[Archived] World Cup Qualifiers 2010

[RoyRover]

should of won your group matty boy should of won your group .

You're right. If we hadn't drawn six games, beaten Montenegro when we were on top and held on to beat Italy, this wouldn't have happened. Doesn't make it any easier to take though.

[Majiball]

I want to see those nations at the world cup. Most people probably do. You can have the likes of Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo in the world's biggest tournament or you can have Keith Andrews and, erm, that Bosnian guy. Tough one...

Anyway, hard luck on Ireland but it's for the best (better TV next summer anyway)

Thats a preposterous attitude, I want the teams at the world cup to have earnt their place otherwise what is the point in qualifying?

I wont comment on what we should be able to expect, but the reality is as I painted it. The lesson from last night is that the current way in which football matches are officiated are not sufficient to ensure a fair result. That lesson needs to be learned, and quickly. Unless of course we think we can rely on the players to be self-policing.

Perhaps we should be able to expect that, but in reality that is naive at best.

Personally I hope the Irish do everything they can to put pressure on FIFA and Blatter, the decision to seed play off teams was a disgrace. Its high time video evidence was brought in, fair play and the such are meant to cornerstones of our game and it just doesn't happen. I've long wondered how fair some games are at the big tournaments.

Roy Rover great post by the way.

[Tom]

Thats a preposterous attitude, I want the teams at the world cup to have earnt their place otherwise what is the point in qualifying?

France won their playoff, they have earned their place

[mick]

I think that Trappatoni is correct when he says that both games should be 90mins and then straight to penalties after that. I would suggest that regardless of the score after the first leg that 5 penalties be taken and then after the second leg another 5 penalties and the penalty totals decide the game if it is tied. In that way there is fairness and balance in the outcome.

[Tris]

By taking the dreadfully late decision - just a few weeks ago - to seed the play-off draw in Europe, FIFA have totally contradicted themselves.

This is the same FIFA which - before the 2006 World Cup in Germany - freed up an extra finals spot for minnows from non-footballing parts of the globe by denying the right of the current winners to defend their status of World Champions. Sure, both Brazil and Italy (2002 and 2006 Champions) have made it through to the following tournament, but some of the gloss has gone.

That's why earlier in the week, we were a Plymouth striker's goal away from seeing Bahrain as one of the final 32. Instead it's New Zealand. At least we know one of their players quite well - I challenge anyone on here to name a member of the Bahrain squad without looking it up!

The point stands - FIFA wanted their finals tournament to represent all areas of the world, and a wide diversity of cultures and countries, and changed some rules to bring that about.

In blind panic and for totally the opposite reasons - FIFA changed more rules only weeks ago. Seeing France (1998 champs, runners up last time), Portugal (the team of the most expensive and marketable player in the world) and Russia (source of most of the new money in football, and the biggest potential country for immediate growth) heading for the play-offs was a huge threat to the cash value of the 2010 World Cup.

In this scenario, the likes of Bosnia, Ireland and Slovenia were the flies in the ointment.

So seeding the play-offs was a leg-up for France and Portugal without a doubt, to help those marketable teams join a tournament which FIFA had already made rules to enable the likes of North Korea, Honduras and New Zealand to gatecrash.

But in purely sporting terms, the seeding of the qualifying groups should have been enough to ensure France, Russia and Portugal were already home and dry before any play-offs!

If they weren't good enough over 10 games (against the likes of Albania, Malta, Lithuania ... and Serbia (who topped Group 7 ahead of France)) - then tough - at that point it should have been luck of the Irish and winner takes all - totally in line with FIFA's objectives to allow minnows their chance and a global football party to be proud of - with the star turns there on merit alone.

The Irish had no luck in the draw, and even less luck last night. It was a dreadful result for the World Cup, because it massively highlights in a single second of match action - with that awful, obvious, scrutinised, lambasted handball - the most vile way to break the rules of this sport - just how unfair FIFA's late seeding of this draw actually was.

They got their boys through, but nobody is happy, because the fairness and integrity of the tournament has already gone ... 16 days before the draw in Cape Town.

[Fife Rover]

I think that Trappatoni is correct when he says that both games should be 90mins and then straight to penalties after that. I would suggest that regardless of the score after the first leg that 5 penalties be taken and then after the second leg another 5 penalties and the penalty totals decide the game if it is tied. In that way there is fairness and balance in the outcome.

You're just not getting it Mick.....the powers that be don't want fairness and balance; they want MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!

Fairness and balance won't maximise the profits for them. Do try and keep up with the aims of the modern game.

