[Archived] Paul's Progress

[DingleBaiter]

Well.

It's not a case of 'we told you so' (no matter how much wishful thinking there is in some quarters to justify objections to Ince's appointment).

It's not a case of jumping to conclusions, being proved right or wrong, or it only being a 'bad result'.

It's exactly the case though from what I saw today, I wonder how bad we must be to think bringing in the Bolton Butcher would be an improvement.

I can't think of one positive, no matter how infinitesimal, from today's 'performance'.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was vehemently opposed to Allardyce on every single level (possibly to a similar degree to some people are/were to Ince). However, if he'd have got the job, I'd have grudgingly put my club foremost than my personal feelings - and give him every opportunity to deliver.

I don't know what worries me most just now - to think we may get more of the same (or worse), or that there isn't a solution even if we parted ways with Ince. For all the anti-Ince feeling that's built up, people have been somewhat less vociferous in proposing positive solutions, much less anything like a guarantee.

However, no matter which 'candidate' people may propose - and they all have a downside - it wouldn't have to be a 'worldie' to do a better job than today's debacle.

Of course, it's just one game - but believe me, it really was that worrying, and it's not hyperbole to say I've been hit with the cold, chilling prospect of deja vu of a night in Huddersfield under Brian Kidd when the distinct prospect of relegation raised it's spectral head.

It's not just the football, the players, the 'tactics' (if any), more of a general malaise. The natives are restless - possibly already split in their support from the start - but if someone as patient & long-sighted as myself is desperately worried for the future of my football club based on ONE performance, God help the naysayers.

So, what to do? Well, there is no 'silver bullet' sadly. Even if we chopped Ince, who's to say we'd get a manager in that can do better? Don't forget, the same criteria that picked Hughes also selected Ince.

I DO think today though will bring Mr Williams down to Earth with a nasty bump; we're facing relegation as a clear and present danger. We go down, we're never, ever going to come back up (bar a miracle akin to Jack). That simply CANNOT be allowed to happen. We MAY think we are a stable club - and I'd hate us to end up like Newcastle and other flippant, fickle, unrealistic fans - but the 'tipping point' will be upon us soon. We're in the bottom 3, and if we start drifting there will be no turning back.

Any new manager will want money in January, so December is the 'cut off' point for any meaningful change to be done, if not earlier.

I'm deeply worried; we're not up the creek without a paddle, we're in a fetid, turgid canal of despondency & mediocrity on a barnacled tug 'driven' by a demented, imbalanced chump.

[roverfanuk]

Agree with the original poster, although not quite sure why it needed a 2nd topic!

If Williams has any sense, he will sack Ince and sign Alan Curbishley...

[Tom]

I still think given time Ince could do a job here

BUT

we don't have time to wait it out.

In private the board need to set a date and if things are no better then maybe the axe should fall.

I think if BFS comes in he will do a job and I personally would trust him with any cash we may have, I'm sure he'd address some key postions that need looking at.

[Mr. E]

.....................because I know you read this messageboard.

Today I witnessed a debacle that if allowed to continue will almost certainly lead to Rovers being relegated.

Phil Gartside acted quickly when he realised he had made a mistake last season so please, please accept your were wrong, swallow your pride and do what you must do to save our club.

There is manager named Sam Allardyce who can sort this mess out, and he is available now.

Leave it to January and it will be too late.

John Williams should be concerned with finding an investor who can allow us to compete in this league, because currently we are unable to do that. Allardyce might actually save us, but unless we get some money there is no manager that can take us off the bottom half of the table.

[Tom]

My plea would be whoever the boss come jan make ALL of the Bentley cash available to address some gaping holes in the team.

[Dunnfc]

The title says "Pauls Progress" Its simple the is none!!!

[Amo]

I wouldn't blame Sam if he stuck two fingers up at us. We should be embarrassed for calling his name after what happened pre-season.

[tony gale's mic]

John Williams should be concerned with finding an investor who can allow us to compete in this league, because currently we are unable to do that. Allardyce might actually save us, but unless we get some money there is no manager that can take us off the bottom half of the table.

They wouldn't be an investor, they'd have to be a benefactor.

[Tom]

I wouldn't blame Sam if he stuck two fingers up at us. We should be embarrassed for calling his name after what happened pre-season.

Thats a fair point you know, however he has mentioned getting back into football in january.

[roverfanuk]

I wouldn't blame Sam if he stuck two fingers up at us. We should be embarrassed for calling his name after what happened pre-season.

To be fair, i still don't want him now.

Granted i wasnt one of the ones doing the facebook campaign, i wouldnt want him as manager of Rovers...

[Exiled in Toronto]

I totally agree and add my own mea culpa in terms of having strongly opposed BFS. The only mitigation I can plea is that had I known the alternative was going to be PI, I wouldn't have been anti-BFS.

In the summer, we had just missed out on European qualification by a fluke and had every reason to be looking upwards so should have been appointing a Manager of European pedigree to match our European ambitions.

Now we are looking for someone who knows the market place, who is available and can keep us in the Premier League in the face of the expected loss of RSC and perhaps Warnock as well in January.

