[Archived] Paul's Progress

[gazsimm]

Gazz.

Hughes and JW didn't see it that way at all, did they? - and why keep asking me about Keith Andrews? I've said very little about him, but apparently your already convinced of his quality. We will see.

do you not think Den, MR Williams was waiting for the agreed price which they eventually got from Spurs? Once the right bid came in for him he was off no doubt about it Den.

Hughes left Rovers because he had took us as far he could and he knew deep down we could not progress any further. What would you of said if Hughes was still our manager and Bentley got sold Den, which would of still happend.

You have been against Ince since the 1st day he become manager of Rovers, and keep coming back to the sale of Bentley and Brad, but we would still be in the same situation now even if Hughes was still in charge Rovers. Ince would of loved to of kept Bentley and Brad, but sadly we are Blackburn Rovers and not Manchester United or Chelsea DEN!!!!!

[den]

look at the facts -

so realistically guys - do you think he would have stayed?

It wasn't his decision as to whether he would have stayed. Ask Barry and Ronaldo.

[den]

do you not think Den, MR Williams was waiting for the agreed price which they eventually got from Spurs? Once the right bid came in for him he was off no doubt about it Den.

Answer to the first sentence - definately not. Answer to your second sentence - you put that as fact, but it wasn't Bents' decision, it was Inces decision.

Hughes left Rovers because he had took us as far he could and he knew deep down we could not progress any further. What would you of said if Hughes was still our manager and Bentley got sold Den, which would of still happend.

only if you believe that Hughes and JW were lieing

You have been against Ince since the 1st day he become manager of Rovers, and keep coming back to the sale of Bentley and Brad, but we would still be in the same situation now even if Hughes was still in charge Rovers. Ince would of loved to of kept Bentley and Brad, but sadly we are Blackburn Rovers and not Manchester United or Chelsea DEN!!!!!

Take my arguments as they appear Gazz, instead of peddling the anti-ince argument.

[1864roverite]

Andy C what lies ? As for peddling, the onl peddling I have done is on my bike and got injured !!

For once and all, I dont hate Ince, I support him what I cant do with is excuses that are not acceptable, purchasing players that wont and dont improve our squad and inept tactics which, for all Rovers fans to see, are completely out of touch with the players used and which, as we saw last night, lose us points.

If I can see that the toy wasnt broken like many others, then why try to fix it ?

BRFC needed TLC not wholesale changes, we have gone from being a solid 7th best team in the league to being amongst the also rans for relegation candidates, its really hard to stomach after the progress we have made.

[den]

We don't know for certain what went on behind the scenes but it does appear that Bentley caused no end of problems, way more than Barry did and that is probably why he was sold. There

Is that the Gareth Barry who played against us last night, for Aston Villa - and who slagged off Martin O'Neill something terrible during the summer?

[CrazyIvan]

BRFC needed TLC not wholesale changes, we have gone from being a solid 7th best team in the league to being amongst the also rans for relegation candidates, its really hard to stomach after the progress we have made.

If it were the end of the season and we were in the few teams above relegation I would be unhappy but we are 10 games into the season and mid-table. A change in manager results in changes in personnel, it happens everywhere so why should Rovers be any different? Ince getting this team to play his way takes time. Be patient.

Is that the Gareth Barry who played against us last night, for Aston Villa - and who slagged off Martin O'Neill something terrible during the summer?

Barry didn't go drunkenly rambling to Sky and whoever wanted to listen that he wanted to leave Villa. Nobody was going to get Bentley to stay. Not Hughes, not Ince and not JW. He was going to leave one way or another. It just happened that we got a decent enough offer off Spuds and that was it. I just wish this would be LEFT ALONE! It's getting very very old.

[Ray-Von]

Im quite sure Barry would have been sold if Villa's asking price would have been met.

[tcj_jones]

Den, I feel that you're being a little naive about the whole Bentley situation. He was going to leave, one way or another, and if Spurs didn't buy him, somebody else would have. Barry and Ronaldo were very different cases. Where we can fault Ince is his inability to sign a replacement, that was hugely negligent.

