[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Eddie]

I was not the only one on the chat room who have heard things this afternoon and I keep to what has already been posted on here- there are a number of previously regular fan posters who are very quiet.

Wes Brown got a massive new contract

Let's see what unravels at Ewood;

Ince is our manager- I want him to get his act together and put Rovers back into the top half of the division.

His inheritance was a chunking transfer fund far bigger than anything Hughes had and a club that took its UEFA Cup qualification chance to the last day plus regular Cup semi-final appearances.

Apart from joking about bottom three he said he wanted to build on what he came to. Well, please build ....

Some interesting comments here on this betting site.

You're starting to make yourself look silly. You've just quoted a crappy betting site that wrote short blurbs pre-season.

I hate to type this, but if I was a betting man, I'd have a few quid on a bottom three finish.

I've got about 600 pounds sitting on my betting account right now and I am willing to use all of it to take you up on that offer. So grow a pair or be quiet.

Do people now remember the months of almost every season under Hughes where things went wrong? The horrible performances and missed chances to pick up "easy" points? Have you all really convinced yourself that he was the messiah? Do you really think that no one supports Ince despite the fact that we have scored a goal at the death 3 games running, which surely shows that the players have fight and heart. What about the fact that he has done this without the player that carried Rovers last season and, until two games ago, the player who carried us the season before. What about the fact that the Ince regime has only revealed very clearly the huge problems that Hughes FAILED to address during his time here, the problems that many of us went on about for at least two seasons (ie the lack of pace, creativity in midfield and the fact that Nelsen isn't the player he was and that Samba had a few good months but really isn't as good as he's convinced a few that he is).

When Ince came into this team I honestly felt he needed to bring in a new striker, two central midfielders, a right back and a central defender and that is before we even talk about replacing Bentley or Robinson. Who seriously disagrees with that assessment? If you don't, then obviously everything was not as great under Hughes as people are making out. Add to that the fact that we are seeing an amazing bit of backtracking by several members of this board. This time last year the squad was being praised as the best since '95, but now Hughes did amazing jobs to get the kind of performances he did out of his team.

Some of you are anti-Ince, just admit it. It is stupid, seeing as he is in charge of the club you claim to love and you aren't even giving him a chance. You aren't being constructive. You aren't helping the cause. You don't have insider knowledge. You don't know what the players feel. All I can say is you are one more fan who doesn't like him, it really is as simple as that. You are just a fan not supporting the team properly.

[Exiled in Toronto]

There's little qualitative difference between 7th and 17th in this league, especially this season. I was stunned to see in the latest league table that only one team outside the top 5 has a positive goal difference; nine teams have -5 or worse! So whoever was in charge, this season was always going to be a squeaky bum one.

I don't know if Ince is the right man or not, and we did undoubtedly take a chance on someone with such little managerial experience. Personally, I would have been more worried of he had splashed the cash in the summer after such little time to assess the squad and scout premiership-quality replacements. Williams must have known that the MK Dons manager would not have been already scouting Bentley-type players in his previous job. No excuse in January though, assuming the money is still there, which I am far from convinced about. Though if we are in the bottom 3, it probably will be a la the Andy Cole signing.

For all the people who are convinced Ince isn't good enough, you might want to save your breathe and typing when you consider what must happen for him to be successfully replaced:

- Williams has to have the humility to admit he made a mistake

- Williams has to have the cojones to sack him

- Williams has to have the contacts, charisma and deep transfer budget to attract someone better, who can hit the ground running in terms of being able to buy better players

- and all before the January window!

I don't think any of the above will happen, let alone all of it.

[ABBEY]

We currently have/had:

Grella

Dunn

Emerton

Reid

RSC

Ooijer

missing with injuries, that is SIX players who arguably start for Rovers missing from the squad, RSC is our most important player and Dunn is probably our most creative player. A club like Rovers cannot afford to have that many players out, I really hope Emerton's injury is not long term and that Grella remains fit as it could be a desperate situation leading up to christmas.

