[Archived] Paul's Progress

[gillibrand]

Who were the people who threatened to boycott the Rovers if Big Sam was appointed manager? Maybe you can explain why, instead of people who are anti Ince having to do all the explaining!

[BuckyRover]

I said I didn't understand why we signed Fowler at the time. (Although I don't know why anybody would be totally against it, he is only a squad player and was free).

I thought it was a gamble signing Andrews (He has done better than I thought).

From what I had heard of Grella, he seemed like he was a similar type of player to Vogel (in hindsight Ince has been proved right, as long as he stops getting injured)

We didn't have much choice. I definitely didn't want Allardyce, Laudrup wanted to leave before he got here. We needed somebody to make us money, Ince seems like he will do that. He is placing a lot of emphasis on the youth team.

I can't grasp why people want to see him fail. It makes me angry, so sometimes I may appear to worship him, I do not. I did not like him as an opposing player but his record speaks for itself. He has won competitions he has entered and has built a good team at MK Dons (look where they are now).

[BuckyRover]

Why would anybody want a bolton legend as our manager? Is that not embarrassing?

He plays typically old-school, thuggish, boring football, and fails when Phil Brown is not around.

He wasn't given much time at Newcastle but they weren't getting results but they also weren't playing well. Apparently his gameplan was a Geremi long throw, that was it. Martins couldn't even win the headers but Geremi was just launching them in. His transfers were also appalling (allegedly).

I saw it as a backward step, rather like McCain/Obama (not white/black issue). By rejecting Allardyce we were saying we want to move forward, want to take a chance on an up and coming manager who could take us places. Not takign the safe option, somebody who picks up old players on the cheap (Don't mention Fowler ), but somebody who could build for the future (I think this is obviously why we chose Ince over Laudrup. Would you give somebody a job who at interview was already talking about leaving?)

[gumboots]

Who were the people who threatened to boycott the Rovers if Big Sam was appointed manager? Maybe you can explain why, instead of people who are anti Ince having to do all the explaining!

I had already bought my season ticket and would not have wanted, even if it wer possible to withdraw my financial support. However, I would not have gone to matches if that man had been manager. Nor would I have been giving him stick all the time on here. I would have gone about my other business and waited until such time as he was no longer manager to return to watching games. It is the very persistent negativity about Ince that annoys me. I can understand if you don't like him. He may make your flesh creep as allardyce makes mine, but you don't have to keep telling us all the time what he is doing wrong. we've got the message that there are some people on here who think he is useless and taking us towards relegation. Others disagree and think he will still sort out the problems that we appear to have. Time will prove one group or the other right. I'm not against discussion and attempting to understand one another's viewpoints. I can even see why some are very anxious about our future, but if you've nothing new to say then perhaps some of the most negative posters could give us a day or two's break and post in one of the other threads?

[gillibrand]

I thought the thread title was Paul's progress not Paul's supporters only? And should be allowed to express opinions accordingly.

[LeChuck]

Le Chuck have all been vehemently anti-Ince

I'm not 'anti-Ince', I haven't said I want him out and I'll be delighted if he proves himself, I just have misgivings about the way he's managing at the moment (namely the defence and transfer policy).

I am not vociferously pro-Ince

Balls. You posted the other day that, if he does get us relegated, he'll be the perfect man to take us straight back up, seemingly entirely based on the fact that he got a team out of League Two. It was a far more ludicrous post than anything people in your 'anti-Ince' group has posted.

[BuckyRover]

What like insinuating that we shouldn't apoint him because he cannot read?

Steve Coppell got Reading relegated after finishing 8th in 2007. Admittedly he got them promoted in the first place but there is a lot to be said for maintaining a management team OVER TIME. Not chopping and changing. Steve Bruce also managed to get Birmingham promoted again after relegation.

It is not black and white, it is all about circumstances. If we continue to get lots of injuries and we improve our defence but get relegated on say 48pts, then I would not consider that an instant dismissal. If we start getting spanked 4/5 nil against teams like Wigan and Middlesbrough then that would be time to call it a day.

