[Archived] Gordon Brown

[thenodrog]

These are just observations:

The expenses crisis is vastly exacerbated by the Telegraph.

They have had the data for yonks but have chosen to drip feed it and are still drip feeding it. What a surprise, that in being "even handed" they got the Tories last week but this week (election week) they are getting Labour. And I would put my bottom dollar that tomorrow on the day of the election, they will parade a Lib Dem.

The Telegraph's handling of the crisis for their own commercial gain has been a disgrace and weeks after the affair begain, all MPs are wondering whether a stray Mars bar is going to be a Telegraph headline tomorrow. I am not defending the MPs or the Labour Goverment but it is ludicrous that the country's governance is being paralysed by a newspaper's editorial policy of spinning out a story ad nauseum for its own commercial benefit.

The reality is that some MPs have been committing fraud.

Live by the sword and die by the sword. Nothing new here Gunner. The power of the press was demonstrated by the Sun in previous elections by influencing the knuckle dragging hordes to vote first Tory in the 80's then in 97 New Labour.

If MP's have been committing fraud can we expect fraud charges brought by the police?

[philipl]

Agree with you jim.

Torygraph rakes in the profits and to hell with the country.

Literally

[Flopsy]

1) Jim, none of the things mentioned were actually illegal, the flipping of second homes is. Kirkbride has rightly had a kicking for how her and her husband have acted. Balls and Cooper have been worse. Not saying that the tories are blameless, but i challenge anyone here to say honestly that if their company allowed them to claim for all this stuff, that they wouldnt.

2) Cameron and Clegg have shown leadership and decisiveness, Brown has shown he has neither.

3) The only hope for this country is for Labour to be given such a shoeing that it has to call a General Election, to allow us mere citizens to habe our say on how we want our country to be run. If Labour is the right party then they need to show that they have a clue on what to do.

[Tris]

MPs rake in the profits and to hell with the country.

Literally

There - I've corrected it for you.

The order in which a single newspaper (read by less than 2% of the population) has exposed this will have nothing to do with the election result this week.

The staggering incompetence of Gordon Brown is what will lead to the record slaughtering of his party. As I posted on Monday, for sure the other main two will take a bruising as well, and they deserve to.

But all this has happened on Brown's watch - that coupled with the continuing blind hypocrisy of the Labour leadership and party - so brilliantly illustrated by jim on these pages - will bring them down.

[thenodrog]

There - I've corrected it for you.

The order in which a single newspaper (read by less than 2% of the population) has exposed this will have nothing to do with the election result this week.

The staggering incompetence of Gordon Brown is what will lead to the record slaughtering of his party. As I posted on Monday, for sure the other main two will take a bruising as well, and they deserve to.

But all this has happened on Brown's watch - that coupled with the continuing blind hypocrisy of the Labour leadership and party - so brilliantly illustrated by jim on these pages - will bring them down.

The grinning wicked witch of Salford Hazel Blears has just resigned and in doing so stuck her boot into Brown at the worst possible time for the Labour party for him quite rightly not supporting her attempts to defraud the taxpayer to the tune of £13000 in unpaid capital gains tax on her home.

Blears is a typical example of how a personal shennanigins comes before loyalty to the labour party and worse still the good of the country.

Jimski to defend Blears or Jimski to defend Brown...... which dead horse will he be flogging over this latest embarrassment?

[Tris]

The expenses crisis is vastly exacerbated by the Telegraph.

They have had the data for yonks but have chosen to drip feed it and are still drip feeding it. What a surprise, that in being "even handed" they got the Tories last week but this week (election week) they are getting Labour.

{ ... }is ludicrous that the country's governance is being paralysed by a newspaper's editorial policy of spinning out a story

Labour are getting themselves!! Or has Blears shafted the Great Leader just in order to join the Telegraph conspiracy

90 minutes before PMQs the day before an election - what a time to put the boot in

[RibbleValleyRover]

Did anyone watch PMQ's today?

When Crash Gordon was asked whether or not he would call an election he said he wouldn't because the Conservatives have no policies. Correct me if I’m wrong but surely if your opposition doesn't have any policies or substance that’s the best time to call an election.

[broadsword]

He didn't even have the balls to call an election when he was riding high in the polls, was it 2 years ago?

