[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Exiled in Toronto]

I agree with you Ivan - anyone declaring such things as fact deserves to be ignored. But by the same token, insisting they must be wrong because evidence cannot be presented is in no way balanced.

For me, the content of the rumours is largely irrelevant. What bothers me is that it is indicative of the situation we are in. I cannot remember such rumours circulating at any point during Hughes' tenure. If we were performing to our capabilities and sitting in mid-table at worst, I don't imagine such things would be seeing the light of day.

Indeed. What matters are results, the calibre of the squad and performances. If all three were humming people would be praising Ince's approach to the rafters, even if he only showed up at Brockhall to batter a few of players and then on matchdays e-mailed the team talk in.

Unfortunately, Ince is batting not even one out of three at the moment so everything he allegedly does or doesn't do is seemingly fair game as to being 'the cause'.

Results are poor, his signings have not yet improved the squad and performances are getting worse not better. I wanted him to succeed and

I was an advocate of him being given time, but the financial catastrophe of relegation and this stupid transfer window means that decisions have to be taken and replacements recruited by the end of November. Ridiculous, but true. However, I have no faith that JW will do anything at all, including supporting Ince with money to spend.

[CrazyIvan]

Who is taking them as gospel?

Ok, the term 'gospel' might be a bit strong but that rumour has been bounced about so often by the same people it's just annoying. I'll defend anybody who is accused of something that isn't true (innocent until proven guilty in my book) and this rumour was quashed emphatically by the players and the board pretty recently. I'm not convinced that Ince has what it takes but he is making the right sounds and so are some of the players (Samba for example). The next few games are crucial in my view.

[jonv]

Players are falling out of bed and getting injured atm.... is there even a physio at the club?

VAUGHAN REPLACES INJURED DERBYSHIRE

Posted 17/11/08 13:30

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Everton striker James Vaughan has been called into the England Under-21 squad to face the Czech Republic on Tuesday after Blackburn's Matt Derbyshire pulled out with a groin injury.

Vaughan, 20, will be joined in the squad by Frank Fielding, the Blackburn keeper who is on loan at Northampton.

Fielding is likely to play for his club on Monday night, as is Leeds midfielder Fabian Delph, but both will join up with the squad on Tuesday morning ahead of the match at Bramall Lane, Sheffield.

[John]

Maybe it is just the way I read his quotes, but his comments are starting to get me angry. He knew what the score was with finances when he took over. Plus, if he was too scared to spend it in the summer then who is to blame there.

Don't worry, I am not 'under any illusions', as he likes to put it. Also keeps refering to changing things at the club. Zzzzzzzzz

PAUL Ince has defiantly vowed not to let the boo-boys beat him after Ewood Park made their disgust vociferously known on Saturday.

[broadsword]

he's trying to lever some money out of our Scrooge-like board and who can blame him?

You pay peanuts, you get relegation-bound monkeys. But hey-ho, at least we can be running a tight ship in the Championship.

[gazsimm]

he's trying to lever some money out of our Scrooge-like board and who can blame him?

You pay peanuts, you get relegation-bound monkeys. But hey-ho, at least we can be running a tight ship in the Championship.

we need the board to come up with the money in January, otherwise we are doomed. I wonder what has happend to the Bentley money????????????.

[broadsword]

A nice string of pearls for Burnley Bob's wife?

a holiday in teh Caribbean for John Williams?

who knows?

[John]

we need the board to come up with the money in January, otherwise we are doomed. I wonder what has happend to the Bentley money????????????.

I think there is money available but Ince could not decide who to spend it on. Plus (apparently) some transfers like Pennant fell through at the end.

[LDRover]

we need the board to come up with the money in January, otherwise we are doomed. I wonder what has happend to the Bentley money????????????.

Got to keep the powder dry Gaz, wait until the price gets really prohibitive in January and then complain we haven't got 'that' kind of money.

[Frisky Jim]

A nice string of pearls for Burnley Bob's wife?

a holiday in teh Caribbean for John Williams?

who knows?

Indeed.

Brown envelopes, anyone?

[T4E]

“Then Keith and Danny think they are Brazilian down the right hand side and after that we don’t get out of our box. It was very disappointing in the second-half.”

What on Earth?!

[philipl]

"But for some reason, unknown to me, the players didn’t listen."

Embarassing enough if that had been said if a mike had been put under Ince's nose as the full time whistle went.

But to be saying that after the post-match session with the players let alone two full days later.....

HELP!

Anyone still doubting that Ince has lost the players' respect?

[Blue blood]

"But let’s not be under any illusions we have not spent the most amount of money in this league, probably the second lowest.

“As I said before, we are changing things at this club and it will take time."

Now maybe I'm being bitter since results and performances have been pants, but that sounds as if it's ok for us to be in a relegation scrap. Well Mr Ince, it's not. A team - even with our small resources - should not go from 7th to a relegation dogfight inside 3 months.

Ince also needs to realise that time is running out; the premier league is unforgiving and does not give you much/any time to adjust. These comments seem to just be putting off addressing the situation that we're in. Ince needs to see the reality now.

