such a rush to show their lack of knowledge, patience and level-headedness

[imy9]

Unfortunately Ince staying within his comfort zone has brought us Andrews and Fowler whereas Hughes staying within his comfort zone brought us Bellamy.

Please let's not go round the racism argument again- I refrained last time it came up and I'll refrain again from commenting.

There are some issues behind the scenes which the automatically-supportive Ince posters are preferring to close their eyes, ears and minds to and simplify the matter as pro-Ince vs anti-Ince factions. It is not purely that; many of us desperately want Paul to succeed for the good of our great club but are very nervous. In a number of ways, Paul Ince is not helping himself in terms of winning hearts and minds and allaying concerns about his leadership and management.

What is paramount obviously is the on-field performance and the results we are achieving. It is reasonably OK so far but Paul Ince is going to have to keep the progress in League and Cups going to avoid having to answer more questions about what he is doing than might be normal for a new manager at this stage.

What issues behind the scenes? there have been posters commenting on the apparent 'mutiny' in the ranks but when the captain, Dunn, Emerton and co have praised Ince and have stated how they are loving the training and that they are united then I am confused?!

Ince is completing his badges- tick one.

Ince is winning football games- tick two.

Ince is getting the team to play some attractive football- tick three.

When is this guy going to get a fair chance? When I say fair I mean, people putting prejudices against what he was like as a player behind and actually giving him a chance before judging? I am sure that means that I am pro-Ince but I think supporting a manager is what Rovers 'fans' should be doing. Criticise by all means but at least make it justified... example: Carlos' interview stating that things about Ince, how many Rovers 'fans' chose to believe that and criticise Ince?

Unfortunately Ince staying within his comfort zone has brought us Andrews and Fowler whereas Hughes staying within his comfort zone brought us Bellamy.

How long did Hughes have before signing Bellamy? Ince had a MONTH, how can this be a comparable situation? Hughes' first three signings were Youri D, The Axe and The big Kiwi- TWO out of THREE were flops (are), Ince's signings have not had a chance to prove themselves yet (oh sorry Grella played 45 minutes )

[1864roverite]

The one burning issue in all of this seems to being missed.

Ince failed to notice that Rovers on selling Bentley DID NOT have a creative midfielder in the squad.

Ince failed to sign an adequate replacement, its no point harping on about coming to the club late and assessing, it was THAT PLAINLY OBVIOUS even a bloddy burnley fan would have noticed it !

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

We did try and sign someone, but it was out of our hands. Pretty sure they weren't sat with their thumbs up their arses.

[DingleBaiter]

The one burning issue in all of this seems to being missed.

Ince failed to notice that Rovers on selling Bentley DID NOT have a creative midfielder in the squad.

Ince failed to sign an adequate replacement, its no point harping on about coming to the club late and assessing, it was THAT PLAINLY OBVIOUS even a bloddy burnley fan would have noticed it !

Good job you're not the fireman then, friend-o, as you'd be running into the house next door with your fire blanket

What you've failed to notice is the difference between 'failing to notice' and 'failing to acquire'. Club was sat up till witching hour on deadline night, why - if Ince had 'failed to notice'? Surely, the fact they were confident they were bringing someone in to have everyone ready to do the deal would contradict your perception of events.

I'm not averse to criticism that's based on facts. I AM averse to criticism based on a lack of facts.

[1864roverite]

So what your saying DB is that all the time, pre season and right up to the deadline, you were happy in the "knowledge" that PI was looking to secure an aqequate replacement for Bentley and that you "happy" with the NEGATIVE outcome of those efforts ?

Rovers had 7 pre season games as well as 4 league games to acquire the said replacement, the fact is despite your claims we failed to get the player even though we had been trying for a number of weeks.

If Rovers had identified the player earmarked as a replacement, then you would have expected in this day and age that if number 1 priority failed then the number 2 option would have been followed up, like a plan B after plan A.

PPPPPP - is a pneumonic that really does have a meaning.

Prior Planning Prevents ###### Poor Performance.

It really is as simple as that IMO.