[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Amo]

It's about being realistic.

I bet Williams was thinking the same when he hired Ince.

[gillibrand]

I bet Williams was thinking the same when he hired Ince.

No JW was thinkining how to appease the oinks on facebook.

[tony gale's mic]

I still can't believe that people on here think that a continental manager would be good for this northern unfashionable club with limited spending power, West Ham are not doing very well with their cash flow limited, and they reside in the capital, WOW!

Rubbish. A good manager who is good at tactics, motivation, transfers etc is a good manager wherever they come from. You're telling me that if we hypothetically got Fabio Capello in that he'd be bad for the club?! Michael Laudrup wanted to come, I still look back in disbelief we didn't get him. If he wanted to move onto pastures new after a season then so what? If he was in demand then it wouldve shown what a good job he'd done.

No JW was thinkining how to appease the oinks on facebook.

There was a much bigger facebook following for ten Cate I think you'll find.

[tony gale's mic]

Whilst Paul Ince hasn't helped the situation, the position that Rovers are currently in, should not be as a surprise to anyone. If more had taken off their blue tinted glasses, they would have seen that the club have been in decline for some time.

There has been a sickness within the club for more that 12 months and in my opinion relegation was only avoided last season due to points picked up prior to the free fall in October and the ability of the manager and coaches to make tactical changes, which whilst not pretty were effective.

No one could actually honestly say we have been a joy to watch in recent years and we have survived more on "bully boy" negative play, through necessity and guile than actual entertainment.

Unfortunately these players have no affinity to the club or to the supporters and were simply mercenaries plying their trade to the highest bidder, using the club as a stepping stone or sitting back in full knowledge that they had inflated contracts for the foreseeable future.

This is what Ince has inherited, an ageing team, who apart from the isolated case have no sell on value yet he or any other incoming manager had to rebuild if the club was to become a force in the premiership.

Disagree completely with all of this. Relegation was avoided last season for the simple reason that we were nowhere near the bottom three sides in the league. I don't have the exact statistics for a post-October league table but I'm almost certain we'd be at least 10th or 11th.

Sure we haven't been a joy to wach in recent years but the accusations you level at Rovers could be used against most Premier League teams, with the exception of the big four, Villa and Everton. Other teams like Spurs have played some attractive football in recent years but with much less success than ours. The mercernaries thing you speak of - that's symptomatic of the modern game and is something you'll find at most clubs bar the obvious exceptions. How many clubs in our league are packed with stars with big sell on values? Last season we had Roque, Bentley, Warnock and Samba who could all have gone for big values, and Benni who could have left for big money the previous summer. Bentley went in the summer giving Ince a bigger transfer kitty than Hughes ever had. I'd say that's comparable to a lot of teams in our league and certainly not relegation standard.

The league table at the end of the season does not lie, and we have been top 10 for the last three years comfortably, we improved on our points tally and our league position from last season and with several clubs bar Villa in decline this season, had Hughes stayed or we got a good appointment in we would have been in a prime position to kick on.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I wonder how many we'd see on Ewood for a midweek game in November against Doncaster?

[1864roverite]

I will help you SG

12000 at best

Rovers relegation will see St sales drop by at least %50

average gates will drop to 12000 circa

parachute payments will see Rovers have to sell every asset just to break even

The club will find itself in administration and dropping further down the league just like Leeds and Sheff Wed

[gillibrand]

I will help you SG

12000 at best

Rovers relegation will see St sales drop by at least %50

average gates will drop to 12000 circa

parachute payments will see Rovers have to sell every asset just to break even

The club will find itself in administration and dropping further down the league just like Leeds and Sheff Wed

Frightening, give me long boring football in the top half of the premiership any day.

Rubbish. A good manager who is good at tactics, motivation, transfers etc is a good manager wherever they come from. You're telling me that if we hypothetically got Fabio Capello in that he'd be bad for the club?! Michael Laudrup wanted to come, I still look back in disbelief we didn't get him. If he wanted to move onto pastures new after a season then so what? If he was in demand then it wouldve shown what a good job he'd done.

There was a much bigger facebook following for ten Cate I think you'll find.

The managers you quote may do well if they had Man Citys check book to play with!

[RevidgeBlue]

Disagree completely with all of this. Relegation was avoided last season for the simple reason that we were nowhere near the bottom three sides in the league. I don't have the exact statistics for a post-October league table but I'm almost certain we'd be at least 10th or 11th.