What I also said which rendered my post irrelevant is that I don't believe for a second we will get relegated.

[ABBEY]

I If we start getting spanked 4/5 nil against teams like Wigan and Middlesbrough then that would be time to call it a day.

quote]

whats wrong with spanking?? losing 4/5 nil is bad ,some people like spanking.

[gumboots]

I thought the thread title was Paul's progress not Paul's supporters only? And should be allowed to express opinions accordingly.

didn't say Paul's supporters only. Just that when you've said what you have to say there's no need to keep repeating it because we've heard you, and if there's nothing new to say then a little break would be nice. I'm not desperately enamoured of the position we find ourselves in at the moment and I'm not 100% convinced by Ince but I do try to find the positives that there are, whilst agreeing that it's not great. It just gets tedious reading Ince is not up to it or whatever for the 100th time and since some don't feel there's been any progress then perhaps we should have a Paul's lack of progress thread and then all those who want to moan could post on there and all of us could choose whether we want to read the more positive or the more negative posts.

[Mr Creosote]

Who were the people who threatened to boycott the Rovers if Big Sam was appointed manager? Maybe you can explain why, instead of people who are anti Ince having to do all the explaining!

You need an explanation for that?

Seriously?

[gillibrand]

You need an explanation for that?

Seriously?

Yes it would be interesting to know who is for Ince and if the anti Sam's are one and the same, I think the continental managers would not last long "Up North" and I don't think Sam dissed Rovers like Ince did. But I don't see Sam as ex BWFC but as a English northern manager who always impressed me by what he achieved over several seasons in the Premiership with very little to spend. Exactly what Rovers need.

[gumboots]

Yes it would be interesting to know who is for Ince and if the anti Sam's are one and the same, I think the continental managers would not last long "Up North" and I don't think Sam dissed Rovers like Ince did. But I don't see Sam as ex BWFC but as a English northern manager who always impressed me by what he achieved over several seasons in the Premiership with very little to spend. Exactly what Rovers need.

With a hugely experienced and expensive backroom staff and an assistant who is now showing what he could do on his own. I'm very definitely anti-allardyce whilst not falling into the pro-Ince camp. I don't want to see our young players finding no way into our first team because the places are taken by older players on huge wages. Allardyce may have paid very little on transfers but the players were on very good wages. I want to see our youngsters coming through if they are good enough. I want to see us building our club and our team. I don't think allardyce is all about long ball tactics although I do think he became increasingly reliant on them when the supply of players like Okocha dried up. I just can't stand him, his voice, his looks, his attitude or anything about him. I know there are minus points to Paul Ince but I want to see him succeed if that's possible.

[gillibrand]

I would like Rovers to succeed, but in the Premiership.

[BuckyRover]

You have to speculate to accumulate. It is called taking a chance. What sport is all about. No guts no glory.

I thought it was a myth that Allardyce was all long ball tactics, but not according to a lot of articles I read when he left Newcastle. Apparently he could not get them to play any other way, and could not change it when it was not working (the players were not suited to playing long ball / long throw / up and at them tactics, just like we aren't).

[gumboots]

I would like Rovers to succeed, but in the Premiership.

And i wouldn't???????

Of course I want us to stay in the premiership. But I don't see the odds as being much greater on our survival with allardyce than with Ince and on the whole i prefer the latter.

[gillibrand]

And i wouldn't???????

Of course I want us to stay in the premiership. But I don't see the odds as being much greater on our survival with allardyce than with Ince and on the whole i prefer the latter.

Of course you do, but I don't understand why Newcastle keep being used as an example when they have got shut of several top managers including the great Kenny!

[BuckyRover]

We will see which club picks him up next. Then we can compare ourselves to them. See whether we are "on a level"

[Mr Creosote]

Yes it would be interesting to know who is for Ince and if the anti Sam's are one and the same, I think the continental managers would not last long "Up North" and I don't think Sam dissed Rovers like Ince did. But I don't see Sam as ex BWFC but as a English northern manager who always impressed me by what he achieved over several seasons in the Premiership with very little to spend. Exactly what Rovers need.

