[Archived] Paul's Progress

[philipl]

Villa have benefitted?

Do you think that has more to do with having a billionaire owner?

Do you think if Bentley had carried on and had continued to sulk we would still get 17 (or 15) million for him?

Do you think that would threaten the future of the club, especially as we are in the midst of a financial crisis?

Would it have threatened Villa if Barry didn't perform for them? Would it fudge, they would have just had to ask their owner for some more money.

We are on a different playing field to most other teams, we CANNOT refuse such big money. Even if we finish 17th we will have lost only 5m on last season, not 17m. The books have to balance.

People seem to believe that decisions are being purposefully made at the detriment to the club. It's crazy

Bucky, you are getting silly now.

It is now £750K per place prize money.

John Williams made it 100% clear that Rovers had absolutely no need to sell as will be shown when the annual accounts come out.

[Paul]

I disagree completely that Ince wasn't a star player Paul, When I think of outstanding ball winning midfielders over the last twenty years Batty and Ince were head and shoulders above anyone else I ever saw. Do you not remember him playing for England in Rome with his head soaked in blood through a large Basil Fawlty style bandage?

I vaguely remember the Rome thing but doubt I would have done if you hadn't mentioned it but then I don't really follow England that much. I think the star thing is very much in the eye of the beholder. Personally I wouldn't describe Batty as a star but at the same time I would agree 100% with your assessment of his abilities. I'm probably guilty of thinking of Sparky as a star because he was a striker, not to say I don't think other positions can't be stars - Colin Hendry will always be a star in my eyes. My feeling about Ince is probably more connected with who he played for and his reputation as a player, deserved or not.

Sure Hughes was also a brilliant player but I rather think the reason he finished so much higher in the poll than Ince was that the RFW branded (wrongly he now admits) Ince "a champagne charlie" and he went on to play for Inter and more to the point their arch rivals Liverpool.

I wasn't so much commenting about the gap but more about the fact someone bothered to regsiter Ince was the 39th most popular player at Utd. It's a nothing position so why was it ever mentioned, that's what amuses me.

[RevidgeBlue]

If I can see that the toy wasnt broken like many others, then why try to fix it ?

BRFC needed TLC not wholesale changes, we have gone from being a solid 7th best team in the league to being amongst the also rans for relegation candidates, its really hard to stomach after the progress we have made.

I totally disagree on that, and I think it's where a lot of the Ince bashing falls down.

Things were going swimmimngly up until this point almost exactly twelve months ago when we won away at Spurs.

Unfortunately Savage sustained a serious injury during the course of that game, never really returned, and imo we have never been quite the same side since. Our points ratio from that time onwards has been roughly the same as it has been this season. No money was made available for a replacement in Jan despite Sav's sale. The manager could obviously see the problems that were mounting up for the future hence his apparent desperation to bail out in favour of the shipwrecks that were Ashley's Newcastle and Sinewatra's City.

Ince has come in, has lost two key players through no fault of his own and is trying to introduce a different style of play.

So whilst Ince didn't inherit a shambles like Hughes did from Souness, he did inherit a squad and team clearly on the decline imo.

[Paul]

So please- paul, 1864, philip - stop spouting lies. i understand you dont like him - that's your prerogative. But as valued members of the message board that I've always enjoyed reading your opinions, it seems like you're all choosing to peddle something that is so far wrong with the reality, that I have to question your motives.

Andy please slow down, I'm not spouting lies. I've said very little about Paul Ince until today. I've only expressed my opinion that I felt excited when we signed Hughes the player and I would not have done had we signed Ince - I wasn't talking about them arriving as managers.

I went on to say I felt Hughes has an authority in his manner which gave me a real belief in his management. I went to games expecting to win. I don't get this feeling about Ince but I don't think I've criticised him, in fact I praised the team performance against Boro and from what Martin O'Neil said today it seems we played very well at Villa. It may be daft but watching Sparky on the touchline one saw a man well dressed, looking the part, appearing confident in his abilities, managing his team. I don't get this from Ince, in fact I see the reverse. I agree with hindsight it seems the very poor second half of last season was probably as much to do with Hughes being ready to go as it was the team underperforming. I have nothing against Ince, I want Rovers to do well but Paul Ince does not inspire me, I can't help it this is how I feel. I think we are better off with Robinson than Friedel, Grella looks good on the basis of one game, Villanueva excites me, Simpson I was wrong about, I like Warnock in midfield. On the other hand I haven't seen anyhting from Andrews yet. So I have far more positives than negatives BUT Paul Ince AND the news coming from the club this season doesn't inspire me, something is wrong somewhere.

