[Archived] Paul's Progress

[CrazyIvan]

Top Post FLB

2) The Fowler deal which put a huge shadow on his transfer-market abilities...

You just cant underestimate how damaging to Paul Inces credibility this move was.

I agree, it wasn't a good decision.

[Hughesy]

I can't vouch for what might or might not have happened at the weekend but what Ince said in public was extremely mild compared to what I'd have been tempted to say.

Exactly - they got off lightly. Imagine if it was Joe Kinnear. The players deserved whatever Ince gave them on saturday evening, 2nd half THEY threw it away. They need to take a long hard look at themselves and start putting in the correct performances based on their Abilities.

[mhead]

The messageboard is 95% about Ince and Andrews. The other 5% is about Vogel ( I could never see the point of him and his style of football) and BFS (who the vociferous and celebrity posters were even more against than PI).

As someone else posted it must be so difficult to manage the Rovers at the moment(for PI and JW) with so many doommongers pushing their views.

And then Mark Hughes is one point above us with all those Superstars and English fringe players.....now that is a team with a problem.

We have to get our midfielders back AND fullbacks who can play an offensive game. And if we lose to Stoke and Wigan away - then will be the time (as with Woy Hodgson) to think about a new manager. But please remember the lack of votes for BFS.

[Bennisfromheaven]

He certainly didn't mince his words about Souness when I spoke to him the previous time he was here

....and look where he ended up!

[Frisky Jim]

As I've said before about all this "unrest" bollux it was discussed at a previous Fans Forum and dismissed completely out of hand by John Williams.

He was really really indignant about it which certainly led me to believe he wasn't trying to put any positive spin on it in any way shape or form.

I can't vouch for what might or might not have happened at the weekend but what Ince said in public was extremely mild compared to what I'd have been tempted to say.

Always have to mention the Fans Forum...

Williams is just trying to play down the turmoil in a pathetic bid to save his own neck.

He is a disgrace.

The season ticket holder who sits next to me at ewood is a family friend of Dunny's and he assures me that it was all true and that they morale in the club is excellent - they just feel its a case of picking up a win and we will start to hit form.

:D

He certainly didn't mince his words about Souness when I spoke to him the previous time he was here

He certainly didn't limit his food-intake either.

[RevidgeBlue]

Always have to mention the Fans Forum...

Williams is just trying to play down the turmoil in a pathetic bid to save his own neck.

He is a disgrace.

:D

Ok, I'll bite, reel me in.

I wouldn't normally mention it but when there's so many downright untruths floating about being presented as fact, I think it's only fair to set out the situation as stated right from the horse's mouth so to speak.

[speeeeeeedie]

The whole unrest/all is happy back and forth reminds me of a few Monty Python skits. In reality us fans have no idea what goes on at Brockhall. I do reckon the players will be p!ssed off though as they've not been winning.

Good post from Rover the Hill. Robinson does like booting it.

[Frisky Jim]

Ok, I'll bite, reel me in.

I wouldn't normally mention it but when there's so many downright untruths floating about being presented as fact, I think it's only fair to set out the situation as stated right from the horse's mouth so to speak.

The Fans Forum is no different to a politician's surgery. People ask questions, make suggestions and they are all essentially fobbed off.

Why do you think that football matters are off limits at these Q&A sessions?

[almuncle]

Is it because Williams and his board are a disgrace and don't know anything about football and if they did know anything at all they would lie to save their own miserable hides?

Just guessing .

[Majiball]

The messageboard is 95% about Ince and Andrews. The other 5% is about Vogel

Or 100% Rovers.

[Amo]

Exactly - they got off lightly. Imagine if it was Joe Kinnear. The players deserved whatever Ince gave them on saturday evening, 2nd half THEY threw it away. They need to take a long hard look at themselves and start putting in the correct performances based on their Abilities.

So does Ince.

[OscarRaven]

What an idiot.....

I will always defend my players because, at the end of the day, we are all in it together.

As I said before it is going to be a long, long hard road and I will always defend my players.

Same day.....

Then Keith and Danny think they are Brazilian down the right hand side and after that we don’t get out of our box.

For us to have to bring Tugay on to start playing football again they should be a bit embarrassed with themselves.

After Wednesday when I didn't play a full strength side, today I did and they let me down the majority of them

He's lost it. He can't even be consistent with himself in the sameday. What a nightmare he must be to work for.

[Paul]

Is it because Williams and his board are a disgrace and don't know anything about football and if they did know anything at all they would lie to save their own miserable hides?

