[Archived] Gordon Brown

[thenodrog]

Whilst far from enamoured with the performance of the Labour Party in government - certainly over the last 6 years - I also remember what a Conservative government actually means and don't want to go back to that heartless lot and pay 15% interest on my mortgage for the privilege of being led by a man who is the archetypal public school bully. Is there a viable alternative? And before anyone says LibDem, I said viable. In the meantime, maybe the pick of a bad bunch is the right solution - but please remember what a Conservative government was like before saying things like "they can't be any worse than Brown/Blair/Labour" - they can and were and I see no evidence they have learnt their lesson. The emperor has merely changed his clothes.

Are you starting some sort of myth about the Thatcher years? Mrs Thatcher did a sterling job in the main. The Unions were virtually controlling the country through the 70's. They could not be allowed to continue to rule the roost over any properly elected government so Margaret Thatcher took them on and defeated them without drawing breath. It was completely necessary at the time. It was a difficult situation that she faced and many unpalatable decisions had to be taken. The net result was over the next decade and more was a return to prosperity and a strong economy which New Labour were fortunate to inherit and made Teflon Tony's record appear impressive on the surface. My only gripe with the 80's was the beginning of the trend to abandon much of British industry to overseas suppliers. A trend that has continued under successive governments including Labour. Ironic really given the promises made to reverse Thatchers policies asap after they got in office. New Labours continuence of so many of Thatchers policies is I guess a huge and continuing compliment to the Iron Lady.

btw Inheriting a weak economy after irresponsible Labour governments appears to be becoming a continuing process for the other lot.

[RovertheHill]

Bring back "conviction politicians" who have a belief, try to persuade you of it and you can believe them if not always agree with them. At the same time, how about politicians with some life experience beyond the refectory?

Everyone seemed to think Blears was a conviction politician - widely praised across dividing lines - and look what her convictions really were - manipulating the expenses rules to basically line her own pockets. As a long-term labour supporter I'm afraid it's time for change - proportional representation is what's required.

[Guest Kamy100]

European Election results across Europe are indicating the centre and right wing parties have done really well.

[colin]

......They have increased taxes beyond belief and yet they still want to spend mor emoney on the wrong things.....

VAT and tax cuts are a gimmick, the money saved is recouped elsewhere.

Something not quite right there.

On a different note: Hazel Blears was once described by Sandy Tostvig as "Squirrel Nutkin." It's an image that simply won't go away for me.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

People tend to lean left and grow a social conscience when there's money flowing through the streets, but when the economy cycles back to recession and their own pockets are getting hurt, the natural instinct is to flee back to the right hand side of the fence.

[Kelbo]

Socialism only works in a boom.

Socialism cant work, ever, Mr Chelski himself, all the wealth from a Socialist Country!!!

People always want more, myself included, socialism wont ever work!!

As for Nutty Gordon, he should do the right thing and walk now, call a general election and whilst we are at it, lets get out of Europe and quickly!!

[tashor]

The man's an overprivileged prig who has little or nothing in common with Joe Normal.

Bring back "conviction politicians" who have a belief, try to persuade you of it and you can believe them if not always agree with them.

That's right - he's a posh @#/? so we must not vote for him = that's what democracy is all about

In my younger days I was regarded by most as a conviction idealist who should stand for Parliament - I always regarded myself as an intellectual gobshyte who had the advantage of an ordinary northern accent - which unfairly gave me an advantage amongst the mostly southern public school elite who were my contemporaries/inferiors.

Viva la revolution, eh........................

[Tris]

Conservatives have beaten Labour in Wales - not happened since 1918. Labour vote share in 1997 = 60%. Today = 20%. Extraordinary development.

Especially given the potential (at a General Election) for protest votes to transfer away from PC, UKIP, Greens, etc - to anyone but Labour.