[RevidgeBlue]

Losing the confidence of the Board in the rest of the Summer transfer window (only a blinkered person can fail to see that is the case). BIG THUMBS DOWN

Whoa there

hang on, are you changing tack completely on the line you have been peddling recently that:

"Ince had a shedload of money in the summer, but didn't know how to spend it"

to

"Ince did have a shedload of money to spend but now hasn't because the Board lost confidence in him"?

Ingenious if you are, because no-one will ever be able to prove you were right or wrong either way!

Priceless. You really couldn't make half this stuff up if you tried.

[1864roverite]

Rev

I read yr opinion and accept your point of view.

Rovers on the whole did not and do not warrant a wholesale changeover of players, I am certain that if Hughes had not spit his dummy at not being able to speak to the barcodes he would have put a little tlc into the team rather than big changes.

its now very much the same, we can see the players can adapt to one touch slick passing football, what we still have is players out of position, players playing in unfamiliar and disliked roles and that is having the negative effect on the fans and the team.

That much is plain to see.

I dont buy the excuses and tittle tattle put out in the media about time etc, because Ince has over 25yrs in the game, Matthias over 40yrs in the game and Knox even longer. so they are experienced guys.

[RevidgeBlue]

Rev

I read yr opinion and accept your point of view.

Rovers on the whole did not and do not warrant a wholesale changeover of players, I am certain that if Hughes had not spit his dummy at not being able to speak to the barcodes he would have put a little tlc into the team rather than big changes.

its now very much the same, we can see the players can adapt to one touch slick passing football, what we still have is players out of position, players playing in unfamiliar and disliked roles and that is having the negative effect on the fans and the team.

That much is plain to see.

I dont buy the excuses and tittle tattle put out in the media about time etc, because Ince has over 25yrs in the game, Matthias over 40yrs in the game and Knox even longer. so they are experienced guys.

He wasn't asked.

As for players being forced to play out of position, who are they?

Warnock has been a resounding success in midfield, Derbs was constantly asked by Hughes to play out wide (on the right) as well and the only real accident waiting to happen as far as I can see is Ooijer playing on the wrong side of the pitch at LB to accomodate switching Warnock.

Don't want to make excuses but I think we've lost what would have been our first choice central midfield (Dunn/Grella) to injury and similarly our talisman up front RSC has never got going due to injury so far this term. I do think it's down to Ince and the coaching staff to get a passable contribution out of Roberts/Derbs/Benni/Carlos/Fowler or if they can't, ship them out and get strikers in who can.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

BUT, he told the good guy (Brad) he had to stay until a replacement was signed but let the bad guy (Bentley) leave without a replacement.

Villa showed the way how to deal with this sort of situation and are reaping the benefit. We capitualted and I repeat we have not received nor are guarranteed to receive the £17m asking price.

I think there is a significant difference :-

1. Let Brad go and we are left with Brown (and basically, at that time, nobody else)

2. Ince stated numerous times that we had Reid and Emo to cover that position (and even Dunn) - IMO Emo has actually done a lot better in the right midfield role than he has historically - creating a number of goals with some excellent crossing. I also think they had high hopes for Judge - injuries probably costing him a run of games on the bench.

3. We don't know what was going on in the background to replace Bentley - maybe a deal was set up that fell through ?

I am also not totally convinced that RM was the highest priority - when our best midfield performers were a 38 yr old and a player with an horrendous injury record.

Admittedly Grella has been injured - but without the signings of Grella and Andrews where would our midfield be now ?

[1864roverite]

Derbyshire out left or out right insteead of centre forward

Ooijer right back, left back instead of centre back

Warnock central midfield instead of left back

Emerton central midfield instead of the right wing

Villeneuve central midfield (or behind the front/in front of the midfield)

Olsson left midfield instead of left back

Reid right back/central midfield instead of right midfield

Thats what we are talking about Rev.

I am not saying that Warnock hasnt been a success because he has but that is because he give 100% each game he plays.

the other players, out of position clearly dont have the same ethic.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I can't believe that some people are of the opinion that the side only needed tweaking. We were far too dependent on Bentley's assists and goals last season, so when he left, to my mind it was inconceivable that we would be able to replace his productivity through one signing. Firstly, the market value for his productivity was 18 million, and secondly, even if that sum had been available, any player worth that much wouldn't join us.