I would always back Rovers no matter who the manager was but it would be gut wrenching for me to go down to Ewood and see us play the way notlob did under Alardyce.

[philipl]

I am not vociferously pro-Ince. It just annoyed me that a lot of people were giving him a hard time for no reason. I knew it would affect things in the long run. thenodrog, Den, T4E, jimmk2, Le Chuck have all been vehemently anti-Ince, I was just trying to counter it.

If I said there are a few things that have concerned me (which they have) we would be left with two camps. A very vocal anti-Ince group and a wait and see group. The only one that would be heard would be anti-Ince and eventually that side would prosper (I do actually believe this group would take great delight in seeing him fail).

My only crime, actively seeing the positive side, trying my best to put a positive spin on things, giving an opposing view.

I am very shocked that people think philipl is giving a balanced assessment. He has been against Ince from the very start, his saving grace is he dresses it up very well. Saying we aren't as good as Lecce?

Were Lecce playing in a downpour?

Are AC Milan as good as Chelsea (Look at the facts & figures and decide yourself)

Did Lecce replace their entire backroom staff and management team a couple of months ago?

Are many of their players out injured?

The two are not comparable, yet he tried to make it seem that way.That is not constructive criticism, it is reminiscent of the way the Daily Mail constructs it's arguments.

This is wet if you excuse a pun.

You are doubly misguided:

1) I was and am willing to give Ince a chance- he was far from my first choice but I did and still do want him to succeed.

2) I think the repeated mediocrity of Rovers performances with their huge failings in terms of what is really needed for top flight football are blinding you to what a good Rovers performance should be like.

But you are completely honest when you say you are "actively seeing the positive side, trying my best to put a positive spin on things, giving an opposing view."

The game I saw at the stadium (Bologna-Roma) was between two teams just above the Serie A relegation slots involved the same Roma side that beat Chelsea 3-1 only three days previously.

AC have a more than useful squad- and the ref showed an awful lot of bias in their favour just like our refs favour our big 4. On paper it would give Chelsea a much tougher match than Roma would.

Seeing the three games within 24 hours with Rovers sandwiched in the middle, I can tell you that Rovers were the worst team by a country mile of the six teams on display. Rovers' saving grace was that Robinson was by some distance the best keeper of the six playing.

Lecce played like Rovers used to play against Big 4 teams and it was really good stuff which had me out of my seat cheering for them. AC were clearly technically and physically the better XI but Lecce were set-up to give them one heck of a match and had the ability and organisation to really hurt AC when they countered. They managed to neutralise recent World Payer of the Year Kaka so well that he was withdrawn after 65 minutes but suffered as sub Pato got a lucky deflection to set-up Rolandinho's goal. Moreover Lecce didn't play with such a rigid 4-4-2 with the space between the two lines of 4 completely constricted in the way Roma and Bologna did which made for my turn, your turn type of football in that game. I'd never given Lecce a second thought before so I was far from biased in my assessment.

[imy9]

3. Those who appear to see the appearance of Ince as akin to the arrival of the Hidden Imam heralding the dawn if an intolerant new world order (buckyrover & Imy please take a bow) - where even relegation is a virtue, as this would presage the Chosen One’s return at the head of the forces of righteousness and do battle with the forces of evil in one, final, apocalyptic battle.

I would be interested to see if you could actually find ONE post which would support the above.

IF:

1. Backing PI to succeed.

2. Not believing the stories from The Daily Mail (which have been proved incorrect)

3. Giving the new signings a chance (Andrews and Fowler havent had a chance with some "supporters" BEFORE they arrived)

4. Asking people to support some of their comments about PI (Phillip being one) and getting no reply because their points against PI are baseless.

is likened to me thinking that Ince heralds the arrival of a new dawn then fair enough but I would suggest you actually read what I have said, does help

[den]

I knew it would affect things in the long run. thenodrog, Den, T4E, jimmk2, Le Chuck have all been vehemently anti-Ince, I was just trying to counter it.