Sure we haven't been a joy to wach in recent years but the accusations you level at Rovers could be used against most Premier League teams, with the exception of the big four, Villa and Everton. Other teams like Spurs have played some attractive football in recent years but with much less success than ours. The mercernaries thing you speak of - that's symptomatic of the modern game and is something you'll find at most clubs bar the obvious exceptions. How many clubs in our league are packed with stars with big sell on values? Last season we had Roque, Bentley, Warnock and Samba who could all have gone for big values, and Benni who could have left for big money the previous summer. Bentley went in the summer giving Ince a bigger transfer kitty than Hughes ever had. I'd say that's comparable to a lot of teams in our league and certainly not relegation standard.

The league table at the end of the season does not lie, and we have been top 10 for the last three years comfortably, we improved on our points tally and our league position from last season and with several clubs bar Villa in decline this season, had Hughes stayed or we got a good appointment in we would have been in a prime position to kick on.

I think you're in serious denial if you don't think the squad Hughes left behind was in steady decline. Not Hughes' fault by any means but it was an inevitable by product of ever shrinking investment in the squad.

[Alan75]

Disagree completely with all of this. Relegation was avoided last season for the simple reason that we were nowhere near the bottom three sides in the league. I don't have the exact statistics for a post-October league table but I'm almost certain we'd be at least 10th or 11th.

Sure we haven't been a joy to wach in recent years but the accusations you level at Rovers could be used against most Premier League teams, with the exception of the big four, Villa and Everton. Other teams like Spurs have played some attractive football in recent years but with much less success than ours. The mercernaries thing you speak of - that's symptomatic of the modern game and is something you'll find at most clubs bar the obvious exceptions. How many clubs in our league are packed with stars with big sell on values? Last season we had Roque, Bentley, Warnock and Samba who could all have gone for big values, and Benni who could have left for big money the previous summer. Bentley went in the summer giving Ince a bigger transfer kitty than Hughes ever had. I'd say that's comparable to a lot of teams in our league and certainly not relegation standard.

The league table at the end of the season does not lie, and we have been top 10 for the last three years comfortably, we improved on our points tally and our league position from last season and with several clubs bar Villa in decline this season, had Hughes stayed or we got a good appointment in we would have been in a prime position to kick on.

Agreed that we never got into the bottom three but it was due to the start we had to the season.

After 10 games we had 21 points

After 19 games we had only picked up another 6 points.

My point being that the loss of form and manner of play isnt new Its being on going for 12 month. Fortunately Hughes had the knowledge and back room staff to keep us up. - I dont know if Ince does ,

[tony gale's mic]

I think you're in serious denial if you don't think the squad Hughes left behind was in steady decline. Not Hughes' fault by any means but it was an inevitable by product of ever shrinking investment in the squad.

As I said, the league table doesn't lie and we had improved on the previous season. Additionally, before Hughes went nicko had said that we were going to have around £10 million to spend in the summer - excluding any sales - and then the £3 million from the Trust came in, although I think that was after Inces' arrival. Without new signings the squad would have declined but had Hughes stayed then he would have had more money than ever before to spend on replacements, and with signings being his strongest suit there's no reason to think he couldn't have uncovered another gem or two. With other clubs like Everton and Spurs starting slowly then we would have been in a good position this season too.

[Jan]

If we were relegated, but we'd brought in a manager with talent, qualifications and drive (but too late to do any good) I'd buy a season ticket if relegated. With Ince, I have one, but cannot be a***d to go and won't be renewing.

[tony gale's mic]

Agreed that we never got into the bottom three but it was due to the start we had to the season.

After 10 games we had 21 points

After 19 games we had only picked up another 6 points.

My point being that the loss of form and manner of play isnt new Its being on going for 12 month. Fortunately Hughes had the knowledge and back room staff to keep us up. - I dont know if Ince does ,

That was a poor run of form - almost every team has them. Final 28 games of the season we picked up 37 points - extrapolate that to the rest of the season and it would put us on 50 points for the season which wouldve seen us 10th.

[BRFC1995]

Never have 45 minutes of football done so much to change my opinion. Completely gutless display 2nd half, was willing to let injuries and benni to come back into the fold and then judge ince. But even a conference team would be more resiliant than we where 2nd half.

There is no stand out manager yet, although hughes is very likely to be back on the market.