The fact is that the rest of the midfield and the second striker were not good enough last season and, since we could never replace Bentley like for like, that has needed addressing. Whether or not Ince's signings do that remain to be seen, but we still need 2 wingers better than Bert and MGP before we'll know.

The defence also, as has been pointed out earlier, hasn't been good enough for years now, I would say since Craig Short retired. Ince should be looking at signing a Short/Moran in January who can actually read the game and organise a defence.

And as to the constant bleating about Ince, having a negative opinion is fine, but from some posters it comes out again and again every time Ince picks a team or we don't win. It reminds me of teenagers whose parents have split up, the mum has got a new fella and they hate everything about him because he isn't their dad and never will be. The point being, he's here now and almost certainly not going away anytime soon, so this constant griping is only making the people concerned even more miserable.

[Exiled_Rover]

I think Ooijer reads the game well, he just isn't a very good fullback. I'd still partner him with Zurab for a few games (with Warnock/Olsson and Simpson at fullback) to see how they get on. Samba can be exceptional, but he makes too many simple mistakes and Nelsen hasn't been the same since that hamstring injury.

I agree we need two quick wingers, especially if Ince persists with this formation of one upfront......whether we can afford it is another matter. I still wouldn't pay £5m for Villenueva, but that's just me.

[AndyC]

Andy please slow down, I'm not spouting lies. I've said very little about Paul Ince until today. I've only expressed my opinion that I felt excited when we signed Hughes the player and I would not have done had we signed Ince - I wasn't talking about them arriving as managers.

I went on to say I felt Hughes has an authority in his manner which gave me a real belief in his management. I went to games expecting to win. I don't get this feeling about Ince but I don't think I've criticised him, in fact I praised the team performance against Boro and from what Martin O'Neil said today it seems we played very well at Villa. It may be daft but watching Sparky on the touchline one saw a man well dressed, looking the part, appearing confident in his abilities, managing his team. I don't get this from Ince, in fact I see the reverse. I agree with hindsight it seems the very poor second half of last season was probably as much to do with Hughes being ready to go as it was the team underperforming. I have nothing against Ince, I want Rovers to do well but Paul Ince does not inspire me, I can't help it this is how I feel. I think we are better off with Robinson than Friedel, Grella looks good on the basis of one game, Villanueva excites me, Simpson I was wrong about, I like Warnock in midfield. On the other hand I haven't seen anyhting from Andrews yet. So I have far more positives than negatives BUT Paul Ince AND the news coming from the club this season doesn't inspire me, something is wrong somewhere.

fair enough paul - this is all about opinions after all.

it would be interesting for all of us to actually speak to a selection of players to see what they think!

Derbyshire out left or out right insteead of centre forward. HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE ON THE PITCH REGARDLESS OF POSITION!!

Ooijer right back, left back instead of centre back HUGHES DID THE SAME

Warnock central midfield instead of left back GREAT MOVE.

Emerton central midfield instead of the right wing. ENFORCED ON HIM DUE TO INJURIES>.

Villeneuve central midfield (or behind the front/in front of the midfield) I'M NOT CONVINCED YET

Olsson left midfield instead of left back HE'S LEARNING EVERY GAME.

Reid right back/central midfield instead of right midfield INJURIES

[philipl]

Whoa there

hang on, are you changing tack completely on the line you have been peddling recently that:

"Ince had a shedload of money in the summer, but didn't know how to spend it"

to

"Ince did have a shedload of money to spend but now hasn't because the Board lost confidence in him"?

Ingenious if you are, because no-one will ever be able to prove you were right or wrong either way!

Priceless. You really couldn't make half this stuff up if you tried.

Both I think are backed up by what we saw happen in July and August. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me-

Shedload of money: We offered £9.5m all up for Joaquin if he triggered all payments. Joaquin's agent publicly confirmed the bid and its value and Valencia's Vice-President equally publicly rejected it.

As time went by

Didn't know how to spend it: Repeated comments about videos being desperately watched and checked. One of the arguments in favour of a Director of Football is that the club's entire knowledge base of prospects does not walk out when the Manager changes- DoF brings many other problems but there is a common perception that Ince and his team were not up to date with Premier League level players.

Increasing lack of confidence from JW and the Board: Nicko must have commented at least three times as the Andrews and Fowler sagas dragged on and on (to the backdrop of supporters being very concerned that they seemed to be the Manager's major focus) that it eventually boils down to whether they backed the Manager or not. We didn't sign the centre forward from Macclesfield we were repeatedly linked with.