Absolute rollocks Bucky. That's just a means of turning people against each other, rather than enter a reasonable debate.

As for me, I'm not anti Ince, or pro Ince. I'm pro Rovers and if that means saying things others can't deal with, then they have a problem methinks.

[philipl]

imy9, there is a difference between baseless comments and not repeating things which would enormously damage the club that I have felt passionately about for over 45 years.

The fact I am not willing to put stuff on a message board where journalists lurk doesn't wish things away for either you or me.

[1864roverite]

imy

Regarding your last post.

Fans who follow football will know that Fowler couldnt hack it at Cardiff and didnt score goals for them so just how are they supposed to react to him coming to Ewood ? What did he offer Rovers if he could hack it at Cardiff cloggers ?

In respect of Andrews you can very much say the same. he had failed at Wolves and Hull so just how were fans supposed to react when they find the midfield being supplemented by a relatively unknown failure ?

Neither set the pulses racing and only flamed the underlying discontent with all things Rovers, and by that I mean the sales of Bentley and Brad, the loss of Hughes, the inputting of an "aged" and "inexperienced" back room team as well as a manager who had previously slated Rovers who had come from the lower echelons of the league.

The lack of a big money or decent replacement did not do any favours for Ince.

I may sound like I am anti Ince, the reality is is that I am unsure as to whether or not he is the man to lead Rovers. I hope he does well, really and sincerely.

However, I find some of the decision making absolutley shocking. I dont agree with the tactics and formations employed in some games. I dont agree with the leaving out of a quality experienced midfielde in Vogel when we are so short of midfield class, I despise the fact that a gem in Sir Matt is used in positions where he is simply ineffective, I hate the fact that it seems each and every game is built up praising the opposition and manager. The poor results seem to be shrugged off with simple anecdotes in the media the reality of our position in the league seems to be beyond interest. constantly playing 4-5-1 bores the crap out of supporters and with the players that he has employed its the plain and simple reason why we dont score goals.

Its that type of mannerisms that have brought the negative comments. If the common supporter can notice such things then why are we asking WHY CANT THEY ?

I would love to see Ince take Rovers forward, the plain truth of the matter is that at this very moment we have gone backwards and continue to do so. We are not standing still like with Harford and Kidd and we all know the end result of that - we got relegated.

We have coming up a series of games that last year, even with Hughes at the helm, we would thrive upon and take points, now we see that hope is all forlorn and we will be lucky to take any points whatsoever out of the next 5 games such is the poor quality of our end product. We may play pretty football through the middle, we may bring the odd save out of a keeper BUT at the end of the day WE HAVE TO SCORE GOALS and as we can all see WE ARE NOT !

So, for me, the way for Ince to shut all doubters up is to take stock and realise where the real issues and problems are.

Only when they are addressed will the doubters get fully 100% behind our club.

It is gutting to lose, it is gutting to see our position right now as there appears to be no way out. what is even worse is that after a decent start we find ourselves looking up at clubs like Bolton and find ourselves looking down at clubs like Burnley and Wolves in waiting to take our place. Now that really wrenches

[imy9]

imy

Regarding your last post.

Fans who follow football will know that Fowler couldnt hack it at Cardiff and didnt score goals for them so just how are they supposed to react to him coming to Ewood ? What did he offer Rovers if he could hack it at Cardiff cloggers ?

6 GOALS IN 16 AND HIS GOAL TALLY FOR MAN CITY AND LIVERPOOL BEFORE THAT SUGGESTS THAT FITNESS IS AN ISSUE NOT ABILITY- FANS WHO FOLLOW FOOTBALL WOULD KNOW THIS I PRESUME.

In respect of Andrews you can very much say the same. he had failed at Wolves and Hull so just how were fans supposed to react when they find the midfield being supplemented by a relatively unknown failure ?