Also not bothered about boos? Well, these are the fans of the club HE manages, he should be bothered that the fans that he is employed by/for are so appalled with the results. I wish he seemed as if he were bothered, or had some admission that he hasn't quite got it right.

[John]

True, he has been making the comments about money continously since he joined. It sounds like a constant moan and an excuse for us doing shyte. Well he feckin knew the situation when (much to his own disbelief) he took over the job and said he wanted to equal the points tally of last season.

Just gets me angry, as his comments seem to creative a negative vibe.

Still think it is too early for him to be sacked or anything like that, but he really needs to get a grip of the situation.

[CrazyIvan]

"But for some reason, unknown to me, the players didn’t listen."

Embarassing enough if that had been said if a mike had been put under Ince's nose as the full time whistle went.

But to be saying that after the post-match session with the players let alone two full days later.....

HELP!

Anyone still doubting that Ince has lost the players' respect?

Yes.

[imy9]

If the season finished today we would be relegated imy. Thats not word twisting that is fact as it stands.

Good job we have got 2/3's of the season left then.

"But for some reason, unknown to me, the players didn’t listen."

Embarassing enough if that had been said if a mike had been put under Ince's nose as the full time whistle went.

But to be saying that after the post-match session with the players let alone two full days later.....

HELP!

Anyone still doubting that Ince has lost the players' respect?

Didnt the Chelsea manager say the EXACT same thing two games ago, he wanted the ball played long and instructed the players to do so but they ignored him? Has he lost the respect of the players?

[martmitch]

thought it a bit unprofessional to publicly point the finger of blame at two 'brazillian' players in the press, especially two players bought in under his watch!

[FourLaneBlue]

In a lot of ways Ince was given seemingly an impossible task in the summer. There were some things that really counted against him...

1. Following on from a successful manager who had taken us to three top finishes in a row after saving us from impending relegation along with three semi-finals while spending very little. Following a successful manager is just about the hardest thing at all because expectations are sky-high.

2. Our best outfield player had publicly and tipsily declared on TV he wanted out.

3. Many of our rivals close to us in the league had far more money (Villa, City, Spurs) to spend than we did no matter what the size of our alleged war chest was in reality.

4. Although this has been over-exaggerated by some on here we had shown a bit of a decline in the past six months or so and the team/squad needed a bit of a shake-up and some key areas strengthening. We all knew central midfield and right back needed looking at as well as other areas.

5. Ince also had to overcome a negative image many might have had of him from his playing days and negative things his arrogance had led him to make about Rovers when he was at Inter.

6. The backroom staff left en masse to be with Hughes at City and Hughes would have liked to have cherry-pick some of our players which led to them being unsettled.

7. Some fans were hostile to Ince from the start and lost no attempt to belittle him. There is no denying this. However the majority of fans were willing to give him a chance...it is these that are now deciding Ince is not the right man for the club.

8. The coaching badges needed. Not the be and all but not a good point and at the very least would take up some of his time away from what could be spent on running the club.

Therefore Ince had somewhat of a mountain to climb as soon as he was appointed and none of it other than Number 5 and 8 was any of his fault. Besides that was the least important of the problems and being a success on the pitch would change all that.

However since then he has singularly failed to impress as to regards almost all of our problems and we have steadily declined. We have been gradually getting worse through his tenure and his decisions/management style seem to contributing a hell of a lot to it. However these are the main problems...

1. Backroom staff. Ray Mathias as Assistant Manager. Why? Because it worked in League 2? With so little experience at this level he needed to surround himself with experienced top-flight staff. Recipe for disaster. When he announced bringing in Nigel Winterburn as defensive coach I was delighted yet this has been an amateurish farce...the man is never there and is too busy to watch our games...his day job is media work! The appointment that received such a favourable response has turned into an embarrassment.

2. Playing players out of position sometimes works wonders but some of these are baffling. Why has he frozen out Vogel? Vogel is not the world beater any longer that made Milan splash out a load of cash but he was solid enough for us for a few games last season and promised more. Instead we have to play Warnock in his place with Ooijer at left back thus meaning we possess no mobility at all from left back. Get Vogel back in the team. It will not make us Champions League contenders but it will steady the ship in the middle somewhat.

3. Regarding the rumours...the problem when there are so many rumours floating about the place is that they are usually because something is going wrong somewhere. No doubt many of them are a load of tosh but that there are so many is a huge worry. There are always rumours but rarely a plethora without any having substance. It is not any old fans mentioning these rumours...it is including people who have supported Rovers for years and have always talked sense. There is no smoke without fire...not so much smoke anyway.

4. Transfers. The question has to be asked...why did the Fowler and Andrews transfers take so long to go through? There are certainly suggestions JW was less than impressed with some of his suggested signings and when Fowler was expected to be the first signing for us then no wonder. Why did we only go for Pennant right at the very end when we KNEW we desperately needed a right midfielder? This is the problem with Ince not being up to speed on the transfer market for Prem clubs...that is why he needed an operator beside him with some recent experience of the transfer market beside him instead of Ray Mathias.