That's some of the stuff in the public domain.

I think it is fair to comment that the smooth operation in the transfer market that existed under Hughes/Williams right from the start (which yielded the likes of Savage, Bellamy, McCarthy, Warnock, Bentley, Santa Cruz- all of whom could be argued to be "Rovers punching above their weight" signings) was replaced by something more shambolic this summer.

[CrazyIvan]

Both I think are backed up by what we saw happen in July and August. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me-

Shedload of money: We offered £9.5m all up for Joaquin if he triggered all payments. Joaquin's agent publicly confirmed the bid and its value and Valencia's Vice-President equally publicly rejected it.

As time went by

Didn't know how to spend it: Repeated comments about videos being desperately watched and checked. One of the arguments in favour of a Director of Football is that the club's entire knowledge base of prospects does not walk out when the Manager changes- DoF brings many other problems but there is a common perception that Ince and his team were not up to date with Premier League level players.

Increasing lack of confidence from JW and the Board: Nicko must have commented at least three times as the Andrews and Fowler sagas dragged on and on (to the backdrop of supporters being very concerned that they seemed to be the Manager's major focus) that it eventually boils down to whether they backed the Manager or not. We didn't sign the centre forward from Macclesfield we were repeatedly linked with.

That's some of the stuff in the public domain.

I think it is fair to comment that the smooth operation in the transfer market that existed under Hughes/Williams right from the start (which yielded the likes of Savage, Bellamy, McCarthy, Warnock, Bentley, Santa Cruz- all of whom could be argued to be "Rovers punching above their weight" signings) was replaced by something more shambolic this summer.

The only thing I'll say on this is that all of this was rumour and conjecture in the press, maybe some was well informed and maybe some was pure fiction. I don't seriously think the club would go from supporting the manager with one attempted purchase to not supporting him regarding others in the space of a few weeks. I never saw any comments anywhere about 'videos being desperately watched and checked', Carlos is the only person I think where videos were used. If you can produce the quotes and articles I'll quite happily retract that.

As for increasing lack of confidence. I heard that on here but nowhere else. Again produce the evidence and I'll be happy. We know Andrews and Fowler dragged on and we don't really know why apart from the club trying it's hardest to get the best deal. We didn't sign a lot of players we were linked with, a hell of a lot so I don't see this link with the Macc centre forward as being anything other than rumour again.

You think it's fair to comment that the smooth operation in the transfer market was changed to something more shambolic, seriously how can you possibly know? We don't know much about the clubs transfer dealing because Hughes kept his dealings very close to his chest. A lot of stuff was written in the gutter press and on some very very dodgy sites so we have no clear idea what has actually gone on!

Please can you provide the proof to back up your post.

[philipl]

I have put the stuff which is in the public domain up there and asked people whether my memory is playing tricks on me or not.

The important issue is whether the disfunctionality we saw in August has been sorted out and whether Paul Ince has the pulling power with outstanding players (whom we admittedly struggle to keep hold of) to bring them to Ewood in the way we have grown accustomed on a regular basis.

[MCMC1875]

I have put the stuff which is in the public domain up there and asked people whether my memory is playing tricks on me or not.

The important issue is whether the disfunctionality we saw in August has been sorted out and whether Paul Ince has the pulling power with outstanding players (whom we admittedly struggle to keep hold of) to bring them to Ewood in the way we have grown accustomed on a regular basis.

The sniper on the grassy knoll!

[CrazyIvan]

I have put the stuff which is in the public domain up there and asked people whether my memory is playing tricks on me or not.

The important issue is whether the disfunctionality we saw in August has been sorted out and whether Paul Ince has the pulling power with outstanding players (whom we admittedly struggle to keep hold of) to bring them to Ewood in the way we have grown accustomed on a regular basis.

I think you have got some of the things mixed up and have read way too much into dodgy articles in newspapers and on the internet.

As for this alleged disfunctionality again gutter press and rumour monger sites. We shall see if Paul Ince has the pulling power for decent players but who seriously thought Santa Cruz was going to turn out the way he did when he was signed? My point on that is don't expect massive name signings, Rovers just don't have the money for them. I think we may see Ince taking a punt on some relative unknowns as Hughes did with Nelsen and Samba. Time will tell.

[thenodrog]

The sniper on the grassy knoll!