[AggyBlue]

Yep, the Irish were cheated.

What chance has the modern game when the head of FIFA, the clown that is Blatter condones cheating. No doubt he's had a chuckle with his bedmate Platini, each admitting to they other that they would have done the same.

[Presty On Tour]

[mick]

Fife, that is your tongue sticking out of your cheek, is it not? I can't believe that you are such a cynic. Why Mr. BLATTER HAS NOTHING BUT THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE BURGEONING FOOTBALL NATIONS AT HEART...sorry, had to shout as FIFA seems to be deaf.

[M-K]

May I ask what country you follow?

I'm English but I really can't stand the England team. It's hard to get behind a side that has John Terry, Ashley Cole, a super expensive foreign coach (surely that's some major rule-bending in an international tournament) and the goddamn English media talking them up like they actually represent the average English man.

Always been quite partial to Portugal, I suppose, since the days of Paolo Futre. Colombia too.

[broadsword]

France won their playoff, they have earned their place

Not through fair play mind you. But we shan't concern ourselves with such piffling trivialities.

[RoyRover]

By taking the dreadfully late decision - just a few weeks ago - to seed the play-off draw in Europe, FIFA have totally contradicted themselves.

This is the same FIFA which - before the 2006 World Cup in Germany - freed up an extra finals spot for minnows from non-footballing parts of the globe by denying the right of the current winners to defend their status of World Champions. Sure, both Brazil and Italy (2002 and 2006 Champions) have made it through to the following tournament, but some of the gloss has gone.

That's why earlier in the week, we were a Plymouth striker's goal away from seeing Bahrain as one of the final 32. Instead it's New Zealand. At least we know one of their players quite well - I challenge anyone on here to name a member of the Bahrain squad without looking it up!

The point stands - FIFA wanted their finals tournament to represent all areas of the world, and a wide diversity of cultures and countries, and changed some rules to bring that about.

In blind panic and for totally the opposite reasons - FIFA changed more rules only weeks ago. Seeing France (1998 champs, runners up last time), Portugal (the team of the most expensive and marketable player in the world) and Russia (source of most of the new money in football, and the biggest potential country for immediate growth) heading for the play-offs was a huge threat to the cash value of the 2010 World Cup.

In this scenario, the likes of Bosnia, Ireland and Slovenia were the flies in the ointment.

So seeding the play-offs was a leg-up for France and Portugal without a doubt, to help those marketable teams join a tournament which FIFA had already made rules to enable the likes of North Korea, Honduras and New Zealand to gatecrash.

But in purely sporting terms, the seeding of the qualifying groups should have been enough to ensure France, Russia and Portugal were already home and dry before any play-offs!

If they weren't good enough over 10 games (against the likes of Albania, Malta, Lithuania ... and Serbia (who topped Group 7 ahead of France)) - then tough - at that point it should have been luck of the Irish and winner takes all - totally in line with FIFA's objectives to allow minnows their chance and a global football party to be proud of - with the star turns there on merit alone.

The Irish had no luck in the draw, and even less luck last night. It was a dreadful result for the World Cup, because it massively highlights in a single second of match action - with that awful, obvious, scrutinised, lambasted handball - the most vile way to break the rules of this sport - just how unfair FIFA's late seeding of this draw actually was.

They got their boys through, but nobody is happy, because the fairness and integrity of the tournament has already gone ... 16 days before the draw in Cape Town.

I completely agree with you on this Tris. The thing that riles me most out of this is Fifa's role in the whole thing. France and Portugal were the top seeds in their group (I can't remember if Russia or Germany were the top seed in their group) and thus were deemed to be the best team in these groups and who on paper should qualify. Yet their qualifying campaigns were such a disaster, with France picking up where they've consistently been under Domenech and Portugal embarrassing themselves with Quieroz at the helm, that Fifa, desperate to see these major nations qualify and bring the most amount of money to the World Cup, changed the rules in the middle of a qualifying campaign and decided to seed the playoffs. This is the point that makes me the sickest of all and can't believe that more hasn't been made of this by the press. I can't think of any other professional sporting event, where the rules are changed in the middle of qualifying campaign! If they aren't good enough to do it over 10 games, then that's their own fault. They shouldn't need yet another helping hand from Fifa. I don't think that Fifa have even ever tried to explain their decision. We all know why they've done it (as you say Tris so that the World Cup Champions of 1998, the European Cup winners of 2000 and the World Cup runners up from 2004, the team with the most high profile, expensive and marketable player on the planet and the country which has billions of pounds to offer football have yet another advantage to qualify),they know that we know and any explanation other than this one, which they couldn't openly admit to, would sound ridiculous.