[Drummer Boy]

Are you starting some sort of myth about the Thatcher years? Mrs Thatcher did a sterling job in the main. The Unions were virtually controlling the country through the 70's. They could not be allowed to continue to rule the roost over any properly elected government so Margaret Thatcher took them on and defeated them without drawing breath. It was completely necessary at the time. It was a difficult situation that she faced and many unpalatable decisions had to be taken. The net result was over the next decade and more was a return to prosperity and a strong economy which New Labour were fortunate to inherit and made Teflon Tony's record appear impressive on the surface. My only gripe with the 80's was the beginning of the trend to abandon much of British industry to overseas suppliers. A trend that has continued under successive governments including Labour. Ironic really given the promises made to reverse Thatchers policies asap after they got in office. New Labours continuence of so many of Thatchers policies is I guess a huge and continuing compliment to the Iron Lady.

btw Inheriting a weak economy after irresponsible Labour governments appears to be becoming a continuing process for the other lot.

As with most things in this world, nothing is black & white - not even politicians' expenses claims, and especially La Thatcher's record in office. I wouldn't argue with your assessment of the need to tackle the trades unions and also felt she was good on Defence matters and standing our corner in Europe. I would argue with her record on the economy which although helped by the much-reduced impact of industrial unrest was also aided and abetted by the unfettered flogging of the national asset base - the water board, the other utilities, telecom, BP etc etc - I remember Harold MacMillan's maiden speech in the House of Lords making reference to selling off the family silverware so that it can never be used for the common good again. Now, you can point to some privatisations that were undoubtedly the correct thing to do - aerospace for example - the point remains to me that the apparent economic prudence was a sham that ended up with overseas companies taking advantage of our commitment to free trade whilst they were protected from our companies doing likewise overseas.

I would also argue she did very little to help sustain the NHS or state education, quite the reverse

Regardless of the above, and more to the point, at least you knew where you stood with Thatcher - if she said something you knew she believed it and would not change just to secure your vote. She also had embarked on a career as an industrial chemist so had some experience to draw upon that meant she could perhaps relate to the electorate better than the modern professional politicians.

[Paul Mellelieu]

65 years after D-Day, we elect Nazis to the EU.

[joey_big_nose]

Whilst far from enamoured with the performance of the Labour Party in government - certainly over the last 6 years - I also remember what a Conservative government actually means and don't want to go back to that heartless lot and pay 15% interest on my mortgage for the privilege of being led by a man who is the archetypal public school bully. Is there a viable alternative? And before anyone says LibDem, I said viable. In the meantime, maybe the pick of a bad bunch is the right solution - but please remember what a Conservative government was like before saying things like "they can't be any worse than Brown/Blair/Labour" - they can and were and I see no evidence they have learnt their lesson. The emperor has merely changed his clothes.

Broadly speaking I am a Labour/Lib Dem voter, but to be honest I am not really sure why anyone in my position has a problem with David Cameron. He is basically going to run the country as Blair did. Not an iota of difference.

Can anyone think of a single thing that Cameron is likely to do different from Blair? I literally cannot, beyond a general tightening in sepnding that has to happen anyway due to the economic situation. I am happy to be educated if people feel differently.

The basic fact of it is that people are - despite the gnashing of teeth at the moment about expenses and the recessiton etc - broadly in consensus about how the country should be run. Maybe some constitutional reform (PR? That would be interesting. And an elected HoL) and a reduction in immigration. But no one is really interested in much else. Just want to come out of the recession alive and get on with things. Completely unlike 79 (massive change of agenda in british government) and, to a much lesser degree 97 (devolution, reaffirmation of government spending etc.)

What is actually at stake here? Very little in my eyes.

[Tris]

65 years after D-Day, we elect Nazis to the EU.

Possibly the most damaging legacy of Gordon Brown's abysmal spell as PM - and chancellor.

He must go, and go now.

[Tris]

So, to sum up

Gordon Brown is a survivor. The toaster's not even plugged in yet.

UKIP - with a previous MEP in jail and another one on trial, and stripped of the Kilroy-Silk TV factor - have stuffed Labour into 3rd place.

This is no longer about one man surviving. It's about the legitimacy of politics. The man who was never elected has dragged Labour to their lowest ever position since the party emerged.