If he'd gone to teh country then, at least he'd have more time to get himself out of this mess now.

But he is a disaster of a PM. Really really bad.

[Billy Castell]

The voters will run away from Labour in their droves. If their collapse keeps up this speed, they'd be fighting the Lib Dems for 2nd place.

[thenodrog]

It must really be eating Brown alive to know that he will be remembered in the history books as Britains worst ever Prime Minister, especially given all the guff about his ambition and destiny that we were force fed whilst he was waiting in the wings for Teflon Tony to clear off.

To realise that the culmination of his life's work has been an utter and total failure and that he will be a social dead duck unlike the hated Teflon Tony will ruin his life until his dying day. But thats always up to him and him alone, he should have not turned yellow belly and chickened out of that election a couple of years back.

Oh well never mind eh?

[Flopsy]

He didn't even have the balls to call an election when he was riding high in the polls, was it 2 years ago?

If he'd gone to teh country then, at least he'd have more time to get himself out of this mess now.

But he is a disaster of a PM. Really really bad.

He'd have a mandate from the electorate, something else that would be in his favour at present

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Its quite bewildering how according to the latest polls 18-20% of pollsters will still intend to vote Labour.

As for Jim; he is simply Trolling. No-one is idiotic enough to truly believe, that somehow the Tories should be apportioned 100% of the expenses blame and the whiter that white Labour party have come out of this rather well.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Sky News have got their hands on an email thats being circulated among Labour MPs in order to get enough support to encourage Brown to step down:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/...PM_To_Step_Down

[Ewood Spark]

Its quite bewildering how according to the latest polls 18-20% of pollsters will still intend to vote Labour.

No ... what is more amazing to me is that people actually change their political allegiance ... are people really that shallow? Surely it's the ideology that people should vote for rather than the personalities of the temporary incumbents. To draw parallels with the world of football .. it doesn't matter where BRFC find themselves in the coming years ... I am ... and always will be .... proud to be a Rover ... it's part of my DNA. And so with politics ... I am ... and always will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

[jim mk2]

No ...will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

Good lad ; now who on here is actually going to admit voting for the Tory party ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

No ... what is more amazing to me is that people actually change their political allegiance ... are people really that shallow? Surely it's the ideology that people should vote for rather than the personalities of the temporary incumbents. To draw parallels with the world of football .. it doesn't matter where BRFC find themselves in the coming years ... I am ... and always will be .... proud to be a Rover ... it's part of my DNA. And so with politics ... I am ... and always will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

Me too. I just wish I had a socialist party to vote for.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

... I am ... and always will be .... proud to be a Rover ... it's part of my DNA. And so with politics ... I am ... and always will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

But the Labour party stopped been a "socialist" party when it became New labour. New Labour is basically a botched attempt at Thatcherism & in many ways has created a far less equal society that the Tories did. The pricing out of working class students attending university and the latest piece of research- indicating that Britain’s society is less equal in 2009 that when New Labour came into power in 1997 are just two examples.

As for your logic of ‘having’ to vote for Labour due to your ideology. I pose you a question; if Stalin was the leader of a “socialist” Labour party- would you still vote Labour? (completely theoretical as Stalin would obviously abolish voting)

[Ewood Spark]

But the Labour party stopped been a "socialist" party when it became New labour. New Labour is basically a botched attempt at Thatcherism & in many ways has created a far less equal society that the Tories did. The pricing out of working class students attending university and the latest piece of research- indicating that Britain’s society is less equal in 2009 that when New Labour came into power in 1997 are just two examples.

As for your logic of ‘having’ to vote for Labour due to your ideology. I pose you a question; if Stalin was the leader of a “socialist” Labour party- would you still vote Labour? (completely theoretical as Stalin would obviously abolish voting)

You have answered the question for me. There would be as much chance of Nick Griffin joining and working his way up the ranks of the Labour Party as Stalin. That is the point ... the form of democratic socialism that we have in the UK may allow incompetence into it's ranks from time to time ... but very rarely .... if ever ... pure evil.

[pg]

The differences in idealogy between any major political party in an anglo-saxon country is about as wide as a single hair on my head.

[philipl]

Just a hunch but I think history might be kind to Soon to be ex-pm Brown.