The summer was a pretty desperate time for the club, losing its best players and a new management team coming in with new ideas. While we have a number of new faces, I don't believe that we will begin to see 'Ince's team' for another season or two, certainly not by the end of January. Also, Dunn was the heartbeat of our side, his absence will affect the way we play. I also think that Grella and Villanueva are good additions to the first team.

[den]

Barry didn't go drunkenly rambling to Sky and whoever wanted to listen that he wanted to leave Villa. Nobody was going to get Bentley to stay. Not Hughes, not Ince and not JW. He was going to leave one way or another. It just happened that we got a decent enough offer off Spuds and that was it. I just wish this would be LEFT ALONE! It's getting very very old.

Barry's comments about MON were far worse than what Bentley had to say. As for the rest of your post Crazy, that's just an opinion.

Now then, Whao, whoa, whoa

It wasn't my intention to bring up the Bentley thing again, I've had enough, as has everyone else. If you read back, this took off again because I corrected Waggy when he said that Ince has to put up with Hughes team 'til January. I pointed out that Ince has **sold two players** and brought in four players. This clearly isn't the team that Hughes would have been putting out.

** followed by accusations of being a "tool", a "plank" and "anti Ince". No surprise there then.

I hereby promise, to never bring up the David Bentley discussion again.

[Al]

Den, when will you ever learn.

Stop flogging a dead horse. The Rovers "fans" will unite against your diatribe. People are seeing it for what it is. Baseless

I think it's your diatribe they are likely to unite against Bucky. You are beginning to irritate me with your argumentative posts and I am sure that you are annoying others too. Den knows more about Rovers and football in general than you will ever learn.

[den]

Den, I feel that you're being a little naive about the whole Bentley situation. He was going to leave, one way or another, and if Spurs didn't buy him, somebody else would have. Barry and Ronaldo were very different cases. Where we can fault Ince is his inability to sign a replacement, that

The summer was a pretty desperate time for the club, losing its best players and a new management team coming in with new ideas. While we have a number of new faces, I don't believe that we will begin to see 'Ince's team' for another season or two, certainly not by the end of January. Also, Dunn was the heartbeat of our side, his absence will affect the way we play. I also think that Grella and Villanueva are good additions to the first team.

I wish I'd replied to this before my last post.

[philipl]

Is that the Gareth Barry who played against us last night, for Aston Villa - and who slagged off Martin O'Neill something terrible during the summer?

Absolutely spot on.

Let me make it 100% clear- I am not anti-Ince and I am 100% pro Blackburn Rovers.

There are big issues with regards to Paul Ince but I will be absolutely delighted if he overcomes them and powers Rovers up the table and back to where we were before he arrived: challenging for Cup silverware and in the shakedown for European qualification through our league position.

He inherited a squad which was achieving that and was given a budget that was bigger than any budget Mark Hughes had had. That is incontrovertible.

He did extremely well insisting we signed Brad's replacement before letting Brad move on for an amazing fee for a 37 year old and I believe that Robinson has it in him to be the best keeper in the Premier League again. BIG THUMBS UP

Changing his mind about being determined to keep Bentley and not signing a replacement at least as good. BIG THUMBS DOWN

Losing the confidence of the Board in the rest of the Summer transfer window (only a blinkered person can fail to see that is the case). BIG THUMBS DOWN

The players he has signed. JURY IS OUT THROUGH INJURY OR LACK OF FITNESS SO FAR

Uniting and exciting the fan base. HASN'T HAPPENED SO FAR

Playing better more attractive football. BIG THUMBS UP but I know some disagree because of lack of goal mouth action in the the opponents' half.

Play against the Big 4. BIG THUMBS DOWN SO FAR

Play against the rest of the League. JURY IS OUT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GETTING THE POINTS OUR PERFORMANCES WARRANTED.