It must be frustrating for PI as he has said a number of times he wants to select a settled team and he cannot. I would be interested to see how many different teams he has chosen this season based on injuries incurred, I cannot recall an unchanged side thus far (I may be wrong)

Sunderland at home on November 15th looks a massive 6 pointer to me and a game we simply have to get 3 points from.

aye and other teams dont suffer injuries.

[imy9]

aye and other teams dont suffer injuries.

No you are right, please find me a team that is missing SIX players that would walk into the first 11 who are currently in a higher league position than us.

West Ham are probably the closest in terms of injuries and they in a complete spiral downwards.

I am not making excuses for Ince but the fact remains when you are a new manager you want a settled side and when you have this level of injuries it makes your life very difficult, especially when the calibre of player is not great after the first 11.

That being said we need to be grittier under Ince and if we have to sacrifice some good football, then so be it, 3 points must come first at this stage of the season.

[MarkBRFC71]

As much as I hope to be wrong, based on what I've seen so far under Ince's tenure the season will end in one of two ways - Ince's sacking or Championship football.

Our defence is shambolic, our strikers look toothless, and although our midfield can play nice tippy-tappy passes it never goes anywhere.

Everything about this situation feels like Brian Kidd's reign, and we all know how that ended.

[1864roverite]

That Mark has hit the nail right on the head.

We play pretty tip tap football with no end result and concede stupid goals, losing vital points.

I may sound anti PI but the reality is, is that I am reserving judgement. So far, I have seen nothing whatsoever to convince me he is the right manager for Rovers.

Negatives for me -

bad defensive lapses

poor tactcial substitutions

too many players out of position

inexperienced back room team

lack of firepower threat

no creativity in the middle for the forwards

some players just not interested

no real work ethic

poor transfer dealings

positives

prettier football

it hasnt done it for me so far

[imy9]

That Mark has hit the nail right on the head.

We play pretty tip tap football with no end result and concede stupid goals, losing vital points.

I may sound anti PI but the reality is, is that I am reserving judgement. So far, I have seen nothing whatsoever to convince me he is the right manager for Rovers.

Negatives for me -

bad defensive lapses- HUGHES' TEAM DID SAME.

poor tactcial substitutions- HUGHES' DID THE SAME- PI has been better,HOW MANY OF HIS SUBS HAVE HAD AN IMPACT THIS SEASON, EXAMPLE IS BENNI AGAINST BORO.

too many players out of position- HUGHES AGAIN DID THE SAME

inexperienced back room team- KNOX? BEST SPORTS SCIENCE BLOKE IN THE COUNTRY?

lack of firepower threat- ALL FORWARDS ARE HUGHES PLAYERS, MAIN THREAT INJURED

no creativity in the middle for the forwards- DUNN IS INJURED, WHO DID HUGHES HAVE?

some players just not interested- WHICH ONES?

no real work ethic- REALLY? WHY DO WE SCORE SO MANY GOALS IN THE FINAL THIRD OF GAMES IF THERE IS NO WORK ETHIC?

poor transfer dealings- YOU CAN MAKE A JUDGEMENT AFTER 11 GAMES? ROBINSON, GRELLA, CARLOS, SIMPSON. ANDREWS HAVE ALL SHOWN POTENTIAL AT SOME POINT ALREADY, DO THEY NOT DESERVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AFTER THAT?

positives

prettier football

it hasnt done it for me so far

positives for me:

1. Better football being played.

2. Youth team players are being blooded into the first team.

3. Weak positions are identified and players have been bought in, e.g. right back, DM (two positions Hughes did nothing about once Neill and Sav left)

[AggyBlue]

That Mark has hit the nail right on the head.

We play pretty tip tap football with no end result and concede stupid goals, losing vital points.

I may sound anti PI but the reality is, is that I am reserving judgement. So far, I have seen nothing whatsoever to convince me he is the right manager for Rovers.

Negatives for me -

bad defensive lapses

poor tactcial substitutions

too many players out of position

inexperienced back room team

lack of firepower threat

no creativity in the middle for the forwards

some players just not interested

no real work ethic

poor transfer dealings

positives

prettier football

it hasnt done it for me so far

You sure are Re read your posts from August onwards.