I've absoloutly no doubt that ince will be the next premiership manager out of a job, unless zola loses a couple more in which case the wham owners will be suicidal about the prospect of relegation.

Russian season is over is'nt it, go get advocaat. I'll never see the brightside to getting allardyce.

[Amo]

If we finished one place off Europe on the last day of the season, how are we a declining team? Yes, the squad needed strengthening, but Hughes would have had more money than previous years to do so. Instead we've hired Ince and his cheap backroom staff and signed a load of duds. Robbie Fowler is a has-been. Keith Andrews is lower league journeyman. Villanueva plays all over the place. Grella's crocked. And Danny Simpson is either so-so or non-existent.

[RevidgeBlue]

As I said, the league table doesn't lie and we had improved on the previous season. Additionally, before Hughes went nicko had said that we were going to have around £10 million to spend in the summer - excluding any sales - and then the £3 million from the Trust came in, although I think that was after Inces' arrival. Without new signings the squad would have declined but had Hughes stayed then he would have had more money than ever before to spend on replacements, and with signings being his strongest suit there's no reason to think he couldn't have uncovered another gem or two. With other clubs like Everton and Spurs starting slowly then we would have been in a good position this season too.

I know nicko said we had 10m pre sales last January, but the reality in summer was we sold two players for 18m and brought in another couple for about 7 or 7.5m.

I'm sure even St. Mark would have struggled in those circumstances.

Still, I'm sure that 25 or 30m we didn't spend will still be there for someone to spend in January.

[Zulu]

Best manager you've ever had .............without a shadow of a doubt!

That would be Bruce Rioch IMHO. Allardyce is a great manager though.

[tony gale's mic]

I know nicko said we had 10m pre sales last January, but the reality in summer was we sold two players for 18m and brought in another couple for about 7 or 7.5m.

I'm sure even St. Mark would have struggled in those circumstances.

Still, I'm sure that 25 or 30m we didn't spend will still be there for someone to spend in January.

We sold two players for £10 million (remember the sell on clause?)

[RevidgeBlue]

We sold two players for £10 million (remember the sell on clause?)

The gross figures for Friedel and Bentley were 18m.

We don't know for certain but It seems to be generally accepted that we got about 9m net for Bentley.

[trs]

That would be Bruce Rioch IMHO. Allardyce is a great manager though.

Ah Brucie, that's the one who said Bolton should be getting bigger crowds because they were the largest populated town in europe!

Dont mind me Zulu, just being childish on the per head of population thing.

[Exiled in Toronto]

As I said, the league table doesn't lie and we had improved on the previous season. Additionally, before Hughes went nicko had said that we were going to have around £10 million to spend in the summer - excluding any sales - and then the £3 million from the Trust came in, although I think that was after Inces' arrival. Without new signings the squad would have declined but had Hughes stayed then he would have had more money than ever before to spend on replacements, and with signings being his strongest suit there's no reason to think he couldn't have uncovered another gem or two. With other clubs like Everton and Spurs starting slowly then we would have been in a good position this season too.

So who out of last years team was going to kick on and improve?

Freidal at 38?

Bert at 29?

Nelsen???

Tugay????

Dunn?????

MGP??????

Roberts???????

Would RSC score 30+ goals or would he get found out 2nd season in?

Bentley ahd the season of a lifetime - for 2/3rds of it - unlikely to be repeated as is being demonstrated at Spurs

To my mind only Samba and Warnock had the potential to get any better. Most of the rest were standing still or getting worse.

And we still haven't seen this 20 zillion transfer pot yet...

[imy9]

Lets say a new manager comes in, Big Sam being the likeliest choice, what would happen? We would win a few games, climb the league and then watch mediocre football for the rest of our lives! If there is an outstanding candidate out there who will move our forward then fine, but there is no one.

What do you think we watched yesterday then? "we would win a few games,climb the league"-------well what are we waiting for?

Those few wins are virtually guarranteed when a new man takes over but in the medium to long term does not ensure success, that is what I meant.

I wonder what the odds are on Hughes being sacked by City and coming back to Rovers, not beyond the realms of fantasy....

[cn_barlow]

The thing that is apparent to me is that things have got progressively worse the longer he has been in charge.

Im going to put the victory at Everton down to the fact that he hadnt had too long to get the players playing his way. The longer he has had, the poorer results and performances have been.

The board have 2 options in my opinion. they either get rid now, giving the new guy enough time to assess the squad before january. or they stick it out with PI and pay the price.