There is only BFS currently available who looks like a secure insurance bet to keep us in the Prem this season and in the future. Other than Mark Hughes, I cannot think of anyone else who would know as well as BFS where the players might be who could come to Ewood and do the job for us in the second half of this season.

First sensible thing you've posted in 3 months.

I would add to the criteria the need for the new man to bring in his own proven team. The big problem with the Ince appointment following the exodus of the Taffia was that he had not had the time or the right level in management to assemble a credible, united, competent backroom team. Williams is totally at fault for not seeing the importance of this.

BFS is the only candidate who could hit the ground running and get things back on track. We experimented with Ince and cannot possibly afford to do so while poised over the trapdoor.

Whether Williams has the humility to admit a mistake, balls to sack Ince et al and further humility to grovel to BFS is a different question.

[DingleBaiter]

I wouldn't blame Sam if he stuck two fingers up at us. We should be embarrassed for calling his name after what happened pre-season.

Fair point I guess. Then again, football's full of hypocrisy, twists & turns, and lack of principles. Few quid I'm sure he'll forget the whole thing, and come back grinning.

I'm still not convinced he's the solution; however, on today's shambles, I'm certainly convinced we've massive problems.

Right now, we're in a far worse situation than when we had a shortlist. We're desperate, there's less options around of any quality/consistency, we've lost a few players (and probably likely to lose at least three more - more by them wanting to go than being approached), and I'm deeply worried Ince is going to prove a more destructive force than Typhoon Kidd.

It's the lesser of several evils, but a repetition of anything like today cannot happen again for the good of our club.

[nicko]

If nicko is to be believed, and I'd say he is, this very website played a rather large role in that decision. I'll happily admit that I was one of those dead against his appointment at the time, but right now he is the only place we should be looking.

Apologies for butting in...it is a time of private grief and reflection.

I know that the anti-Sam reaction did his chances harm, but I think Paul Ince was probably ahead in the race despite that factor.

If your board thought Sam was second choice then - at best - why has it changed now? The board spoke to most of the candidates and made their decision. They should stand by that a little longer surely.

Ince deserves a bit more time but needs to turn it round fast, starting with picking a settled and regular side.

Unfortunately for you the best young manager in Britain is at a club where he is probably untouchable...

I think you know the chap I mean.

[Dunnfc]

Darren Ferguson would be another Ince right? And so would Martinez?

Good to have your input back Nicko, boy could we do with some calm words from you now.

[Wild Irish Rover]

Apologies for butting in...it is a time of private grief and reflection.

I know that the anti-Sam reaction did his chances harm, but I think Paul Ince was probably ahead in the race despite that factor.

If your board thought Sam was second choice then - at best - why has it changed now? The board spoke to most of the candidates and made their decision. They should stand by that a little longer surely.

Ince deserves a bit more time but needs to turn it round fast, starting with picking a settled and regular side.

Unfortunately for you the best young manager in Britain is at a club where he is probably untouchable...

I think you know the chap I mean.

Oh go on then, lets bring back Sparky.....

Doh!

Get a grip you bunch of short termist monkeys..(not you Nicko - the bozos who are calling for Paul Ince's head on a platter)

Those who think like that, let me say that I believe your thinking is PRECISELY the reason why football is such a pathetic sport at the present time. You think that just because we exist in the Premiership that we deserve success (at any cost) right away, without having to earn it. Well, sorry to rain on yer parade, but that strikes me as being a teensy bit naive and bordering on the delusional expectations of clubs with far bigger potential.

There should be no talk of sackings, replacements or any other kind of short termist change for change sake for at least 12 months after an appointment. I mean, just look at the shambles at St James Park - it will take YEARS for that mess to be sorted out, and all because people expect / demand instant gratification and success in football, when in reality it takes YEARS to develop a strategy and to execute it.

If you aren't prepared to stick by the club through thick and thin then I suggest you go and support a club with a revolving door policy, like the barcodes or tottingham ffs.

[jim mk2]

If you aren't prepared to stick by the club through thick and thin then I suggest you go and support a club with a revolving door policy, like the barcodes or tottingham ffs.

Pardon me matey but some on here have stuck with the club through thick and alot of thin for more than 60 years.

Which is just the point .......we support the club not the latest here today/gone tomorrow manager.

[mjs]

There should be no talk of sackings, replacements or any other kind of short termist change for change sake for at least 12 months after an appointment.

Then in that case we are in deep mire, because today was clear evidence to me that Ince is out of his depth. Up to now I have backed him and given him the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes you have to recoginse quickly that something is very wrong and cut your losses early.

It isn't knee-jerk, it is just glaringly obvious.

[DingleBaiter]

Apologies for butting in...it is a time of private grief and reflection.

......

Unfortunately for you the best young manager in Britain is at a club where he is probably untouchable...

I think you know the chap I mean.

That wouldn't be the fella you wrote up a page article on in your paper last Saturday, c/w with a lil piccy of yourself would it?

Keep up the positive posts, Nicko, and tell us that 200m story today was just a PR plug from ADIG to make up for Hughes looking so glum in his conference yesterday?

[Frisky Jim]

Well.