[speeeeeeedie]

I may sound anti PI but the reality is, is that I am reserving judgement. So far, I have seen nothing whatsoever to convince me he is the right manager for Rovers.

Pull the other one. I've read your comments from yesterday's game and there's no reserving going on; you can't stand him.

Blackburn Rovers are no longer an elite force in English football. We are a small town team doing well thanks to the foundations laid by the club's benefactor before he died, which have been followed through by an astute chairman and some good managers. Rovers average sub-25,000 gates, reside in an economically depressed part of England, have no international following, and are 30 minutes from 2 of the world's biggest clubs. What do the naysayers want?

Those who think we should be playing champagne football beating all and sundry are either living in cloud cuckoo land or have found a time machine to transport them back to 1994.

[rover6]

Ince has not been able to put out a settled team. That is a crucial factor. I think that when we (if we) get a consistent eleven going out every week, we will pick up.

Injuries are interfering but Ince has also got to act on his convictions and decide on his best eleven. These weekly tinkerings are not good for a team seriously lacking identity. Imo, the current midfield, Warnock, Grella, Andrews, Emerton should be stuck with for the next games, injuries permitting.

[MarkBRFC71]

Those who think we should be playing champagne football beating all and sundry are either living in cloud cuckoo land or have found a time machine to transport them back to 1994.

Neither should we be rolling over and dying when we play any of the big clubs like we have done this season, or looking like the players only met each other 20 minutes before kick-off.

You don't need money, huge gates or a vast international following to be reasonably successful - you just need to be well organised, work and play hard, tactically aware and astute and not be overawed by the reputations of who you're playing. Unfortunately we've never been all of these is a single game this season, and to be honest not even close in most. An example to us would be Hull City, who are displaying all of those qualities in droves. It's no coincidence that they are where they are, and we are where we are.

[Amo]

Blackburn Rovers are no longer an elite force in English football. We are a small town team doing well thanks to the foundations laid by the club's benefactor before he died, which have been followed through by an astute chairman and some good managers. Rovers average sub-25,000 gates, reside in an economically depressed part of England, have no international following, and are 30 minutes from 2 of the world's biggest clubs. What do the naysayers want?

We were the seventh best team in the Premiership last season. The league table doesn't lie. You're essentially saying the club was lucky to have successful managers. No. They were just doing their job.

I personally think Ince underestimated the job at hand, and then after a shaky start has decided to play us down as a little corner of the Premier League the same way you are doing now.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I think there's a very good chance that we'll get relegated; can't see why saying that is such a crime. Why?

1 We have a lot of injuries

2 The promoted teams are doing better than anyone would have expected

3 We spent less money than anyone else in the summer: our rivals strengthened while we didn't

4 We play some nice football and still get beat

5 We have been truly shocking against the top teams, who we usually match in effort if not ability

6 Paul Ince does not convince me as a manager

So no talk of large amounts of money or the size of ###### thanks.

[1864roverite]

Then perhaps my judgement is nearing an end.

Having had the benefit of watching Rovers through many many seasons with different managers, and some with even less skilled staff than we have today, I have NEVER in my blue and white life felt so disillusioned about Rovers.

Even in the darkest days of Div 3 football, the near relegation back to div 3, the poor showing in Div 2, the inept relegation to Div 1 and the dark days of Hodgsons/Kidd last stands, the last days of Souness, the last days of Saxton, McKay, Pickering, Iley and the like, it has been poor fare on show. EVEN with Hughes at the helm, it was bad at times I know.

That is my opinion and I for one, hope it improves for Ince (or whoever may be in charge). The stark reality of it is, is that it WONT, not at least until its after Christmas and only then will it be too late.

To be a Rover is to fight against everything else because we are such a small outfit football wise, but believe me, this club is heading into oblivion in its current manner.

The crowds are getting smaller each and every home game

The games are being lost or drawn with a poor show on offer

There is little to get excited about

No one wants to invest in the club

It seems, on the face of it, that players such as RSC want out despite the new contract

Thats my view after all these years, if you dont like it employ the ignore button.