Off topic but whilst we are on the subject, cue a mind boggling fact that I heard on TV during the summer........

Did you know that there are approx twice as many people alive on the planet today as were in existence then?

[DingleBaiter]

Both I think are backed up by what we saw happen in July and August. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me-

....

I think it is fair to comment that the smooth operation in the transfer market that existed under Hughes/Williams right from the start (which yielded the likes of Savage, Bellamy, McCarthy, Warnock, Bentley, Santa Cruz- all of whom could be argued to be "Rovers punching above their weight" signings) was replaced by something more shambolic this summer.

Fair points Philip, but don't forget Hughes's abdication ran much deeper than the four bench-men of the Taffia. Every element of Ince's reign was in the deep end - not just the obvious player issues - so for you to refer to the DOF argument and yet overlook the decapitation of the whole scouting & records system isn't really offering your normal balanced argument. Ince's 'shambles' are not entirely of his own making, granted certain things may not have helped his cause but ignorance of the real issue he faced needs to be resolved to consider the situation fairly.

For the record, it's simply not the case to presume that JW knew all the players Hughes was assessing - only when a player had been identified to be approached did JW get involved with Hughes. The system that brought through the 'punching above their weight' went when Hughes did - because of Hughes, not Ince.

As for expecting similar calibre players that Hughes brought in, i.e. ex stars that may have a good season left in them (Benedict), guys with something to prove that may have been run out/overlooked/stale elsewhere (Bellamy, RSC), guys he knew would do a job for him (Savage - same argument for Ince bringing Andrews in BTW), or relative punts that come good (Samba, Nelsen, Moko (to some degree) - it's not going to happen, but not for the reason people would like to think.

Let's remember Hughes was told clearly, in no uncertain terms, that more money would be being invested into the long-term (the Academy overhaul) than would have been available for transfers in the short-term. This is a matter of public record, not some t'internet tittle-tattle; you should know the danger of taking single-source information by now Philip, crikey wars in Iraq have been waged for less

Disclaimer - fully appreciate the job Nicko did for everyone in the summer, and his influence is both direct (on here) and indirect (other people nicking his stories, adding to them, reading into them, etc.) However, IF he hadn't been doing such a sterling job, perhaps there wouldn't be as much of this 'public record' stuff? Then again, it wouldn't be much fun adopting the Chinese approach I guess.

[philipl]

The only Nicko quote I used was the oft-repeated one he made about whether the Board would back the Manager's judgement on Andrews and Fowler as those dragged on and on.

The LT ran the video-watching and getting caught up stuff.

The comments from Joaquin's agent and then by the Vice President of Valencia confirming Rovers had bid E10m rising to E12m then rejecting it were obviously made in Spain and picked up by all the UK news agencies.

The Macclesfield player stuff seemed to come from a number of sources because it tended to be differently worded but it might have been the player's agent being smart enough to use different angles with each journo he fed. However, there was none of the Rovers and two other Prem clubs nonsense- it was all very to the point.

DB. I agree that losing Hughes and the team wiped out the club's knowledge base but the point I am making that the incoming management group seemed not to have its own knowledge base until they appointed the Chief Scout taking him from the Liverpool youth set-up I believe.

OK this is me moving from fact to speculation, but you could understand that on discovering that reality, the Board could well have got nervous about making the transfer kitty funds readily available.

[leftfooter]

Off topic but whilst we are on the subject, cue a mind boggling fact that I heard on TV during the summer........

Did you know that there are approx twice as many people alive on the planet today as were in existence then?

That's why, using the logic of Adam Smith, we're due a catastrophic pandemic and/or series of global conflicts of cataclysmic proportions.

The 4 horsemen of the apocalypse on the grassy knoll anybody?

[CrazyIvan]

The only Nicko quote I used was the oft-repeated one he made about whether the Board would back the Manager's judgement on Andrews and Fowler as those dragged on and on.

The LT ran the video-watching and getting caught up stuff.

The comments from Joaquin's agent and then by the Vice President of Valencia confirming Rovers had bid E10m rising to E12m then rejecting it were obviously made in Spain and picked up by all the UK news agencies.

The Macclesfield player stuff seemed to come from a number of sources because it tended to be differently worded but it might have been the player's agent being smart enough to use different angles with each journo he fed. However, there was none of the Rovers and two other Prem clubs nonsense- it was all very to the point.

DB. I agree that losing Hughes and the team wiped out the club's knowledge base but the point I am making that the incoming management group seemed not to have its own knowledge base until they appointed the Chief Scout taking him from the Liverpool youth set-up I believe.

