[Archived] Paul's Progress

[LeChuck]

A completely hypothetical question here, but if we did continue our slide and ended up in the relegation zone, how long would most people be prepared to give Ince before wanting him to leave?

I only ask because I was thinking of Bolton and Wigan last season. Both were heading towards almost guaranteed relegation under Sammy Lee and Hutchings, but both realised their mistakes quite quickly and managed to save themselves thanks to taking swift action.

Personally, if we're there in the middle of December then I'd want him gone and another man to come in ready for the January transfer window. I think we'd be able to attract a good manager if they had a kitty of £10-£20 million to spend, which should be the case.

[CrazyIvan]

Hypothetically, I guess that would need to be a team playing with no cohesion, not looking like scoring ever and a manager who has already lost the dressing room which is what happened at those clubs. In that case I would say the middle of December but the board would need to have 'their man' lined up ahead of that. Fortunately I don't think any of those things are true...

[gumboots]

A completely hypothetical question here, but if we did continue our slide and ended up in the relegation zone, how long would most people be prepared to give Ince before wanting him to leave?

I only ask because I was thinking of Bolton and Wigan last season. Both were heading towards almost guaranteed relegation under Sammy Lee and Hutchings, but both realised their mistakes quite quickly and managed to save themselves thanks to taking swift action.

Personally, if we're there in the middle of December then I'd want him gone and another man to come in ready for the January transfer window. I think we'd be able to attract a good manager if they had a kitty of £10-£20 million to spend, which should be the case.

But we wouldn't have that money because we'd have to pay Ince compensation and compensate any club we took our next manager from unless we employed out of work managers like Allardyce and you all know my thoughts on him so I won't repeat them. So you could easily take 3-5 million out of that transfer budget. If it's top end of your estimate it's not too bad and would still leave us with a reasonable sum. If it's bottom end you could be looking at only 5 million to spend without selling and then all the rebuilding hassle etc. If we're still looking like relegation candidates or worse by Christmas we might hve to look at changing manager but it's by no means as easy as some seem to think.

[AggyBlue]

Personally, if we're there in the middle of December then I'd want him gone and another man to come in ready for the January transfer window.

That would blow the transfer budget, paying compo to Ince and his staff.

You're too quick gumboots.

Or am I too slow?

[LeChuck]

I'll be horrified if we haven't protected ourselves financially in the event that Ince is a bad appointment.

We're happy to give players clauses in the their contracts to get them here, surely we can protect ourselves every so often? Ince should have been begging us for the job, I'm sure we could have worked a clause in there somewhere.

[broadsword]

We went for the cheap option, so I'd hope he was fairly cheap to get shot of as well.

God only knows who we'd get in to replace him though.

Jimmy Saville, perhaps.

[DingleBaiter]

A completely hypothetical question here, but if we did continue our slide and ended up in the relegation zone, how long would most people be prepared to give Ince before wanting him to leave?

I only ask because I was thinking of Bolton and Wigan last season. Both were heading towards almost guaranteed relegation under Sammy Lee and Hutchings, but both realised their mistakes quite quickly and managed to save themselves thanks to taking swift action.

Personally, if we're there in the middle of December then I'd want him gone and another man to come in ready for the January transfer window. I think we'd be able to attract a good manager if they had a kitty of £10-£20 million to spend, which should be the case.

I think the timing question, hypothetical or not, is secondary to what the contingency is (if there is one). There'd also be other criteria - injuries, stats, feeling amongst players etc. The Spurs showed how fickle it all is, get rid of a manager that's finished you in top Five twice to slaver and tap-up Ramos, only for him to chopped once they'd got the nod from Harry he was ready to jump.

People will have you think Allardyce's men have been monitoring the situation since Ince's appointment, ready to step in come January. Down at Brockhall at any opportunity, taking notes, scouting etc. BFS has already had it in the media he's waiting to come back iN January when chairmen get squeaky bums. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibilities to have 3 Welshmen coming back on donkeys from Eastern lands at Xmas.

What worries me about ANY contingency replacement would be NO manager comes in without wanting to spend money; I hope the board don't share the view of some of the pitchforkers to withold Ince's money only to give it to someone else to waste?