Just guessing .

If I were you I'd ask for an appointment to meet either Williams or Finn and then see if you hold the same opinion.

[AlanK]

Especially as they got Hughes on board.

As for Ince, crikey, I don`t know what to think!

[tony gale's mic]

Do you think they were lying then?

Compare the statements coming out of the England camp about McLaren before his departure, and then afterwards. We haven't heard repeated statements of how brilliant Ince is, merely a few compliments here and there to journalists, I would imagine they would have been asked most of the time. Any talk of dressing room unrest is merely speculation and we have no real way of knowing, but you'd have to be a bit gullible to think that the noises we've heard coming out of the club completely disprove it.

[imy9]

Is it because Williams and his board are a disgrace and don't know anything about football and if they did know anything at all they would lie to save their own miserable hides?

Just guessing .

One of the greatest players of all time- Michael Laudrup stated that in 20 years he had not met a more 'football person' than John Williams, this was AFTER he said he didnt want the job.

This is also the same John Williams who appointed Hughes, our best manager since King Kenny.

I have the highest regard for the job Williams has done for our club, I have read some stupid stuff on this board but this is in the top 3.

[MCMC1875]

One of the greatest players of all time- Michael Laudrup stated that in 20 years he had not met a more 'football person' than John Williams, this was AFTER he said he didnt want the job.

This is also the same John Williams who appointed Hughes, our best manager since King Kenny.

I have the highest regard for the job Williams has done for our club, I have read some stupid stuff on this board but this is in the top 3.

Top 1 in my opinion!

[tony gale's mic]

One of the greatest players of all time- Michael Laudrup stated that in 20 years he had not met a more 'football person' than John Williams, this was AFTER he said he didnt want the job.

This is also the same John Williams who appointed Hughes, our best manager since King Kenny.

I have the highest regard for the job Williams has done for our club, I have read some stupid stuff on this board but this is in the top 3.

Laudrup never said he didnt want the job, he initially wasnt so keen but he did want the job. We chose to give it to Ince.

[47er]

That still means they are lying.

Whatever! Players and admins cover up problems and try to keep them "in-house" and we only discover the truth later--often years later. Nothing new there.

I'm sorry. Lying is not telling the truth. Whatever the reason, if he is not telling the truth, he is lying. You do not tell out and out lies to deflect questions; you say something neutral and non-commital but you don't say it's great when you mean it's atrocious. If you do that's a lie. they haven't just said "Well, i have no problems with anything" They have said they enjoy training and that the spirit in the camp is great. Look at how pleased they were on Saturday when the goal went in.

and it's not just the first team who are saying it. I heard from a younger player the other day, "Ince is a nice guy and a good trainer" No axe to grind, nothing to cover up, just talking to a group of teachers in his own language so there was no ambiguity.

You're just terrified we'll get Sam and you'll have to throw your season-ticket away!

[RevidgeBlue]

Compare the statements coming out of the England camp about McLaren before his departure, and then afterwards. We haven't heard repeated statements of how brilliant Ince is, merely a few compliments here and there to journalists, I would imagine they would have been asked most of the time. Any talk of dressing room unrest is merely speculation and we have no real way of knowing, but you'd have to be a bit gullible to think that the noises we've heard coming out of the club completely disprove it.

For what it's worth, Matt Jansen said tonight at the Hordens that there is a really good atmosphere and feel good factor about the Club notwithstanding we've had a few bad results. He said there was no backbiting or bitching prevalent whatsoever.

But never mind, certain people will choose to ignore direct evidence such as this and words direct from the Chairman's mouth and prefer to believe innuendo started by people with an agenda who aren't even prepared to reveal their (non -existent) sources.

[JAL]

Compare the statements coming out of the England camp about McLaren before his departure, and then afterwards. We haven't heard repeated statements of how brilliant Ince is, merely a few compliments here and there to journalists, I would imagine they would have been asked most of the time. Any talk of dressing room unrest is merely speculation and we have no real way of knowing, but you'd have to be a bit gullible to think that the noises we've heard coming out of the club completely disprove it.

Regarding dressing room speculation I'd say that they are more than happy because half of them are playing at a level ABOVE their capabilities and thus paid above their true status would you not agree.

The ever increasing empty seats allied to the poor results and poor performances point this way.