There is a momentum in the States aided and abetted by Cheney going centre stage in the way no other retired Veep has done so early in a new administration that is going to strip the W presidency bare. The more that comes out the worse it will look for Blair as being utterly ineffectual and completely incapable of influencing Washington in times of crisis.

By contrast, and it is very early to judge the eventual outcome, the effective Keynesian response to the current economic crisis is pretty well 100% down to Brown showing global leadership and prevailing over the W administration in ways Blair didn't even begin to.

Ps the Telegraph have not run a Lib Dem expenses story this morning which had been my guess.

With the caveat that travel expenses have yet to be exposed in the Torygraph's long fan dance on material that has been in their posession for weeks now so is no longer news but news manipulation, the Lib Dems have come out looking relatively clean.

[Paul]

No ... what is more amazing to me is that people actually change their political allegiance ... are people really that shallow? Surely it's the ideology that people should vote for rather than the personalities of the temporary incumbents. To draw parallels with the world of football .. it doesn't matter where BRFC find themselves in the coming years ... I am ... and always will be .... proud to be a Rover ... it's part of my DNA. And so with politics ... I am ... and always will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

Exactly right. Those who chose to change from one election to another demonstrate their own shallowness. The Labour Party clearly has real problems and challenges ahead but does at least still have a fundamental belief in socialism. Equally the Conservative Party still retains it's fundamental beliefs and no matter how David Cameron tries to dress it up the party will not and cannot embrace real change.

I have real confusion over how I would now vote in a general election but today I will be supporting our local Labour candidate. A young man of 22 who has put in a tremendous amount of work locally, demonstrated committment to the community, brings youthful enthusiasm and has canvassed our area three times. We have yet to receive any other electoral material telling us who represents the other parties. How can one be expected to consider voting for a party that does not even tell the electorate the candidate's name?

The differences in idealogy between any major political party in an anglo-saxon country is about as wide as a single hair on my head.

With respect pg you would have to live in this country for a lot longer to appreciate the difference between the Conservative and Labour ideologies. I entirely agree there is much wrong with the present administration but one should never forget the Conservative party is primarily centred on the individual as opposed to society. A massive difference in my view.

[BuckyRover]

Look after the individual and society looks after itself.

Look after society and the individual loses out.

I like the balance Labour comes in with a socialist agenda then destroys the economy then Tories come in and repair it, ad infinitum.

Socialism only works in a boom.

A further point, I cannot believe the some of the olders posters in this topic. Vote for the same party all the time? That's not democracy. Democracy is about choice not a self enforced debt to a particular party. They change their policies like the wind. I am sure many of you think of Labour as the champion of the working classes and the unions and vote for them on this basis. You forget that this Labour supports ID cards and 40 days detention without charge, raided pensions schemes etc. etc.

This is not socialism.

But then again they did tax the wealth creators 50%! Socialism rules!!

[JC4LAB]

If you are running a business,which is better...a manager who fiddles a bit and does great trade for you or someone straight as a die but no customers...Perhaps the arguemnt in favour of politicians is one of.if they are good at their job what the hell if they do a bit of fiddling...A press lead campaign to sell more newspapers I would say

[pg]

With respect pg you would have to live in this country for a lot longer to appreciate the difference between the Conservative and Labour ideologies. I entirely agree there is much wrong with the present administration but one should never forget the Conservative party is primarily centred on the individual as opposed to society. A massive difference in my view.

I don't underestimate the historical chasm that used to exist between the Tories and Labour....however surely you'd agree that over the past two decades that chasm has now narrowed to a small brook.

The ideologies of the parties will change in order to get them elected. The parties will represent the establishment once they are in power.

New Labour is not the Labour of the 50's and 60's...likewise Cameron is not Margaret Thatcher.

[broadsword]

No ... what is more amazing to me is that people actually change their political allegiance ... are people really that shallow? Surely it's the ideology that people should vote for rather than the personalities of the temporary incumbents. To draw parallels with the world of football .. it doesn't matter where BRFC find themselves in the coming years ... I am ... and always will be .... proud to be a Rover ... it's part of my DNA. And so with politics ... I am ... and always will be ... proud to be a socialist ... it too is part of my DNA.

You might be a socialist ... but what are you doing supporting "New" Labour then?

They're about as socialist as Adnan Khashoggi.

this is why teh disaster that was New Labour got into power. some people would vote for a monkey if it wore a red rosette.