I've taken this directly from the Fifa website and their thoughts on 'Fair Play'.

"The generic concept of fair play is a fundamental part of the game of football. It represents the positive benefits of playing by the rules, using common sense and respecting fellow players, referees, opponents and fans.

The Fair Play Campaign was conceived largely as an indirect result of the 1986 FIFA World Cup™ in Mexico, when the handball goal by Diego Maradona stimulated the admirable reaction of the England coach, Sir Bobby Robson. Since then, the campaign has had with the unconditional support of former FIFA President João Havelange and current President Joseph S. Blatter.

To give fair play more visibility, FIFA created a programme that turned the generic notion into a simple design and an easy to understand code of conduct that could be recognised and respected by players and fans alike.

Fair Play has a fundamental role in sport and there is a need to apply it to all sporting activities, especially children's activities. Children need strong values to grow up with, and football, being a team sport, makes them realise how essential discipline, respect, team spirit and fair play are for the game and for life.

FIFA's Fair Play Campaign is represented by the slogan "My Game is Fair Play"."

See for yourself.

At first when I read this, it makes me laugh, then it makes me even more angry. Some of the contradictions here are quite flabbergasting. How does Fifa's decision to change the rules midway through a qualifying campaign, to give a greater advantage to the bigger nations align with fair play being a "fundamental part of the game of football. It represents the positive benefits of playing by the rules, using common sense and respecting fellow players, referees, opponents and fans." This decision to change the rules and seed the playoffs isn't playing by the rules, it's the complete opposite in fact. I suppose it does make common sense to Fifa to have the countries that will make you billions of pounds there. But in no way does it respect players and fans, apart from those from major footballing nations.

Then they bring in the old nugget of giving children a good example to follow, so they realise the importance of "discipline, respect, team spirit and fair play are for the game and for life." So corruption, cheating, fixing, backhanders, jobs for the boys and favours for the lads is ok if you can get away with it. If you do get caught cheating, then don't worry, it won't be in the Fifa rule book to do anything about it.

This campaign was set up mainly because of the Maradona's 'Hand Of God' goal from 1986 and apparently has "the unconditional support of ... current President Joseph S. Blatter." Yet, when a similar incident happens, Blatter is nowhere to be seen to be giving his unconditional support.

The double standards, contradictions and hypocrisy of it all is sickening and goes to show the corruption that plagues our beautiful game. Ever since the seeding of the playoffs, Bosnia, Ireland, Slovenia and the Ukraine knew that they weren't welcome at the World Cup. And as you say Tris, it's when you see France qualifying for the biggest event on the planet on the back of cheating, that you realise how cruel and despicable an act Fifa's decision to seed the playoffs was.

[Tom]

Not through fair play mind you. But we shan't concern ourselves with such piffling trivialities.

Did you concern yourself with it that Rovers made it to the Premier League with a blatant disregard to fair play?

Maybe our entire history was rewritten when Speedie dived and it didn't bother me one jot.

Although I was incensed when Diouf dived against us, such is the life of a football fan.

[broadsword]

Well, I didn't suggest that there was a replay, but then I wouldn't have complained if a penalty hadn't been given.

It's not the same when you cheat.

Like someone doing a road race, and they take a shortcut.

[Tom]

To be honest Bryan I think a lot of it comes down to your alligencies, I wasn't too bothered who won the other night have always liked Henry as a player simply because he's one of the greatest I've had the pleasure of seeing in action.

If the handball happened against Rovers I would be livid and asking for every punishment under the sun.

It's easy for me to suggest it's history and to move on because I have no vested interest at all in it and in honesty would prefer Henry's reputation as one of the best ever to stay intact. A point I made earlier remains, Henry is a born winner, he's won about all there is to win and some people will do whatever it takes to win, rightly or wrongly.

[LeChuck]

I'm genuinely puzzled by this whole situation (not just on here, but everywhere). Can I ask a question to the people who feel strongly against the handball?

How will you react next time a Rovers player does a deliberate handball? Or a slightly different scenario; how will you react on Saturday when a Rovers player claims for a throw-in/corner that they know isn't theirs?

[DE.]

Ireland had plenty of chances to beat France, both in the first and second leg. It's their fault that they were in a position to lose in that way. Also, many are acting as if Ireland would have gone through should the match have finished 1-0. It would have gone to penalties, and I would have backed France then to go through anyway. Ireland have had plenty of luck both in this year's qualifiers and in the 2002 world cup, so I struggle to have sympathy for them. Everyone knows Henry's a cheat - hardly breaking news there.