[Tris]

Compare the statements coming out of the England camp about McLaren before his departure, and then afterwards. We haven't heard repeated statements of how brilliant Ince is, merely a few compliments here and there to journalists, I would imagine they would have been asked most of the time. Any talk of dressing room unrest is merely speculation and we have no real way of knowing, but you'd have to be a bit gullible to think that the noises we've heard coming out of the club completely disprove it.

Well, Rev has got the story in first, but a guy called Matt Jansen sat on a stage in front of 200 Rovers fans tonight and admitted he has nothing to win and nothing to lose in his quest to maybe play football again. He spoke honestly about his England (non) call up, the days and moments before his accident in Rome, and the turmoil he has been through since.

He spoke honestly about the likes of Yorke, Cole, Souness and Hughes (as a player and manager), what roommate John Curtis watched on TV the night before the Carling Cup Final, and plenty more besides. About John Williams having had a vision of building a side around Duff, Dunn and Jansen - - - and quipping last week that he had two of them back, only Duffer needed now

And he spoke honestly (unless anyone wants to call him a liar tonight) about the fact that the camp is united under Paul Ince, and despite the bad result on Saturday the lads are up for putting things right this weekend and everyone's batting for the same team.

Believe the rumour merchants on a website - who were already proved totally wrong the first time this crap was bandied around - or believe a Rovers legend ... you decide.

[tony gale's mic]

Well, Rev has got the story in first, but a guy called Matt Jansen sat on a stage in front of 200 Rovers fans tonight and admitted he has nothing to win and nothing to lose in his quest to maybe play football again. He spoke honestly about his England (non) call up, the days and moments before his accident in Rome, and the turmoil he has been through since.

He spoke honestly about the likes of Yorke, Cole, Souness and Hughes (as a player and manager), what roommate John Curtis watched on TV the night before the Carling Cup Final, and plenty more besides. About John Williams having had a vision of building a side around Duff, Dunn and Jansen - - - and quipping last week that he had two of them back, only Duffer needed now

And he spoke honestly (unless anyone wants to call him a liar tonight) about the fact that the camp is united under Paul Ince, and despite the bad result on Saturday the lads are up for putting things right this weekend and everyone's batting for the same team.

Believe the rumour merchants on a website - who were already proved totally wrong the first time this crap was bandied around - or believe a Rovers legend ... you decide.

I don't have to decide. Jansen is a Rovers legend but it all depends on how he said it. If he came out of his own accord and said that then I'd be leaning more towards it being true. But if someone put him on the spot and asked him "how's the spirit in the camp?" or words to that effect or a question where he'd have to comment on it, then I wouldn't expect an answer any different from that whatever the circumstances were. It's not about calling him a liar, it's about calling him a professional. Even if team spirit was bad in the camp, I would definitely give the answer that Jansen gave above if I was in his shoes. He's just arrived to train at Rovers, if everyone was tearing each others hair out would you expect him to go shooting his mouth out to a gathering of Rovers fans?!

Like I said though I'm not going with either angle as both sources have their problems. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between though - players can't be that happy with being played out of position, they can't be that happy with recent results and our performances seem to indicate low spirits. On the other hand I wouldn't give that much credence to Ince being some kind of horrendous bully. How far along that scale it is is something we may never know.

[Tris]

I don't have to decide. Jansen is a Rovers legend but it all depends on how he said it.

Hang on - you've based a load of your recent postings on the say-so of a freelance tabloid journalist you've never met. How did HE say all the stuff you're using to shoot bullets? What was HIS body language like on that post, PM or email??

[tony gale's mic]

Hang on - you've based a load of your recent postings on the say-so of a freelance tabloid journalist you've never met. How did HE say all the stuff you're using to shoot bullets? What was HIS body language like on that post, PM or email??

You've missed the point entirely once more...

It's not about body language. It's about the context, whether it was Matt Jansen posting on this very message board or Matt Jansen speaking at the Hordens. If he said that team spirit was really good without being prompted to talk about it by any member of the audience then I'd give it a fair amount of credence. Maybe this happened, I wasn't there. But if someone asked him how the team spirit was in the camp, or asked him a question where he was put on the spot, then I'd fully expect an answer like the one he gave, no matter what was going on.

That reasoning would work whether he was posting on here or replying in a face to face discussion.

If you think Matty would be unprofessional enough to blabber about any problems regarding team spirit behind the scenes having just arrived, then you're doing him a great disservice. I'm not saying the team spirit is definitely low, and I'm not giving much credence to these rumours. But unless Matt has come out with this statement without any prompting then I'm not giving any credence to this either.