Its sad becasue Blackburn Rovers have suddenly not become a bad football team overnight and players do not become bad players.

Something is amiss at Ewood Park.

[AggyBlue]

I think there's a very good chance that we'll get relegated; can't see why saying that is such a crime.

It's not a crime, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

However if you repeat it over and over, day after day, as some other posters do, you will pi$$ people off.

[Paul Mellelieu]

It's not a crime, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

However if you repeat it over and over, day after day, as some other posters do, you will pi$$ people off.

I think I've said it twice.

[LeChuck]

Ince has not been able to put out a settled team.

The defence has been pretty settled though, at least in terms personnel available, the chopping and changing has been mainly Ince's own doing.

I think a lot of people are glossing over the fact that we have the worst defence in the league at present. Until that's sorted out then our problems on the wings etc. are completely irrelevant. I don't wish to point the finger at Winterburn, but I voiced my doubts about bringing in a completely unqualified person to coach the defence, and those fears seem to have been proven valid so far.

[speeeeeeedie]

We were the seventh best team in the Premiership last season. The league table doesn't lie. You're essentially saying the club was lucky to have successful managers. No. They were just doing their job.

I am not saying that. I'm saying that their are too many on here throwing fits after 11 games into our new manager's reign; it's ridiculous.

[Amo]

Fans have a right to be cautious after the tenures of Hodgson & Kidd. I'm sure people were patient with them and came to regret it. If we just believe we're little old Blackburn who are lucky to punch above their weight, then the club will fall into mid-table mediocrity or worse. Like I said, Ince started out as if he wanted to really build on what Mark Hughes had done, but lately he's been playing us down at every opportunity.

[Jan]

I think I've said it twice.

You're correct. You were one of the few who didn't take a side, and I'm glad to see you're coming over to the right one. Someone wittered on about "the football being better- which is what matters". WRONG. The only important thing in football is to get the round thing into the big, rectangular netty thing more often than our opponents. End of. If you don't, you don't get points and no points means no prizes.

That's what we're careering towards with someone in charge who is simply not qualified for the job. It's beginning to look like rabbit in the headlights time. Here's hoping the car hits it and gets it over with quickly. Limiping along for months before finally dying would be the worst thing for all concerned.

[tony gale's mic]

Pull the other one. I've read your comments from yesterday's game and there's no reserving going on; you can't stand him.

Blackburn Rovers are no longer an elite force in English football. We are a small town team doing well thanks to the foundations laid by the club's benefactor before he died, which have been followed through by an astute chairman and some good managers. Rovers average sub-25,000 gates, reside in an economically depressed part of England, have no international following, and are 30 minutes from 2 of the world's biggest clubs. What do the naysayers want?

Those who think we should be playing champagne football beating all and sundry are either living in cloud cuckoo land or have found a time machine to transport them back to 1994.

Fact is that this is the same squad barring Bentley and Friedel that managed to attain three successive top 10 finishes and finished 7th last season. We've more often than not given the big four a hard time in games these last few seasons. Sure losing Bentley especially was a big blow, but on the flip side it gave Ince more money than Hughes had to spend on players and there was more than enough time to look for a replacement.

The "naysayers" just want us showing something approaching this sort of form, not having the joint second worst goal difference in the league, being four points off the drop zone (two points if either Newcastle or Bolton win their games in hand) and meek capitulations against the top sides. If everyone takes your attitude we'll slide into lower mid table, our best players will leave and we will continually slide back down to our true level as a football club, which let's face it is in the Championship. But we know we can do better.

[tcj_jones]

The defence has been pretty settled though, at least in terms personnel available, the chopping and changing has been mainly Ince's own doing.

I think a lot of people are glossing over the fact that we have the worst defence in the league at present. Until that's sorted out then our problems on the wings etc. are completely irrelevant. I don't wish to point the finger at Winterburn, but I voiced my doubts about bringing in a completely unqualified person to coach the defence, and those fears seem to have been proven valid so far.

