[Archived] Paul's Progress

[Tris]

  tony gale's mic said:

It's not about body language

No, it's about common sense.

[RevidgeBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

I don't have to decide. Jansen is a Rovers legend but it all depends on how he said it. If he came out of his own accord and said that then I'd be leaning more towards it being true. But if someone put him on the spot and asked him "how's the spirit in the camp?" or words to that effect or a question where he'd have to comment on it, then I wouldn't expect an answer any different from that whatever the circumstances were.

He said it completely unprompted as there was no direct question about "How's the spirit?"

I can't remember the exact question that led up to his comment. At one point he was asked whether he was training with the first team squad which he confirmed.

His attitude and demeanour led me to believe he was absolutely sincere about what he was saying.

As was the case with John Williams who was genuinely seething at the Fans Forum.

[tony gale's mic]

  Tris said:

No, it's about common sense.

Thanks for that reply Tris, I do rather like your style of picking out a small portion of my post and replying with something utterly irrelevant.

[RevidgeBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

Thanks for that reply Tris, I do rather like your style of picking out a small portion of my post and replying with something utterly irrelevant.

Try replying to mine then.

[tony gale's mic]

  RevidgeBlue said:

He said it completely unprompted as there was no direct question about "How's the spirit?"

I can't remember the exact question that led up to his comment. At one point he was asked whether he was training with the first team squad which he confirmed.

His attitude and demeanour led me to believe he was absolutely sincere about what he was saying.

As was the case with John Williams who was genuinely seething at the Fans Forum.

If it was indeed a comment when he wasn't put on the spot then it does warrant some credence without a doubt. This is a secondhand source but as I said it does deserve some credence.

However it would be very foolish to treat this as anywhere near gospel that everything is rosy in the team camp under Ince. Jansen's just arrived, won't have formed bonds with that many of the players to gauge what people actually think, will only be seeing a surface view of things and isn't a member of the first team squad.

I've said before that I'm sure the reports from some of Ince being an outright bully and team spirit being in complete pieces are almost certainly bull, but it would be naive to think that everything is fine and dandy too just on the back of some isolated comments.

[RevidgeBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

If it was indeed a comment when he wasn't put on the spot then it does warrant some credence without a doubt. This is a secondhand source but as I said it does deserve some credence.

However it would be very foolish to treat this as anywhere near gospel that everything is rosy in the team camp under Ince. Jansen's just arrived, won't have formed bonds with that many of the players to gauge what people actually think, will only be seeing a surface view of things and isn't a member of the first team squad.

I've said before that I'm sure the reports from some of Ince being an outright bully and team spirit being in complete pieces are almost certainly bull, but it would be naive to think that everything is fine and dandy too just on the back of some isolated comments.

Spirited defence of the indefensible.

I think you might have a fine career as a politician/spin doctor pending but I'm not sure how you class the above as "a second hand source"

I was there and Jansen said it.

[tony gale's mic]

  RevidgeBlue said:

Spirited defence of the indefensible.

I think you might have a fine career as a politician/spin doctor pending but I'm not sure how you class the above as "a second hand source"

I was there and Jansen said it.

Congratulations for picking out the most irrelevant part of my post too. I think the pro-Ince camp are the ones defending the indefensible..

It's a secondhand source because while I'm sure he's said it, you're making a subjective opinion about his attitude and demeanour, when I would really need to see that for myself to form my own opinion. Like I said if it was indeed completely umprompted which I'll take your word for then it's credible at least, but I've outlined the reasons above as to why it's hardly unequivocal proof or anything near.

[SouthAussieRover]

Ince's Blue and White army.

Let's go on and beat Spurtz.

[RevidgeBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

Congratulations for picking out the most irrelevant part of my post too. I think the pro-Ince camp are the ones defending the indefensible..

It's a secondhand source because while I'm sure he's said it, you're making a subjective opinion about his attitude and demeanour, when I would really need to see that for myself to form my own opinion.

I'm not going to argue with you after this because you would argue black is white and vice versa until the cows come home.

If we're being picky though, you've had feedback from a first hand source that you are choosing not to accept at face value.

[Tris]

  tony gale's mic said:

It's a secondhand source because while I'm sure he's said it, you're making a subjective opinion about his attitude and demeanour, when I would really need to see that for myself to form my own opinion.

So going back a step then, why do you form really strong opinions on the say-so of a tabloid journo who you have never met, and then use those opinions to shoot bullets and build never ending arguments on this MB??? You must be making subjective opinions about attitude and demeanour every time you read a post / pm / email.

You have just exposed the lack of substance behind all of your posts against Ince and Rovers since June.

[tony gale's mic]

  Tris said:

So going back a step then, why do you form really strong opinions on the say-so of a tabloid journo who you have never met, and then use those opinions to shoot bullets and build never ending arguments on this MB??? You must be making subjective opinions about attitude and demeanour every time you read a post / pm / email.

You have just exposed the lack of substance behind all of your posts against Ince and Rovers since June.

Funny, I would say current form is proving all of my posts expressing my disapproval at Ince's appointment.

The only opinion I've formed on nicko's say-so is the one about JW paying a little too much attention to what was said on this MB and not picking Laudrup until he'd read this board. Whenever I've said this I've always offered the caveat that it was on nicko's say so, but with the knowledge that he doesn't really lie about these things on here. Most of the rest of my contentions were against his lack of experience, his signings, his failure to do coaching badges and most recently his baffling tactics.

The situations you're comparing are apples and oranges. Players defending Ince in interviews - they're not going to say anything different. It is definitely within their best interests (and the clubs best interests) for them not to say anything negative about Ince to the press. If all hell was breaking loose at Ewood I still wouldnt break ranks if I were them. That's not to say it is.