Personally i would go for the first option, but i am not John Williams

[imy9]

So who out of last years team was going to kick on and improve?

Freidal at 38?

Bert at 29?

Nelsen???

Tugay????

Dunn?????

MGP??????

Roberts???????

Would RSC score 30+ goals or would he get found out 2nd season in?

Bentley ahd the season of a lifetime - for 2/3rds of it - unlikely to be repeated as is being demonstrated at Spurs

To my mind only Samba and Warnock had the potential to get any better. Most of the rest were standing still or getting worse.

And we still haven't seen this 20 zillion transfer pot yet...

Similar to the squad at Everton in a lot of ways.

You also forget that we have played without a genuine right back and attacking midfield player last year too. Hughes did a sterling job but the job PI took on is a lot more difficult than people are making out. When Hughes left, he didnt just leave he took his entire backroom staff with him, anyone clarify how many bodies? I think it is near double figures.

[roverfanuk]

So who out of last years team was going to kick on and improve?

Freidal at 38?

Bert at 29?

Nelsen???

Tugay????

Dunn?????

MGP??????

Roberts???????

Would RSC score 30+ goals or would he get found out 2nd season in?

Bentley ahd the season of a lifetime - for 2/3rds of it - unlikely to be repeated as is being demonstrated at Spurs

To my mind only Samba and Warnock had the potential to get any better. Most of the rest were standing still or getting worse.

And we still haven't seen this 20 zillion transfer pot yet...

Who needs to improve, i would much rather they would have maintained last season's form...

Freidal at 38 - Would have been good as ever!

Bert at 29 - Getting back on RM has given him scope to improve...

Nelsen - Was injured most last season. Playing this season would have been an improvement...

Tugay - Could have quit smoking! Maybe increased his workload as apposed to being limited to sub appearences...

Dunn - Again, injuries, wasnt particularly good coming forward last term, didn't score. Started to improve this season before his injury...

MGP - How could he improve? Erm, start scoring those stunning goals from tight angles and freekicks again... Keep the ball for longer!

Roberts - Score more.

Would RSC score 30+ goals or would he get found out 2nd season in?

Bentley ahd the season of a lifetime - for 2/3rds of it - unlikely to be repeated as is being demonstrated at Spurs

To my mind only Samba and Warnock had the potential to get any better. Most of the rest were standing still or getting worse.

And we still haven't seen this 20 zillion transfer pot yet...

[tony gale's mic]

So who out of last years team was going to kick on and improve?

Freidal at 38?

Bert at 29?

Nelsen???

Tugay????

Dunn?????

MGP??????

Roberts???????

Would RSC score 30+ goals or would he get found out 2nd season in?

Bentley ahd the season of a lifetime - for 2/3rds of it - unlikely to be repeated as is being demonstrated at Spurs

To my mind only Samba and Warnock had the potential to get any better. Most of the rest were standing still or getting worse.

And we still haven't seen this 20 zillion transfer pot yet...

I said as a team we could kick on and improve with some new signings, Hughes had dealt with the loss/loss of form of crucial players before and with his abilities to manage on a shoestring there's no reason to think he wouldn't have been able to do the same again. Didn't he inherit an ageing side from Souness? 29 is hardly that old for a footballer is it now?

Since we didn't even sign a replacement right winger I think it's fair to assume there's a decent transfer kitty left, I think most people would keep a fair amount of powder dry for the January transfer window and see how things were going. Hopefully it wouldn't be Ince spending that money.

I think RSC would have had another very good season, he still looks the part this season and when he's got chances he's looked as sharp as ever, but a combination of injuries and poor supply has meant he hasn't been able to score as many so far. Bentley is still a class act IMO and is starting to come into his own since Redknapp involved - Ramos played him right back, left midfield etc so he was hardly going to perform in those circumstances.

Fact is we had improved from the previous season and with the league being the way it is this season, many of our rivals last season apart from Villa have had a fairly average start to the season this time and we surely would have at least kept pace with them. Instead we're lumbered in a relegation dogfight with none of the fight shown by Hughes' sides. Ince was a battler too during his playing days but it sure as hell doesn't show in the way the team plays.

Those few wins are virtually guarranteed when a new man takes over but in the medium to long term does not ensure success, that is what I meant.

I wonder what the odds are on Hughes being sacked by City and coming back to Rovers, not beyond the realms of fantasy....

It is completely beyond the realms of fantasy. Unfortunately.