So that's up in 2, jury out in 3 and down in 3.

I am worried that Ince is not up to the job but I desperately want him to succeed.

If that makes me an Ince hater then there is probably a majority amongst the Rovers supporters whom the Paulets would class as Ince haters.

[CrazyIvan]

Barry's comments about MON were far worse than what Bentley had to say. As for the rest of your post Crazy, that's just an opinion.

Now then, Whao, whoa, whoa

It wasn't my intention to bring up the Bentley thing again, I've had enough, as has everyone else. If you read back, this took off again because I corrected Waggy when he said that Ince has to put up with Hughes team 'til January. I pointed out that Ince has **sold two players** and brought in four players. This clearly isn't the team that Hughes would have been putting out.

** followed by accusations of being a "tool", a "plank" and "anti Ince". No surprise there then.

I hereby promise, to never bring up the David Bentley discussion again.

I'm not having a go at you for going on about the Bentley thing but it comes up SO OFTEN and is used to bash Ince so often and Bentley has long gone. I'd prefer to forget him because nobody has annoyed me more for being such a gobby little sh@te...

[T4E]

I think it's your diatribe they are likely to unite against Bucky. You are beginning to irritate me with your argumentative posts and I am sure that you are annoying others too. Den knows more about Rovers and football in general than you will ever learn.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one that spotted the irony there Al.

[Parsonblue]

Surely the whole debate with regard to the relative merits of Hughes and Ince is now totally academic. The fact is that Hughes has left and what he achieved at this club is now history. The club enjoyed a successful period under Hughes just has it had under many other managers in the past. We enjoyed it while he was here but now it is part of the club's history. Paul Ince is now the manager and it's pointless to compare every decision he makes and every result he achieves with those of a former manager.

The simple truth is that the Rovers are one of a number of clubs for whom this season could easily develop into a relegation campaign if the next few results don't go their way. Last night I thought we played some excellent football and looked very creative without really ever creating too many clear cut chances. Without Roque our attack looks threadbare as Derbyshire, Roberts, McCarthy and Fowler have all failed to really make much impact this season. Only WBA have a poorer goal difference and for me that is where the problems are. We concede too easily and we are not making sufficient chances with the possession we have.

If the manager can sort this out then there is no reason why we shouldn't finish in mid-table. If he can't then we will be in a battle to survive. However, I think the days of challenging for European qualification through the League are over in the short term. The end of the intertoto cup makes it virtually impossible for clubs like the Rovers to achieve Europe through the League. Fifth place is not a realistic hope when you compare the wage bills and the amounts that clubs have to spend. That not being unambitious but just stating a fact. With gates falling - and likely to fall further in the present economic climate - at Ewood Park there is no guarantee that the club will splash out huge amounts of money in January. Indeed, I suspect the manager will have to try to raise some funds by selling some of the fringe players - indeed to decision to get Vogel off the wage bill has already been made.

The reason I feel it is pointless to compare Hughes and Ince is simply because football changes all the time. Ince is facing a different situation to Hughes and has different problems to deal with. If the game didn't change then we would have fans on here demanding that we challenge for the title because that's what we did for a couple of seasons in the 1990s.

I don't believe that the club are any less ambitious now than they were under Hughes, or Souness or Kidd or Hodgson or Harford or Dalglish. However, times change and times are changing now with several clubs just outside of the top four getting more financial support than is available to the Rovers. In those circumstances surely our aims have to change too and I suspect in the near future Premier League survival will be viewed as a major achievement for a number of clubs like the Rovers.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I don't understand. Ince wanted to keep Bentley until his position became untenable and he was feigning injury so he didn't play in games in pre-season, and what he said pointed pretty strongly to the fact that Bentley was trying to make a nuisance of himself behind the scenes.

Bentley was desperate to go. I don't think for a moment that MH, PI or JW would have been able to convince him to stay.

[1864roverite]

Patience with the Premiership is something that no one can afford.