If it had happened in favour of the Irish, would they be so willing to replay the game? I think not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8370327.stm

Roy Keane talking some sense.

[mellison24]

I'm genuinely puzzled by this whole situation (not just on here, but everywhere). Can I ask a question to the people who feel strongly against the handball?

How will you react next time a Rovers player does a deliberate handball? Or a slightly different scenario; how will you react on Saturday when a Rovers player claims for a throw-in/corner that they know isn't theirs?

The problem is that we HAVE to contradict ourselves. If it was a rovers player (or if it was US playing for England) we wouldn't be bothered (would most likely do the same). I am against Henry's cheating, but agree that the worst that can happen is what SHOULD: It was a handball in the box, which is a red card and 3-match ban. So give him a 3-match ban!!

As much as the handball incensed me (and it did, cos it cost me a 120quid win after putting 20quid on 6/1), the circumstances surrounding it shouldn't really matter. Yes, Henry's actions were a disgraceful show of cheating. But it is football. S**t happens.

But I have learned one thing from this. As much as we rile our own FA, I think I trust them ahead of FIFA.

[Shaddy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8370327.stm

Roy Keane talking some sense.

He is talking some sense. But... geeze, he really has become a cantankerous old man. He's always had those wild eyes, but coupled with grumpy old man syndrome, hearing him talk is quite unsettling. It seems to me to be very mean spirited to place the fault with Given ("Where's my keeper.", etc.) at the same time as being dismissive of the man who, by consensus, really should shoulder the blame (Henry).

[Neil Weaver]

As much as the handball incensed me (and it did, cos it cost me a 120quid win after putting 20quid on 6/1), the circumstances surrounding it shouldn't really matter. Yes, Henry's actions were a disgraceful show of cheating. But it is football. S**t happens.

Minor point in the grand scheme of things but might be worth it to your pocket! Match odds are usually based on the result at full time, and that was an Ireland win (which was about 6/1 or 13/2 I seem to remember). So unless your bet specifically included extra time, it was a 1-0 Ireland win.

Edit - and on Keane : he's a bitter hypocrite who still bears a grudge against the FAI. If this had happened against his beloved MU, would he have said the same things?

[Tom]

The problem is that we HAVE to contradict ourselves. If it was a rovers player (or if it was US playing for England) we wouldn't be bothered (would most likely do the same). I am against Henry's cheating, but agree that the worst that can happen is what SHOULD: It was a handball in the box, which is a red card and 3-match ban. So give him a 3-match ban!!

As much as the handball incensed me (and it did, cos it cost me a 120quid win after putting 20quid on 6/1), the circumstances surrounding it shouldn't really matter. Yes, Henry's actions were a disgraceful show of cheating. But it is football. S**t happens.

But I have learned one thing from this. As much as we rile our own FA, I think I trust them ahead of FIFA.

Wait what?

Since when was a handball in the opposition box a red card offence? Deliberate handball is a yellow card unless its stopping a goal scoring opportunity.

If you are insistent on punishing him give him a belated yellow as thats all the offence warranted

[Hughesy]

As much as the handball incensed me (and it did, cos it cost me a 120quid win after putting 20quid on 6/1), the circumstances surrounding it shouldn't really matter.

Bets are based on 90 mins so therefore you won.

There is now way you would of got 6/1 on them winning extra time either so not sure what bet you had on?! Get checking your ticket if I was you...

[mellison24]

No, I put an Ireland win (in any way, whether it be after normal/extra time or penalties) and got 6/1. And fair point about the 'offense' thing. In terms of a red card, that is still me being incensed by what happened. That was my attempt to be realistic about the whole thing. I'm mad, aside from the bet that cocked up. It's mostly the fact that my cousins were over there having paid roughly 200quid each to watch the game (thats 3 cousins and 600quid). They are Irish. They are devastated. But as I say, you cant REALLY do anything about it, or all kinds of offences will be under the microscope at EVERY game.

Bring in video technology!! ASAP!!

[jonv]

Bets are based on 90 mins so therefore you won.

There is now way you would of got 6/1 on them winning extra time either so not sure what bet you had on?! Get checking your ticket if I was you...

CAN WE PER-LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE HAVE AN UPDATE

[Hughesy]

No, I put an Ireland win (in any way, whether it be after normal/extra time or penalties) and got 6/1.

Who was that bet with!?!