LeChuck, you commented on our defence in the West Brom thread, to which I wrote this reply:

This is a criticism that should be levelled at Hughes rather than Ince IMO, for he has inherited a shaky defence and hasn't had the time nor the means to improve it. I have to say that I disagree with your view that our defence was a strong point under the last regime, because we didn't look capable of defending a set piece for the four seasons Hughes was in charge, we never had any pace at the back and I continue to witness the same individuals making mistakes over and over.

Funnily enough, Robinson, despite everybody's reservations, has actually been one of our best performers this season. He's cut out his mistakes in the air and is looking a quality replacement for Friedel.

I was wondering what your view on this was?

[tcj_jones]

Also, I agree with whoever presented the statistics on our hugely inferior possession in the West Brom game when they argued that this reflected the nature of the game, that it said everything.

HOWEVER, our possession against 'Boro, our territorial advantage, our passing success, our shots on and off target - everything - is evidence of the fact that we completely outplayed them in every department and probably deserved to win by two clear goals. Yet, there are the same detractors saying that we didn't play well. What absolute f'in rubbish! Fulham away is a similar story. We dictated the game, away from home, from start to finish with a brief 15 minute swing in teh second half. Yet, there are the detractors having a go at the team and at Ince. I have been utterly scathing of the side at times this season - West Ham away for example - but, for God's sake, we need to give credit where credit's due.

Ince came to the club when it was in crisis. His decision not to replace Bentley was hugely negligent and we miss terribly his presence, his all round game and his assists. However, considering the weak, unbalanced side he inherited, he's getting them to play pretty well. The reason we are underperforming, IMO, is three-fold:

1. The loss of Dunn has affected the side massively. He was our source of creativity and the only midfielder capable of attacking the opposition's defence and getting into good positions. He was the lynch pin in our side and we aren't the same without him.

2. We are having the majority of the play, but are failing to convert our chances. Ince did not have the financial means by which to solve this problem. Though his signing was an absolute waste of time and resources, you could argue that Ince tried to address this by signing Fowler. As it stands, he is having to rely on one of the worst finishers in the league in Roberts, Derbyshire, who has also missed some sitters this season and McCarthy, who is only just starting to get his act together.

3. Our defence is an utter shambles and has been for years now. Nelsen is not the player he was before his injury. For a captain, he doesn't even seem to be able to keep his own defence composed. Our defence 'boasts' a wealth of inexperience and lack of pace from hugely error prone individuals. We haven't been able to defend set pieces for the entire time I've been going to games (maybe five seasons now?) and this is one of the defence's most basic duties! IMO, until Ince gets some good men in to work with them, or replaces them altogether, we will continue to struggle. This has to be considered one of the less attractive parts of Hughes's legacy.

[tony gale's mic]

This is a criticism that should be levelled at Hughes rather than Ince IMO, for he has inherited a shaky defence and hasn't had the time nor the means to improve it. I have to say that I disagree with your view that our defence was a strong point under the last regime, because we didn't look capable of defending a set piece for the four seasons Hughes was in charge, we never had any pace at the back and I continue to witness the same individuals making mistakes over and over.

Funnily enough, Robinson, despite everybody's reservations, has actually been one of our best performers this season. He's cut out his mistakes in the air and is looking a quality replacement for Friedel.

He inherited a shaky defence?!

Under Hughes:

07/08 48 goals conceded in 38 games

06/07 54 goals conceded in 38 games

05/06 42 goals conceded in 38 games

Under Ince: 20 goals conceded in 11 games. At this rate we'll have conceded around 70 goals by the end of the season. And we've got Chelsea coming up next.

I agree we should reserve final judgement on him even though I'm not encouraged, but for people to say things that blatantly aren't true is a bit much...

[philipl]

Sorry tcj, shaky, solid or simply middling, apart from Brad for Robbo the defensive personnel is the same as Hughes had plus Ince had a cheque book to work with, at least at the start of his time in charge. The only change he has made is bringing Simpson in on loan who bleats about playing for Man U every time a reporter goes near him.

The difference is quality of management and if Ince had not watched every Rovers game last season on VT in the ten days between appointment and the players arriving back for pre-season he needed shooting.