Nicko has no such ranks to break, that's not to say he's never wrong about stuff but more often than not he is right about stuff. People called bull on the Andrews thing as it rumbled on for a good few weeks without us signing him. Same with the Friedel thing - whatever the story behind that (and people jumped to their own conclusions on that one).

You accuse me of building arguments but all I see from yourself is slagging people off just for not favouring Ince as our manager. If you want to come out and say something saying Ince is the best thing since sliced bread, I may argue your points but I wouldn't question your right or your intentions in saying it. You seem to adopt a slightly more militant view on things...and now you've been made to look a little silly by your hero's start to the season you've only got worse.

  RevidgeBlue said:

I'm not going to argue with you after this because you would argue black is white and vice versa until the cows come home.

If we're being picky though, you've had feedback from a first hand source that you are choosing not to accept at face value.

I am accepting what he's said but I can't see how you can't argue that he's nowhere NEAR in the same position as a Chris Samba or a Roque Santa Cruz. Even then, using the McLaren England analogy that I did earlier, by the sounds of it spirits were fairly high in the camp, McLaren being pally with the players, but inside people were actually thinking he was a bit of a clown, as has come out in interviews since.

Maybe this is happening, maybe it isn't but all I'm doing is saying this isn't anywhere near proving everything is fine in the camp.

[AggyBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

Nicko has no such ranks to break,

He's a bloody burnley fan. He loved to wind us up. You didn't fall for any of his crap did you

[tony gale's mic]

  AggyBlue said:

He's a bloody burnley fan. He loved to wind us up. You didn't fall for any of his crap did you

@#/? won me close to a grand with the Chelsea and Rovers manager sagas...

[AggyBlue]

  tony gale's mic said:

@#/? won me close to a grand with the Chelsea and Rovers manager sagas...

Ah, you must be a burnley fan too then

[almuncle]

  almuncle said:

Is it because Williams and his board are a disgrace and don't know anything about football and if they did know anything at all they would lie to save their own miserable hides?

Just guessing .

This is not what I think !I was trying to reply to Frisky Jim's earlier question in his own style Sorry

[CrazyIvan]

  almuncle said:

This is not what I think !I was trying to reply to Frisky Jim's earlier question in his own style Sorry

I'd got that and it made me smile...

[CrazyIvan]

It's a wierd old season, I've never seen so many injuries to players and not just Rovers players. Take a look at the England squad for example... If this were a competitive game rather than a friendly I bet Capello would be pulling his hair out. I hope Ince can get his first team players back fit soon...

[gumboots]

  47er said:

Whatever! Players and admins cover up problems and try to keep them "in-house" and we only discover the truth later--often years later. Nothing new there.

You're just terrified we'll get Sam and you'll have to throw your season-ticket away!

I wouldn't throw it away; just leave it in the drawer and renew it next year until we came to our senses and sacked him. Then I could come on here, gloat and say "See I told you he was no good"

[gumboots]

  almuncle said:

This is not what I think !I was trying to reply to Frisky Jim's earlier question in his own style Sorry

I too realised because it was at complete odds with anything you had said before. I have to admit I'm wavering in my feelings as to whether Ince can turn it round but still really want him to.

  CrazyIvan said:

It's a wierd old season, I've never seen so many injuries to players and not just Rovers players. Take a look at the England squad for example... If this were a competitive game rather than a friendly I bet Capello would be pulling his hair out. I hope Ince can get his first team players back fit soon...

But how many would be missing if it were a real game and not a friendly?

[CrazyIvan]

  gumboots said:

But how many would be missing if it were a real game and not a friendly?

That is the million dollar question...

[gillibrand]

  gumboots said:

I wouldn't throw it away; just leave it in the drawer and renew it next year until we came to our senses and sacked him. Then I could come on here, gloat and say "See I told you he was no good"

Just like we did with Ince.

[imy9]

So we now have Matt Jansen- A true Rovers legend stating that the team spirit in the camp is good and there is no back biting.

I find it incredulous that people can actually give air time to "my mate who knows a player said" (lasting how many pages?) but when an actual player comes out and states what he thinks then there are a million reasons to explain why he said it! (this will only last a page as its Pro Ince)

That is now Jansen, Dunn, Roberts and the Big Kiwi who have come out and stated that the team spirit is good in the camp, can anyone name any current players in Ince's squad who have said anything different?

[gumboots]

  imy9 said:

So we now have Matt Jansen- A true Rovers legend stating that the team spirit in the camp is good and there is no back biting.

I find it incredulous that people can actually give air time to "my mate who knows a player said" (lasting how many pages?) but when an actual player comes out and states what he thinks then there are a million reasons to explain why he said it! (this will only last a page as its Pro Ince)

That is now Jansen, Dunn, Roberts and the Big Kiwi who have come out and stated that the team spirit is good in the camp, can anyone name any current players in Ince's squad who has said anything different?

No and not even any who have been caught hinting at it. Obviously they are reasonably content at the moment because Spurs players were falling all over themselves to say what was wrong when they sensed their manager might be going.

[Sparky Marky]

  imy9 said:

So we now have Matt Jansen- A true Rovers legend stating that the team spirit in the camp is good and there is no back biting.

I find it incredulous that people can actually give air time to "my mate who knows a player said" (lasting how many pages?) but when an actual player comes out and states what he thinks then there are a million reasons to explain why he said it! (this will only last a page as its Pro Ince)

That is now Jansen, Dunn, Roberts and the Big Kiwi who have come out and stated that the team spirit is good in the camp, can anyone name any current players in Ince's squad who has said anything different?

Yep, and as he's looking to win a new contract he's hardly gonna come out and say that it's all a bag of @#/?, morale's low etc..

[BuckyRover]

Paul Ince Ince Ince!

Up the Rovers!