OK this is me moving from fact to speculation, but you could understand that on discovering that reality, the Board could well have got nervous about making the transfer kitty funds readily available.

I've been through the LT's articles and can't find mention of Ince watching videos anywhere, certainly not 'desperately' as you put it. Watching videos of foreign players is commonplace anyway so I'm not sure that's actually a criticism at all.

Joaquin - Google it, all you will find is the caveat 'reports suggest' which broadly speaking means not very much. Did the club ever confirm that bid? I very much doubt the figures were ever quoted accurately even if a bid was made. Apparently Everton and Newcastle were also interested in Joaquin if those same sites are to be beleived.

As I said before, Rovers were linked with many players and nothing came of any of them so a tenuous link to the Macc forward suggests absolutely nothing.

As for making funds available, the LT was quite open about Rovers trying to sign a right winger on the last day of the transfer window but were unsucessful so that doesn't say anything about the lack of trust in Ince does it? See it here.

[nicko]

I've been through the LT's articles and can't find mention of Ince watching videos anywhere, certainly not 'desperately' as you put it. Watching videos of foreign players is commonplace anyway so I'm not sure that's actually a criticism at all.

Joaquin - Google it, all you will find is the caveat 'reports suggest' which broadly speaking means not very much. Did the club ever confirm that bid? I very much doubt the figures were ever quoted accurately even if a bid was made. Apparently Everton and Newcastle were also interested in Joaquin if those same sites are to be beleived.

As I said before, Rovers were linked with many players and nothing came of any of them so a tenuous link to the Macc forward suggests absolutely nothing.

As for making funds available, the LT was quite open about Rovers trying to sign a right winger on the last day of the transfer window but were unsucessful so that doesn't say anything about the lack of trust in Ince does it? See it here.

One or two things you might want to recollect.

ANDREWS and FOWLER...did take a lot of negotiating behind the scenes...check it out.

JOAQUIN...was a live interest...I don't quite see the point of that debate.

MACC FORWARD...I think you will find he has been training on and off at Rovers...he can't move until January anyway.

VIDEOS...that was all revealed and confirmed...again, what's the issue?

RIGHT WINGER ON DEADLINE DAY...went for Pennant among others...no great loss.

The point that really counts here is HOW MUCH the new manager will have to spend in January and on what areas?

Everything else is history.

[speeeeeeedie]

Here's an article regarding Portsmouth. We don't get a mention but talks about Adams taking over; Portsmouth changes. I think it relates well to our situation.

[RevidgeBlue]

Both I think are backed up by what we saw happen in July and August. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me-

Shedload of money: We offered £9.5m all up for Joaquin if he triggered all payments. Joaquin's agent publicly confirmed the bid and its value and Valencia's Vice-President equally publicly rejected it.

As time went by

Didn't know how to spend it: Repeated comments about videos being desperately watched and checked. One of the arguments in favour of a Director of Football is that the club's entire knowledge base of prospects does not walk out when the Manager changes- DoF brings many other problems but there is a common perception that Ince and his team were not up to date with Premier League level players.

Increasing lack of confidence from JW and the Board: Nicko must have commented at least three times as the Andrews and Fowler sagas dragged on and on (to the backdrop of supporters being very concerned that they seemed to be the Manager's major focus) that it eventually boils down to whether they backed the Manager or not. We didn't sign the centre forward from Macclesfield we were repeatedly linked with.

That's some of the stuff in the public domain.

I think it is fair to comment that the smooth operation in the transfer market that existed under Hughes/Williams right from the start (which yielded the likes of Savage, Bellamy, McCarthy, Warnock, Bentley, Santa Cruz- all of whom could be argued to be "Rovers punching above their weight" signings) was replaced by something more shambolic this summer.

I know we showed interest in Joaquin but don't recall that we ever lodged a formal bid for him, please provide a link.

Re: videos being watched - it seems increasingly the policy over the last few years to have a look at potential signings on trial first. Maybe there was a lack of confidence in Hughes as well? As for Andrews and Fowler it seems Ince wanted them, but only at a price and on the terms he wanted to pay. Leaving aside the debate on the players merits, nothing wrong with that per se.

As for your last comment, Robinson arrived bang on cue this summer the second Friedel left, Grella slipped in completely under everyone's radar, and the signings of Simpson and Carlos were relatively low key and uncomplicated so I'm not sure I agree.