My answer would be mid-Dec would be the latest they could possibly wait if they wanted to press the button; unless they had the nod from Mr Mourinho tomorrow.

Don't forget the compo wouldn't be that high as Ince is effectively unemployable elsewhere in the Prem due to the coaching dispensation. I'd safely bet we'd still have some balance from the Hughes compo in, even after the MK compo has been paid and any pay-offs.

PS. To counter the original question, (hypothetically), how long - or what criteria - would it take for the Ince-bashing to desist?

Also - let's put it down as early Xmas wishes - what would people's 'moment of clarity' be, i.e. the one thing that could happen, no matter how unrealistic, that would make them admit they were wrong - or change their opinions?

For instance.....

What would it take for *** to admit he really like the board at Ewood and there is no conspiracy?

For *** to admit he's fully confident in all business affairs at Ewood, despite what his 'sources' tell him?

For *** to admit that Paul Ince, despite their reservations and personal dislike of him, is actually doing a good job and looks like a decent long-term prospect in his own right?

Myself, I'd be happy if we finished top 10 with Ince, although I based that before he came & realise that may be somewhat unlikely, but still totally achievable. I don't think we're going to have an easy season, but I don't think we'll have it as bad as some people seem to think/wish.

[DP]

No probs with hyperthetical questions LeChuck, just the "Ince should be sacked now" kind of mentality that others are showing.

For me we would have to be 4-5 points adrift of safety at the end of the year (Boxing Day say) to consider drastic action. It would be very unfortunate if it was a result of injuries as he wouldn't have been given the chance to spend his money in the transfer window. But the board are the ONLY people (are you hearing this Philipl?) who know whether or not Ince was given substantial funds to spend in the close season and instead chose to buy in Grella and Andrews and rely on Dunny and Santa Cruz staying fit. As these decisions combined with failing to beat the teams we have between now and Christmas would ultimately cost him his job.

But do I think this will happen? No, as I reckon there's enough games coming up for us to pick up points and keep ourselves above the drop zone.

[MCMC1875]

I understand Derek Fazackerley is keen to return to Ewood.

[ABBEY]

dinglebaiter ..please explain your remarks about me cuckoo...cheers master.

[gillibrand]

I think we should go to Big Sams house and beg his forgivness, because I would prefer the long ball game and be in the top half at Christmas than were we are at the moment, but maybe Kidd I mean Ince may take us into Europe!

[DingleBaiter]

dinglebaiter ..please explain your remarks about me cuckoo...cheers master.

The comment you made about Ince sacking the kids coming out with them because they were being blamed for losing just seemed a strange one? I'd think the lass you referred that said it wasn't serious, surely? Then again, freedom of speech and all that, who's the dafter - the one that said it, or the one that repeated it without offering any editorial judgement as to how wacko it sounded? Guess it depends on if you believed it Abbey

[ABBEY]

she sounded quite upset about it hughsey ,i nearly crashed into the roebuck when i heard it.If someone could ask Lee if he's heard anything.I aked if anyone could deny /verify the remarks . It sounded strange but we will know next week against the mackhems.

[Hughesy]

she sounded quite upset about it hughsey

What have I done?

[Billy Castell]

I am getting a bit nervous, but a win or two will see us right. The next few games could shape our season. Hopefully we can get a few good signings in January. Still fairly confident but things are a bit tight and worrying.

[JAL]

Just seen Lancashire Telegraph billboard outside Sommerfields on the service station saying 'Ince hails Andrews' are there other poeple out there conspiring against Ince or is the timing unfortunate.

[LDRover]

Just seen Lancashire Telegraph billboard outside Sommerfields on the service station saying 'Ince hails Andrews' are there other poeple out there conspiring against Ince or is the timing unfortunate.

Must have got over his indigestion.

[AggyBlue]

Must have got over his indigestion.

[JAL]

Must have got over his indigestion.

Good one like it

[tonygreenbank]

I always thought that it was clubs like Newcastle, City and Bolton whose supporters clamour fro the head of the manager. Not Rovers surely after so few games!