If Rovers are to experiment then they do so against teams such as manure,chelsea and arsenal, NOT the teams we are expected to beat, such as Bolton, Boro, Hull and maybe even Villa.

No doubt the football looks pretty but on many occasions there is NO end product ie a bloody goal.

10 games gone, 28 left. we really should be sitting on at least 18 points not 12. Some big big games loom plus Xmas and before you know it we are into January, the time of the year when teams can struggle.

What Rovers dont need is to go into January on a slump because once yr in the crap its hard to get out.

You cant tell me that PI doesnt know his best 11 or his best formation becasue I do and I am only a supporter.

its time to put the excuses away, move on and get on with the job.

[philipl]

I don't understand. Ince wanted to keep Bentley until his position became untenable and he was feigning injury so he didn't play in games in pre-season, and what he said pointed pretty strongly to the fact that Bentley was trying to make a nuisance of himself behind the scenes.

Bentley was desperate to go. I don't think for a moment that MH, PI or JW would have been able to convince him to stay.

BUT, he told the good guy (Brad) he had to stay until a replacement was signed but let the bad guy (Bentley) leave without a replacement.

Villa showed the way how to deal with this sort of situation and are reaping the benefit. We capitualted and I repeat we have not received nor are guarranteed to receive the £17m asking price.

[ABBEY]

I think it's your diatribe they are likely to unite against Bucky. You are beginning to irritate me with your argumentative posts and I am sure that you are annoying others too. Den knows more about Rovers and football in general than you will ever learn.

and id wager a large sum,attended far more games too.

[den]

Den knows more about Rovers and football in general than you will ever learn.

I could find a thousand or two that would disagree with that Al.

[BuckyRover]

Hard to stomach??

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE???

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

BUT, he told the good guy (Brad) he had to stay until a replacement was signed but let the bad guy (Bentley) leave without a replacement.

Villa showed the way how to deal with this sort of situation and are reaping the benefit. We capitualted and I repeat we have not received nor are guarranteed to receive the £17m asking price.

Was Brad deliberately causing back room unrest to get himself out quicker though?

[BuckyRover]

Villa have benefitted?

Do you think that has more to do with having a billionaire owner?

Do you think if Bentley had carried on and had continued to sulk we would still get 17 (or 15) million for him?

Do you think that would threaten the future of the club, especially as we are in the midst of a financial crisis?

Would it have threatened Villa if Barry didn't perform for them? Would it fudge, they would have just had to ask their owner for some more money.

We are on a different playing field to most other teams, we CANNOT refuse such big money. Even if we finish 17th we will have lost only 5m on last season, not 17m. The books have to balance.

People seem to believe that decisions are being purposefully made at the detriment to the club. It's crazy

[gazsimm]

Paul Ince was not the fault for Bentley and Brad leaving. It could have been Hughes or who ever took over at Rovers they wanted to leave and rovers were allways to sell them once they had recieved the right bid. I seem to remember as well when Ince first took over at Rovers, his first priority was to try and keep Bentley at the club, but his decision had allready been made and when the right club came in for him with the right price he was off.

[Al]

Villa have benefitted?

Do you think that has more to do with having a billionaire owner?

Do you think if Bentley had carried on and had continued to sulk we would still get 17 (or 15) million for him?

Do you think that would threaten the future of the club, especially as we are in the midst of a financial crisis?

Would it have threatened Villa if Barry didn't perform for them? Would it fudge, they would have just had to ask their owner for some more money.

We are on a different playing field to most other teams, we CANNOT refuse such big money. Even if we finish 17th we will have lost only 5m on last season, not 17m. The books have to balance.

People seem to believe that decisions are being purposefully made at the detriment to the club. It's crazy

Who told you Rovers were in the midst of a financial crisis? Nobody as far as I know. They are not at the mercy of the stock market.

That being the case we did not have to sell anybody. You will make up anything to support your pathetically argumentative nature wont you.

I have lost patience with you. Time for the ignore button I think.