Since the tough hand he was dealt with unfortunately Ince has not shown he is the right man for the job. Quite the opposite. If he can not inspire confidence in the fans how can he in the players? I do like his willingness to blood the youngsters and I do like his desire to play attractive football and entertain the fans. Yet that is not enough. I simply think Ince was over-promoted too quickly. An Assistant Manager role at a Prem club would have been perfect for him while he observed how a modern Prem club was run in close contact with a manager while being able to build up his contacts and his knowledge of the transfer market at the upper end. Yet he has been given the big job too early and is a little boy lost.

For the past few months I have not posted so much on here as I wanted to give Ince a fair chance. Yet I do not think he is the right man for the job and a surprise win at Spurs will not change that. Whatever we do will be a gamble but BFS took Bolton to four op-ten finishes in his last four years with the club and is the right choice. No he is not perfect but he is the safest hands we can get at a very dangerous time for our club.

For those reasons I think it is in the interest of Blackburn Rovers Football Club that Paul Ince be sacked. Placing him in the Assistant Manager role could be a masterstroke but I doubt his pride would take that and I cannot blame him.

This is not just about 45 minutes on Saturday. That was just a culmination. Those thinking that have obviously been ignoring all the many other signals.

The title of this thread has become an oxymoron. To progress means to go forward but under Ince we have regressed. It is never nice to want a manager of your club to be sacked but I think that is the only way For BRFC's progress.

Come on You Blues - 133 years and still going strong - 1875-2008

PS - Please feel free to disagree with any or all of this post. We are, after all, Rovers supporters together and while we might differ in opinion we share in all wanting what is best for the club.

[G Somerset Rover]

What on Earth?!

Regarding Ince's "Brazilian" comment, I think he's been listening to too many Ian Holloway post-match interviews. If the situation wasn't so worrying and serious then some of Ince's comments would be bleddy hillarious.

[A cup of beans]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport..._in_a_dogfight/

maybe it's late in the day, but there's some incredibly confusing /poorly communicated statements here (reminiscent of brian kidds ramblings) :

"I have always said about performances and I thought in the second half we were diabolical," Ince said.

"After Wednesday when I didn't play a full strength side, today I did and they let me down the majority of them.

"It can't always come from the management, they are the ones out there but we just capitulated when it went to 1-1 and they looked like the only team scoring.

"When it went to 2-1 we looked like the only team who would score but you can't play football like that.

"It can't be you attack, we attack, you attack. Goals change games and we had enough chances in the first half to change how that second half went."

[Frisky Jim]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport..._in_a_dogfight/

maybe it's late in the day, but there's some incredibly confusing /poorly communicated statements here (reminiscent of brian kidds ramblings) :

"I have always said about performances and I thought in the second half we were diabolical," Ince said.

"After Wednesday when I didn't play a full strength side, today I did and they let me down the majority of them.

"It can't always come from the management, they are the ones out there but we just capitulated when it went to 1-1 and they looked like the only team scoring.

"When it went to 2-1 we looked like the only team who would score but you can't play football like that.

"It can't be you attack, we attack, you attack. Goals change games and we had enough chances in the first half to change how that second half went."

I think it's fair to say that Ince is incapable of communicating clearly. No wonder he has lost the dressing room - they can't understand his waffle.

Good grief.

[CrazyIvan]

This should get a reaction...

People are making the point that it is the management and the players who need to start producing results. Fair comment and I totally agree. How about the fans? The fans are supposed to be a part of this too. When you get people booing a Rovers player because he came from a lower league side, even though he's proven to be a decent player, don't you think that will affect the team? Someone will say it, 'It is Ince's fault for signing him' but I remember Ciccio Grabbi for example and a whole host of others that weren't the best signings, they were never booed. Andrews is a decent signing. Why boo him? Don't you think that will affect the players? Where is the singing and the support? Don't you think a complete lack of support is going to affect the team? Get behind the team, sing and make yourselves heard rather than pick on the 'league 2'player. Start supporting rather than being utterly negative.

We're in the bottom three. Now's the time to get behind the team rather than on their backs.

[FourLaneBlue]

People are making the point that it is the management and the players who need to start producing results. Fair comment and I totally agree. How about the fans? The fans are supposed to be a part of this too.

That is a fair enough point. However when people start saying the fans have to do more then it means we really are in trouble.

Booing players is counter-productive while the treatment of Andrews is unfair and I feel sorry for the lad. Boo at the final whistle by all means but during the games fans should support the team. Most fans do exactly this but as always a minority do not.

[Paulo]

The people that boo Keith Andrews are idiots. They are the fans tha deserve to watch dire football and deserve to see their team relegated. Absolute disgrace, especially considering he's playing better then half the big time charlies we got.

Idiots all of them, it's a shame that they go to games, but if they didn't who would??

I'm ashamed of our club at the moment, not alot to be proud of.

[den]

This should get a reaction...

How about the fans? The fans are supposed to be a part of this too. When you get people booing a Rovers player because he came from a lower league side, even though he's proven to be a decent player, don't you think that will affect the team?

It did.

Shouldn't do. If they're all put off by a minimal reaction like that, then they don't have the guts to make a footballer - in any league.