This season was always going to be one of transition. A slow evolution of style and personnel. Yesterday there were 7 Ince personnel on view, Warnock was midfield and only Gamst, Roberts and Nelsen played in their pre-Ince positions. I include Zurab as an Ince player.

What I saw did not upset or worry me at all. I expected a defeat but I looked at the players carefully and I didnt see one shirker;saw some good football on a terrible surface and saw room for optimism.

I cannot share in the gloomy predictions of some posters. We are better than three teams I could name so have no concerns about relegation.Someone mentioned "luck" in an earlier post and we have been unlucky in that the playing conditions for the last 3 games have been poor; we have played top opposition at home mostly. Our away form has been good and have dominated games for long spells.

When Ince can get his best team out then we will be fine.

I think we should give our manager a bit of respect when it comes to football knowledge; he has played for top teams and his record in management is not that bad.

[imy9]

I agree with the poster who said that IF we were adrift by say 3 points at christmas then drastic action would need to be taken.

The biggest concern (amongst others) for me is the injuries and lack of goals. When Benni and RSC are fit (which should be shortly) I cannot see there being a problem. Dunny should be back by christmas and that would give us some spark in midfield.

I found it laughable when someone said that Andrews was a player we did not need, looking at the injury situation and the way that he has performed so far, he is potentially a solid premier league player who cost us a pittance- short to middle term nothing wrong with that.

The next 6 games are make or break for our season, if Ince and his team perform well then we should have an exciting January transfer window where I expect at least 2 quick wingers to be purchased, if he doesn't then the reality is that he will be sacked- this is an option that I personally cannot forsee because I have seen enough in this side to suggest that potentially we can be a better side with PI as our manager, but time will ultimately be the judge.

[imy9]

Oops hit it twice!

[brightonrover]

OK, it's not going brilliantly at the moment but the league is so tight that a couple of wins would see us comfortably in the top half.

I refuse to use getting beaten by Chelsea as a benchmark. The two games coming up against Sunderland will give us a reall idea of where we currently are.

[Tris]

It's so repetitive on this board. All the Ince bashers see us as playing terrible and then there's a few other rose tinted supporters who think everything will be OK and Ince can do no wrong.

Jury well and truly still out. I'll be back at Christmas with my verdict.

In the meantime, get behind the team for these crunch games coming up.

I always thought that it was clubs like Newcastle, City and Bolton whose supporters clamour fro the head of the manager. Not Rovers surely after so few games!

This season was always going to be one of transition. A slow evolution of style and personnel. Yesterday there were 7 Ince personnel on view, Warnock was midfield and only Gamst, Roberts and Nelsen played in their pre-Ince positions. I include Zurab as an Ince player.

What I saw did not upset or worry me at all. I expected a defeat but I looked at the players carefully and I didnt see one shirker;saw some good football on a terrible surface and saw room for optimism.

I cannot share in the gloomy predictions of some posters. We are better than three teams I could name so have no concerns about relegation.Someone mentioned "luck" in an earlier post and we have been unlucky in that the playing conditions for the last 3 games have been poor; we have played top opposition at home mostly. Our away form has been good and have dominated games for long spells.

When Ince can get his best team out then we will be fine.

I think we should give our manager a bit of respect when it comes to football knowledge; he has played for top teams and his record in management is not that bad.

Some rare, and much needed balance. The impression this moaningboard gives off is anything but balanced. The same old critics who never wanted Ince in the first place are taking the place over by posting the same stuff over and over again after every single game! Imy / Hughesy / Ivan can be accused of being repetitive, but they are only trying to push a boulder uphill against the tirade of anti-Ince posts. Several posters who used to contribute simply can't be bothered to read or post in these threads anymore.

[den]

Some rare, and much needed balance. The impression this moaningboard gives off is anything but balanced. The same old critics who never wanted Ince in the first place are taking the place over by posting the same stuff over and over again after every single game! Imy / Hughesy / Ivan can be accused of being repetitive, but they are only trying to push a boulder uphill against the tirade of anti-Ince posts. Several posters who used to contribute simply can't be bothered to read or post in these threads anymore.

They're not anti Ince, Tris. They're just people saying how they see things. It would be a waste of time simply reading about how things are going spiffingly well, with no room for alternative opinions.