It's not a case of 'we told you so' (no matter how much wishful thinking there is in some quarters to justify objections to Ince's appointment).

It's not a case of jumping to conclusions, being proved right or wrong, or it only being a 'bad result'.

It's exactly the case though from what I saw today, I wonder how bad we must be to think bringing in the Bolton Butcher would be an improvement.

I can't think of one positive, no matter how infinitesimal, from today's 'performance'.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was vehemently opposed to Allardyce on every single level (possibly to a similar degree to some people are/were to Ince). However, if he'd have got the job, I'd have grudgingly put my club foremost than my personal feelings - and give him every opportunity to deliver.

I don't know what worries me most just now - to think we may get more of the same (or worse), or that there isn't a solution even if we parted ways with Ince. For all the anti-Ince feeling that's built up, people have been somewhat less vociferous in proposing positive solutions, much less anything like a guarantee.

However, no matter which 'candidate' people may propose - and they all have a downside - it wouldn't have to be a 'worldie' to do a better job than today's debacle.

Of course, it's just one game - but believe me, it really was that worrying, and it's not hyperbole to say I've been hit with the cold, chilling prospect of deja vu of a night in Huddersfield under Brian Kidd when the distinct prospect of relegation raised it's spectral head.

It's not just the football, the players, the 'tactics' (if any), more of a general malaise. The natives are restless - possibly already split in their support from the start - but if someone as patient & long-sighted as myself is desperately worried for the future of my football club based on ONE performance, God help the naysayers.

So, what to do? Well, there is no 'silver bullet' sadly. Even if we chopped Ince, who's to say we'd get a manager in that can do better? Don't forget, the same criteria that picked Hughes also selected Ince.

I DO think today though will bring Mr Williams down to Earth with a nasty bump; we're facing relegation as a clear and present danger. We go down, we're never, ever going to come back up (bar a miracle akin to Jack). That simply CANNOT be allowed to happen. We MAY think we are a stable club - and I'd hate us to end up like Newcastle and other flippant, fickle, unrealistic fans - but the 'tipping point' will be upon us soon. We're in the bottom 3, and if we start drifting there will be no turning back.

Any new manager will want money in January, so December is the 'cut off' point for any meaningful change to be done, if not earlier.

I'm deeply worried; we're not up the creek without a paddle, we're in a fetid, turgid canal of despondency & mediocrity on a barnacled tug 'driven' by a demented, imbalanced chump.

I hope you're enjoying your humble pie.

[philipl]

Sky have West Ham, West Brom and Stoke to go down but Rovers in a category of their own- Staying up but it could be close. (ie 17th)

Here are their comments:

Blackburn Rovers

Current Position: 15th, with 13 points

Why They Will Go Down

For all his bluster and confidence, Paul Ince has yet to convince as a top-class manager. The curious decision to sign Robbie Fowler, an injury-prone 33-year-old whose best days were about ten years ago and had no guarantee of a game at Cardiff, set alarm bells ringing, and a record of three wins so far, coupled with the magical transformation of a solid defence into the worst in the division has done little to allay those fears. While they lost key men in the summer, a side that finished seventh last season should not be in this position.

Why They Won't Go Down

Blackburn have had a tricky start to the season. They have played all of the top six bar Liverpool, and the only one of their defeats that you might realistically have expected more from was the 4-1 loss to West Ham early on, a scoreline that flattered the Hammers greatly. Also, if their attacking talent can stay fit, the likes of Roque Santa Cruz and Benni McCarthy will get them out of trouble. And if that doesn't work, they still have the £15million from David Bentley's sale burning a hole in their pockets.

Sky Bet odds: 6/1

Verdict: Staying up, but it could be close

[Frisky Jim]

I might put some dosh on Rovers going down.

[Wiggy]

Apologies for butting in...it is a time of private grief and reflection.

I know that the anti-Sam reaction did his chances harm, but I think Paul Ince was probably ahead in the race despite that factor.

If your board thought Sam was second choice then - at best - why has it changed now? The board spoke to most of the candidates and made their decision. They should stand by that a little longer surely.

Ince deserves a bit more time but needs to turn it round fast, starting with picking a settled and regular side.

Unfortunately for you the best young manager in Britain is at a club where he is probably untouchable...

I think you know the chap I mean.

Well Owen Coyle might not be a bad shout. At least he had a go at Chelsea!

[Frisky Jim]

Well Owen Coyle might not be a bad shout. At least he had a go at Chelsea!

He will be the Celtic manager one day.

[Zulu]

I've read many a trotter would have him back today,better not to take the p1ss when the locals are restless Mr Zulu!

JOG ON.......

Well, here's one Trotter who would have him back in a flash. Our very own Ginger Mourinho is no great shakes (a bit sharper than the Governor though.) I posted my views on here when you all discounted Allardyce prior to appointing Incey.

I do find it somewhat whimsical however how most Rovers fans now appear to have decided that Allardyce is the jewel in their midst. And as for taking the p1ss? Well I'm sure that you would have no qualms in doing that when our locals are restless SG.

So jog on yourself - and don't let me detain you.

[roverfanuk]

I think you know the chap I mean.

Mark Hughes or David Moyes?