Your analysis please jim.

[broadsword]

Cameron bullies his own people and anyone who dares to have a different view - just listen to him next time he's on telly. The man's an overprivileged prig who has little or nothing in common with Joe Normal and will say or do whatever he has to do to get into power regardless of his beliefs.

Bit ;like Tony Blair then.

[thenodrog]

65 years after D-Day, we elect Nazis to the EU.

Interesting and very revealing pictures as Nick Griffin stood up to make his acceptance speech. The defeated candidates all walked off in some obviously pre-arranged, churlish and very ill advised statement against the BNP. THE OVERIDING IMPRESSION AS THEY FILED OFF WAS THAT IT WAS NOT A STATEMENT AGAINST THE BNP AS MUCH AS A STATEMENT AGAINST THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS AND THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE . The usual error made by very many politicians that 'we know better than Joe Public'. They should never be allowed to stand again until they at least apologise to the electorate if not to Griffin himself.

How does that square with you Paul?

[Paul Mellelieu]

Interesting and very revealing pictures as Nick Griffin stood up to make his acceptance speech. The defeated candidates all walked off in some obviously pre-arranged, churlish and very ill advised statement against the BNP. THE OVERIDING IMPRESSSION AS THEY FILED OFF WAS THAT IT WAS NOT A STATEMENT AGAINST THE BNP AS MUCH AS A STATEMENT AGAINST THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS AND THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE. The usual error made by very many politicians that 'we know better than Joe Public'. They should never be allowed to stand again until they at least apologise to the electorate if not to Griffin himself.

How does that square with you Paul?

How does electing a Nazi square with you? A bit more important than a walk out at an election count. I'd have done the same.

[thenodrog]

How does electing a Nazi square with you? A bit more important than a walk out at an election count. I'd have done the same.

He's BNP not nazi. It doesn't leave me feeling anything one way or the other except the truism that people usually turn to minority parties when the main ones have let them down. If you had done the same then you are a very weak minded individual.

I first voted in 1972 and a walk through Blackburn in 2009 will illustrate my point perfectly. How much things should have been better we can only speculate but there can be no doubt that in the past 40 years Blackburn and it's citizens have been let down by Labour AND albeit to a lesser extent the Tories too. Course it doesn't really matter the same to you living in Manchester does it?

[philipl]

The interview on Sky showed that Griffin is a Nazi.

[ABBEY]

How does electing a Nazi square with you? A bit more important than a walk out at an election count. I'd have done the same.

not saying if its right or wrong but the PEOPLE VOTED for him .As for walking out ,well how childish can you get ,shows polittical (typo or not) people are self centred dummy and toy chuchkers.

[thenodrog]

The interview on Sky showed that Griffin is a Nazi.

Really? Did he give a salute or was he wearing the emblem on his sleeve?

[Paul Mellelieu]

Really? Did he give a salute or was he wearing the emblem on his sleeve?

Do you really think that Griffin is not a Nazi? A casual search of the 'net beyond you?

How about this? http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.p...l-fascist-rally

Or this? http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp...ick-Griffin.php

not saying if its right or wrong but the PEOPLE VOTED for him .As for walking out ,well how childish can you get ,shows polittical (typo or not) people are self centred dummy and toy chuchkers.

I don't care to be lectured by Nick Nazi Griffin.

[ABBEY]

I don't care to be lectured by Nick Nazi Griffin.

so in fact you dont care about democracy then?

[Paul Mellelieu]

so in fact you dont care about democracy then?

Eh?

[jim mk2]

The interview on Sky showed that Griffin is a Nazi.

Careful Philip, you're insulting Gordon's party.

Very good of him finally to come out one of his 5 closets though.

[broadsword]

This sends out a powerful message - the mainstream parties need to stand for something and not be chamaeleon's trying to be what they think the public wants them to be.

Labour's just in so much trouble now. Their vote has collapsed and they're adrift without any cohesive policy communicated to the electorate. It's created a void in UK politics and that is dangerous.