UMM LET ME THINK GIVE HIM A CHANCE- BELLAMY WAS A MASSIVE LET DOWN WITH EVERY CLUB HE HAD BEEN WITH BEFORE ROVERS, BRAD FRIEDEL WITH LIVERPOOL, TUGAY WITH RANGERS, BENTLEY WITH NORWICH AND ARSENAL SO WHY WERE THEY GIVEN A CHANCE??

Neither set the pulses racing and only flamed the underlying discontent with all things Rovers, and by that I mean the sales of Bentley and Brad, the loss of Hughes, the inputting of an "aged" and "inexperienced" back room team as well as a manager who had previously slated Rovers who had come from the lower echelons of the league.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE BACKROOM STAFF THEY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE THAN HUGHES AND HIS ENTIRE TEAM, ALSO THEY HAVE ACTUALLY WON TROPHIES.

The lack of a big money or decent replacement did not do any favours for Ince.

AGREED.

I despise the fact that a gem in Sir Matt is used in positions where he is simply ineffective,

HUGHES DID THE SAME.

I hate the fact that it seems each and every game is built up praising the opposition and manager. The poor results seem to be shrugged off with simple anecdotes in the media the reality of our position in the league seems to be beyond interest. constantly playing 4-5-1 bores the crap out of supporters and with the players that he has employed its the plain and simple reason why we dont score goals.

WHEN WE ARE MISSING OUR TWO BIGGEST GOAL SCORERS AND MOST OF OUR MIDFIELD I THINK IT IS NECESSITY RATHER THAN PI WANTING TO PLAY THAT WAY- PI LIKES PLAYING WITH TWO FAST WINGERS AND PLAYING TWO UP FRONT- WORDS OF MATHIAS.

I would love to see Ince take Rovers forward, the plain truth of the matter is that at this very moment we have gone backwards and continue to do so. We are not standing still like with Harford and Kidd and we all know the end result of that - we got relegated.

INJURIES, ENTIRELY NEW BACKROOM TEAM, DIFFERENT STYLE OF PLAY- IT WILL TAKE TIME, TWO STEPS BACKWARDS TO GO FORWARDS, ANY MANAGER WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS REALITY (IF PI IS SACKED)

We have coming up a series of games that last year, even with Hughes at the helm, we would thrive upon and take points, now we see that hope is all forlorn and we will be lucky to take any points whatsoever out of the next 5 games such is the poor quality of our end product. We may play pretty football through the middle, we may bring the odd save out of a keeper BUT at the end of the day WE HAVE TO SCORE GOALS and as we can all see WE ARE NOT !

RSC AND BENNI HAVE SCORED MOST OF OUR GOALS AND WITH THEM MISSING WE WILL STRUGGLE BUT TOUCH WOOD THEY SHOULD BE BACK!

So, for me, the way for Ince to shut all doubters up is to take stock and realise where the real issues and problems are.

AGREED.

Only when they are addressed will the doubters get fully 100% behind our club.

AGREED.

It is gutting to lose, it is gutting to see our position right now as there appears to be no way out. what is even worse is that after a decent start we find ourselves looking up at clubs like Bolton and find ourselves looking down at clubs like Burnley and Wolves in waiting to take our place. Now that really wrenches

AGREED AGAIN.

imy9, there is a difference between baseless comments and not repeating things which would enormously damage the club that I have felt passionately about for over 45 years.

The fact I am not willing to put stuff on a message board where journalists lurk doesn't wish things away for either you or me.

I am sorry but what a load of tosh. Either come out with some evidence or dont insinuate.

The players have come out and supported PI, they play for him and this has been shown on the pitch on numerous ocassions this year. You say PI has shown disrespect to the club, how?

I quote PI in todays LET:

"Yet at Blackburn, I don’t want to cry because I am a lucky man in a great job"

Yes he continues to disrespect us.

imy9, there is a difference between baseless comments and not repe

[92er]

I am sorry but what a load of tosh. Either come out with some evidence or dont insinuate.

I quote PI in todays LET:

"Yet at Blackburn, I don’t want to cry because I am a lucky man in a great job"

Yes he continues to disrespect us.

I noticed the compliment in the LT-it's the first time he has come out with that I think.